Unreleased Iraq Prison Photos Show Rape, Sexual Abuse

Seriously, enough. Water Boarding is torture, it was used very rarely but stop acting like the troops who did the crap at Abu or any other place did so on orders. Stop comparing water boarding to what the AQ and Taliban do to their own, to our people if they get caught or even their women for nothing more than being a woman, moral relativism is sign of intellectual weakness and lack of courage. What this is really about for a lot of the people barking on here is that they want Bush and Cheney up on some charge that they think they can get, won't work, sorry, never gonna happen. You can kick the dead horse all you want, cry at the sky, bark at the moon, whatever, but they are NEVER going to taken up on charges. This happens in every war we have ever had, there was even a small movement to have Kissenger up on War Crimes Charges over Vietnam, guess what? Did not and will not happen.
These pics are related to crimes that have already been adjudicated, they are old news and the ONLY purpose to release them is to inflame passions for or against the war, nothing to do with "truth" or "transparency", if that were the case then the ACLU and the barkers on here would be demanding the transcripts from the investigations, the notes from the interviews and of course the Court Transcripts, but are they? No, of course they are not demanding these things, pictures are far more valuable in a PR campaign. It is not hard to see what many of the posters on here truly want and it is not the truth, heck, we have some 9-11 Truth Whackos getting in here! What do they want but more fodder for their fantasy world! lol!
The guys & girls involved with the pics have gone to trial, have or are being punished and that is how it should be, the only people who "got away with something" in this mess are some of the senior and mid-grade officers, they were not held accountable like they should be, it has more to do with the culture of the Army Officer Corps than it does anything else. If you folks want some kind of "closure" over this mess, ask for harsher terms against the CoC involved but outside of that, a lot of people are just on here to vent some kind of anger over things that are off topic, mostly against the past administration, some against "white" people as one poster laid it out, some against the "plot" on 9-11, one against the military, etc..etc..but for the most part, it is against the past administration. Hey, not many of us are happy about what they did to the economy, how they went about running the war or even some there spending but some of you folks need to let go of some kind of strange anger you hold onto. They will not have these guys go to trial nor should they, it would cause a huge ball of problems for any future President in the realm of Foreign Policy and we do not (and SHOULD NEVER!!) belong to the ICC, so it is not going to happen. If you want to vent, fine, vent but stop the attempts at hiding behind pursuits of the truth, intellectual curiousness or whatever BS you are hiding behind and just vent and be honest, otherwise, shut up.

random wrote:

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But we do! Sexual assault is as American as apple pie.

That's what I thought at first too. I thought that these young men had been brought up during the age of rampant pornography. I thought that was why they were so sexually abusive. But then I heard about the book "The Arab Mind" that was required reading by the Cheney administration. This simplistic book tells about how Arab men could be compromised sexually to betray information. But to be compromised there must be proof for their relatives - hence all the picture taking. There was also video with sound. If these soldiers were simply perverse they would have done their abuse in hiding. But not only did they do it amongst other soldiers, but they photographed it all. Why would a soldier have another soldier photograph him raping an iraqi woman if he did not think he would not be held accountable?

Plain Jane wrote:

<quoted text>
I was going to college and kept busy writing letters and sending care packages to my fiance, later my husband, who served 18 months in Vietnam and who died from agent orange caused cancer you worthless piece of trash talking garbage.

No need to insult Jane. You just sound like a liberal war protester. Sorry about the death of your husband.

Done That wrote:

<quoted text>The legislature makes law not the courts. The court didn't change the Geneva convention. They said the detainees had the right to petition the court. How about it Jane were you a hippy war protester?

