House votes strict ban on abortion subsidies

Sure...till it gets in front of an activist judge.

Evilution wrote:

Sure...till it gets in front of an activist judge.

Didn't you see the exchange today between Boehner and Rangel? The Democrats plan on adding that back in today....in private.

the_truth_be_told2006 wrote:

<quoted text>
Didn't you see the exchange today between Boehner and Rangel? The Democrats plan on adding that back in today....in private.

Didn't see it,not surprised.

I'm pretty sure the level of 'add on's' will be staggering.Wait til the 2nd Amendmend becomes a 'health issue'.

The vote was all but unanimous. They feel good, but there is no accountability. They have bounced the conflict up to the Senate. This media event is like a ball, the "R" and "D" camps want to look separate and different. The Parties are of the same skin, this was revealed in the last ballot, NY23 was a moment when the balloon exploded. The 'Snowe' vote in the H. of R. provided coverage, I guess this is the new pretty face on the Washington party scene.

“Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.”
“On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.”
“Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.”
“Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.”
“Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs.”

Many doctors say healthcare reform adds to already-burdensome paperwork requirements, while failing to implement the tort reforms needed to reduce liability premiums and reduce spiraling medical costs. They add that Obamacare won't eliminate the unnecessary procedures that doctors feel they must perform merely to minimize the chances of malpractice litigation – the practice of so-called "defensive medicine."

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/ama_health...

the_truth_be_told2006 wrote:

<quoted text>
Didn't you see the exchange today between Boehner and Rangel? The Democrats plan on adding that back in today....in private.

Yep. The abortion language and the illegal immigrant language will be stripped from the bill.

Lets see if they update the posted version of the bill before the final vote.

They should.

Obama promised transparency.

community idiot wrote:

Many doctors say healthcare reform adds to already-burdensome paperwork requirements, while failing to implement the tort reforms needed to reduce liability premiums and reduce spiraling medical costs. They add that Obamacare won't eliminate the unnecessary procedures that doctors feel they must perform merely to minimize the chances of malpractice litigation – the practice of so-called "defensive medicine."
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/ama_health...

Perhaps you missed the statement from the AMA?

“On balance, H.R. 3962, The Affordable Health Care for America Act, is consistent with our principles of pluralism, freedom of choice, freedom of physician practice and universal access. It will significantly expand health insurance coverage to Americans to empower patient and physician decision making; institute meaningful insurance market reforms; make substantial investments in quality; institute prevention and wellness initiatives; provide incentives to states that adopt certificate of merit and/or early offer liability reforms, and reduce administrative burdens.”
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system...

C Hamilton wrote:

<quoted text>Perhaps you missed the statement from the AMA?
“On balance, H.R. 3962, The Affordable Health Care for America Act, is consistent with our principles of pluralism, freedom of choice, freedom of physician practice and universal access. It will significantly expand health insurance coverage to Americans to empower patient and physician decision making; institute meaningful insurance market reforms; make substantial investments in quality; institute prevention and wellness initiatives; provide incentives to states that adopt certificate of merit and/or early offer liability reforms, and reduce administrative burdens.”
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system...

The AMA owns and profits from the use of CPT codes.
give 30 more people health insurance and that's hundreds of millions more uses of the codes.

They stand to make a ton of money from this bill.
It's no surprise they are backing it.

Don't worry, it's in there.

Some one needs to put this in front of a judge... I can't believe most of the shit in this legislation is constitutional.

Evilution wrote:

Sure...till it gets in front of an activist judge.

Eron wrote:

Some one needs to put this in front of a judge... I can't believe most of the shit in this legislation is constitutional.
<quoted text>

Until it becomes law there isn't much that can be done.
If, and thats a big if, But IF H.R.3962 is signed by Obama then the legal challenges will start.

There would also be the possibility of repeal if,(Another big if)the dems lose enough seats in the 2010 elections.

This is NOT over.

Not by a long shot.

So now it matters.
When does life begin?

BobbySomers wrote:

<quoted text>The AMA owns and profits from the use of CPT codes.
give 30 more people health insurance and that's hundreds of millions more uses of the codes.
They stand to make a ton of money from this bill.
It's no surprise they are backing it.