You functionally illiterate trash talking cretin. I didn't say they make the laws. I said they are the final arbiter of the laws. They determine if laws which congress passes are constitutional and overrule those which are. I never said they could change the Geneva Conventions. They didn't try to. They said all prisoners held by the US are covered by the Geneva Conventions. The GC requires that ALL detained people be treated as POW's until they have been tried. Our own laws prohibit ANY US official from torture for any reason regardless which country they are in, the nationality or status of the prisoner. That has been the law since Bush the First signed UN CAT decades ago. Our Military Code of Justice ALSO makes torture of ANYONE a crime. That is why so many officers in military intelligence refused to participate and a large reason why Miller, who had no intelligence experience, no interrogation experience and no prison experience, was put in charge at GITMO and why he was transferred to Iraq. If you took a few minutes to educate yourself you would see the clear evidence that Rumsfeld ORDERED the mistreatment of prisoners (who even Bush admitted were fully entitled to GC protections as civilians under occupation) at Abu Ghraib and then let the unimportant minions take the fall for it. The memos are shown on the video:

http://torturingdemocracy.org/

NurseSherry39 wrote:

Not that I believe in torture or rape, but does anyone think those men give a damn about life, no, they don't, they are the ones who where in on or planned the 9/11 attacks. I am outraged that Obama wants to close the prison and put these freaks out in our prisons'. These are the same men who would think nothing of slicing off your neck like a ham or doing a suicide bombing to kill innocent Americans, or flying an airplane into a building, killing innocent Americans. So, before people start crying over these people, start thinking about all the innocent Americans' killed because of these lunatics!!!!!!!!!!

Think of all the innocent Iraqis killed because of us.

Now I'm going to a barbecue and will try not to think about the idiots who live in my country and those like soldier Stratton who are in our military without a clue what our country even stands for.

Plain Jane wrote:

<quoted text>
What about all the innocent people who were turned in for bribes in Afghanistan and Pakistan? What about the THOUSANDS of Iraqis who were arrested on suspicion and tortured in Abu Ghraib? You know, those people who Bush swore were protected by the Geneva Conventions? You remember...those people we went to war to save from the savagery of Saddam? Those people who Rumsfeld ordered to be treated harshly when he transferred Miller from GITMO to Abu Ghraib to "GITMOIZE" Abu Ghraib who were (coincidentally) were abused by the same exact methods that Miller instituted in GITMO, using dogs, putting leashes on them and sexually humiliating them?
See http://torturingdemocracy.org/

Yes the poor innocent boy who killed 12 people in the red cross. 1 out of 7 terrorist who have been released from Gitmo have resumed terrorism. You want to compare putting panties on there head to Saddam? You sure sound like that anti war hippy again. How do you feel about Obama continueing rendition or do you just hate torture when a Republican is in the white house. You said all the EIT were torture but Obama just stopped waterboarding. Using your definition Obama is torturing those innocent kids:)

NurseSherry39 wrote:

<quoted text>
AMERICANS ARE THE GOOD GUYS, Al Queda are demented devils. If you don't like America, then get the hell out, no one wants you here, you are probably one of those middle Eastern lunatics that would slice someones' head off like you would slice a ham. GOD DOES BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!

thats why they rape ang kill young girls in iraq huh? dumb ass.

Plain Jane wrote:

<quoted text>
You functionally illiterate trash talking cretin. I didn't say they make the laws. I said they are the final arbiter of the laws. They determine if laws which congress passes are constitutional and overrule those which are. I never said they could change the Geneva Conventions. They didn't try to. They said all prisoners held by the US are covered by the Geneva Conventions. The GC requires that ALL detained people be treated as POW's until they have been tried. Our own laws prohibit ANY US official from torture for any reason regardless which country they are in, the nationality or status of the prisoner. That has been the law since Bush the First signed UN CAT decades ago. Our Military Code of Justice ALSO makes torture of ANYONE a crime. That is why so many officers in military intelligence refused to participate and a large reason why Miller, who had no intelligence experience, no interrogation experience and no prison experience, was put in charge at GITMO and why he was transferred to Iraq. If you took a few minutes to educate yourself you would see the clear evidence that Rumsfeld ORDERED the mistreatment of prisoners (who even Bush admitted were fully entitled to GC protections as civilians under occupation) at Abu Ghraib and then let the unimportant minions take the fall for it. The memos are shown on the video:
http://torturingdemocracy.org/

The terrorist in Abu Ghraib wore no uniforms and fought for no country. The were illegal combatants and prohibited from coverage by the Geneva convention. Those weren't little church boys they were killers. I cry more for the death of the 12 red cross workers than the death of their killer

Plain Jane wrote:

Now I'm going to a barbecue and will try not to think about the idiots who live in my country and those like soldier Stratton who are in our military without a clue what our country even stands for.