The AARP is also backing it. They will profit how?

BobbySomers wrote:

<quoted text>The AMA owns and profits from the use of CPT codes.
give 30 more people health insurance and that's hundreds of millions more uses of the codes.
They stand to make a ton of money from this bill.
It's no surprise they are backing it.

DO they profit from each use, or by the sale of the manuals and software to each doctor explaining them, which would be a one time fee?

Eron wrote:

Some one needs to put this in front of a judge... I can't believe most of the shit in this legislation is constitutional.
<quoted text>

If you frame "constitutional" like a legal fundamentalist, straining to be true to what white male Protestants in 1786 would think, probably not.

But most every law school and law professor has moved beyond that, and most lawyers don't think that way. It's a quaint set of beliefs peddled on talk radio and right wing outlets, but nowhere near the mainstream of 2009 America.

Where's your law degree from? Forcing people to buy a product or creating a criminal class out of the people who don't buy it is in no way shape a good idea; nor is that belief exclusive to our eighteenth century founders.

How would you like it if the government forced you to buy a gun and defend yourself. If your neighbor couldn't afford a gun, you had to subsidize it.

PooPoo Platter wrote:

<quoted text>
If you frame "constitutional" like a legal fundamentalist, straining to be true to what white male Protestants in 1786 would think, probably not.
But most every law school and law professor has moved beyond that, and most lawyers don't think that way. It's a quaint set of beliefs peddled on talk radio and right wing outlets, but nowhere near the mainstream of 2009 America.

Eron wrote:

Where's your law degree from? Forcing people to buy a product or creating a criminal class out of the people who don't buy it is in no way shape a good idea;

Really? I assume you're also against your state's requirement of mandatory auto insurance?

Eron wrote:

Where's your law degree from? Forcing people to buy a product or creating a criminal class out of the people who don't buy it is in no way shape a good idea; nor is that belief exclusive to our eighteenth century founders.
How would you like it if the government forced you to buy a gun and defend yourself. If your neighbor couldn't afford a gun, you had to subsidize it.
<quoted text>

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you drive a car,doesn't the law require you to have insurance? Damn them people forcing us to buy insurance..(smirk)

On 17 October 2009, Madrid became the Capital of Life for several hours, when over 1.5 million people gathered to protest the new abortion bill that Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and the socialists want to approve in the Congress.

Many aspects make this march noteworthy. The first is the unity displayed. More than 40 pro-life groups from the whole of Spain coordinated this march to send a message to the Spanish government that a very large portion of society disagreed with this new law. These same pro-life groups have opposed every abortion since 1985, when the previous socialist administration first legalized abortion in Spain.

Secondly, the 1.5 million protestors send a strong message that public opinion is firmly against abortion. The protesters constitute more than 3% of Spain's 48 million citizens, all gathered in the capital to make a stand for Life. Consider the results of a poll by the Spanish Family Forum, which show that only 21% of Spaniards condone unrestricted abortion, while 27% seek a full abortion ban, and 50% personally oppose abortion but think it should be allowed in certain cases. This reinforces the findings of PRI's own public opinion studies: the media battle has been lost by President Zapatero and his Socialist Party.

But the public outcry against abortion alone does not constitute reform. Many times we in the pro-life movement have thought that getting public opinion on our side would be sufficient to effect real change. This is not the case. Only 24 hours after the Madrid march, representatives of the Socialist Party in Congress spoke of continuing with the bill, regardless of the outcry, and sadly, they can force it if they choose. They have a majority due to an alliance with small portions of left-leaning representatives who have their own interest in the abortion bill. This new pro-life shift in popular opinion can't beat the mathematical advantage of the abortion axis in Congress.

However, this very crisis is causing many citizens to make the defense of life and family a central issue in the upcoming Spanish elections, who will not content themselves with simply voting for the "lesser evil." Over the next two and a half years leading up to the elections thfe Life issue will definitely be a defining one for politicians. Already, President Zapatero has become very unpopular with the Spanish people on account of his commitment to passing this abortion bill. Some analysts believe that the abortion issue will seriously hurt the Socialist Party in the next elections.