Well don't spoil everyone's dinner with the liberal trash talk about those poor victims of abuse

Plain Jane wrote:

<quoted text>
You functionally illiterate trash talking cretin. I didn't say they make the laws. I said they are the final arbiter of the laws. They determine if laws which congress passes are constitutional and overrule those which are. I never said they could change the Geneva Conventions. They didn't try to. They said all prisoners held by the US are covered by the Geneva Conventions. The GC requires that ALL detained people be treated as POWs until they have been tried. Our own laws prohibit ANY US official from torture for any reason regardless which country they are in, the nationality or status of the prisoner. That has been the law since Bush the First signed UN CAT decades ago. Our Military Code of Justice ALSO makes torture of ANYONE a crime. That is why so many officers in military intelligence refused to participate and a large reason why Miller, who had no intelligence experience, no interrogation experience and no prison experience, was put in charge at GITMO and why he was transferred to Iraq. If you took a few minutes to educate yourself you would see the clear evidence that Rumsfeld ORDERED the mistreatment of prisoners (who even Bush admitted were fully entitled to GC protections as civilians under occupation) at Abu Ghraib and then let the unimportant minions take the fall for it. The memos are shown on the video:
http://torturingdemocracy.org/

Jane, give us all some suggestions of how to get information from people/ countries trying to kill us.
You act like a Monday morning quarterback. Always ready to criticize yet offer no solutions.

All you say is "we need to stay within the law". So, by staying withing the law, tell us what to do to get this information.

darkmoon wrote:

<quoted text>And Obama is doing a better job by taxing this generation and the next 3 or 4 generations in order to pay AIG, GM, etc. I am surprised he did not bail out Bernie Maddoff. That is your tax dollars and mine and possibly as far as our great grandchildren or further. Proud of the transparent one?

Who left this enormous debt to require bailing out virtually everyone? This problem did not occur the day after Obama took office. It was 8 years in the making, that retard Bush was left with a surplus.

falasha wrote:

<quoted text>
That's what I thought at first too. I thought that these young men had been brought up during the age of rampant pornography. I thought that was why they were so sexually abusive. But then I heard about the book "The Arab Mind" that was required reading by the Cheney administration. This simplistic book tells about how Arab men could be compromised sexually to betray information. But to be compromised there must be proof for their relatives - hence all the picture taking. There was also video with sound. If these soldiers were simply perverse they would have done their abuse in hiding. But not only did they do it amongst other soldiers, but they photographed it all. Why would a soldier have another soldier photograph him raping an iraqi woman if he did not think he would not be held accountable?

Maybe just a photograph to look back on good times? Perhaps just a typical abuse of power, probably thinking that the government had their back and they were free to do as they pleased.

I haven't been follow this argument, are you saying that they were following orders, or simply trying out their own little "enhanced interrogation" techniques?

And how do you know there was video?

Lawrence Wolf wrote:

<quoted text>And your irrelevant statement, which is supposed to excuse the savage acts committed by some our people, makes me sick. And, in case you have been hibernating with Rip Van Winkle, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
The American people should be forced to get the full picture of the horrors of war. It can turn ordinary human beings into crazed killers, rapists, and torturers. Committing sub-human acts is part and parcel of the terrorist philosophy. We are supposed to be better than that, and we usually are. But horrors committed by our own military cannot be excused by citing the unspeakable acts the enemy want to wreak on us. When we say okay to such savagery, no matter who commits it, we lose our humanity.

i really cant believe you and others like you are so blind.if you people really believe that the u.s. military is a bunch of boy scouts out to right every wrong and play the hero in every war you are truly out of touch with reality,these sort of things happen in every war by every nation including us i'm not saying it's right it just happens it's part of war and believe it or not it is a usefull tactic as well it intimidates your enemy and its civilian population and again every nation since the begining of wars has done it,so what are we to do now release these pics and hold just the u.s. responsible?thats absurd! when our enemies are even worse about it than we are the goal in a war is to win and you cant win a war aginst your dirty low life enemy by trying to act like dudly doright and like it or not that is a fact you have to fight fire with fire.

opinon depot wrote:

<quoted text>i really cant believe you and others like you are so blind.if you people really believe that the u.s. military is a bunch of boy scouts out to right every wrong and play the hero in every war you are truly out of touch with reality,these sort of things happen in every war by every nation including us i'm not saying it's right it just happens it's part of war and believe it or not it is a usefull tactic as well it intimidates your enemy and its civilian population and again every nation since the begining of wars has done it,so what are we to do now release these pics and hold just the u.s. responsible?thats absurd! when our enemies are even worse about it than we are the goal in a war is to win and you cant win a war aginst your dirty low life enemy by trying to act like dudly doright and like it or not that is a fact you have to fight fire with fire.

So you're saying if there is going to be a war, someone has to be sodomized and tortured?

Hail Obama wrote:

<quoted text>
Jane, give us all some suggestions of how to get information from people/ countries trying to kill us.
You act like a Monday morning quarterback. Always ready to criticize yet offer no solutions.
All you say is "we need to stay within the law". So, by staying withing the law, tell us what to do to get this information.

great reply hail obama, i wish plain jane and others like her would open thier eyes to the fact that you cant win a war by the book, you have to do what you have to do and in the end it saves lives by shorting the war. to bad iraq & afganistan have went on this long i can only imagine what things would be like now if we were over there knocking on doors being mr. nice guy and trying to obtain intel with a smile on our face and a bottled water in our hand with shorts and sun glasses on.i guess thats what all these people that have never been in action believe, maybe they should do a tour over there and we'll see what they say when /if they make it back

Dummer wrote:

<quoted text> thats why they rape ang kill young girls in iraq huh? dumb ass.

So 1 soldier doing that and you want to condemn the entire military?! I have a lot of friends who lay down their lives and have died defending our freedoms. If you don't appreciate their sacrifices please feel to do us all a favor and take the next plane out of the USA!!!

Yahweh wrote:

<quoted text>
Who left this enormous debt to require bailing out virtually everyone? This problem did not occur the day after Obama took office. It was 8 years in the making, that retard Bush was left with a surplus.

i'm not trying to speak for dark moon but i believe he/she was refering to the way it's being handled at least i would believe it anyway,and i agree it's not being handled right. personally i believe we could save a bunch of tax dollars by writing a nice sized check to every tax paying person in this nation with the agreement that all of thier debt secured or unsecured be paid if they dont they go to jail for a long time, but if we all did we would free up all kinds of credit and we as a nation would do what we do best and that is spend and if that dont turn an economy around then nothing will,and it would be a whole lot cheaper than this absurd amount that our great grandchildren wont even pay off during thier life time.btw i do blame bush as well for this massive screw up

Plain Jane wrote:

Now I'm going to a barbecue and will try not to think about the idiots who live in my country and those like soldier Stratton who are in our military without a clue what our country even stands for.

How about you go to a barbecue with all the terrorists who want to kill Americans and get all the information we are going about the wrong way of getting for us. If you make it back alive that is!! At least that will be one less idiot in our country for you to worry about =).

random wrote:

<quoted text>
So you're saying if there is going to be a war, someone has to be sodomized and tortured?

yes, in this war anyway. do you know how mid east culture feels about these sort of things?it is a discrace to them and thier faimlies. that is a great way to make them talk and provide us with information. so again yes i say stick it up thier ass it is an effective tactic of war as dirty as it sounds.war is not a day in the park it's a dirty thing and you have to use every available means to defeat your enemy