gundee123

Christian

Jesus never existed

Thank you for sharing these web links. I find them to be very interesting. But please know that you are coming from a faith-based perspective, whereas I am coming from an evidentiary perspective. And thus, we are going to see the issue differently, right (smile).  (Thursday Dec 17 | post #682)

Christian

Jesus never existed

I have absolutely no problem conceding that oxygen existed in Jesus’ day. And I have no problem asserting that gravity also existed in Jesus’ day. Thus, I do have a problem conceding that Jesus (or Peter) ever literally walked on water because of the laws of gravity, with all due respect (smileWell, “Did Tacitus ever mentioned the name “Jesus” in any of his secular writings. After all, the word “Christ” is not a name, but rather a title, right (smileThe bible also records that many bodies were raised from the dead and was seen by many (Mat 27:52-53). Now, “Do you suppose that these people went back home to their families,” and if so, “What do you suppose happened when the husband saw that his widow had remarried,” if you do not mind my asking? In fact, “Did any secular writer ever write anything about this “unbelievable” event,” if you do not mind my asking (smileYes, this is true for some people. However, there are others is simply do not accept all the supernatural claims about Jesus, in my humble opinion (smileOkay, you are speaking to what is known as “faith-based” truths. And according to Christian theology, it is the only truth. I, on the other hand, is speaking to what is known as “evidentiary” truths. Thus, we are discussing to completely different truths, right? But actually, there is a third truth, which is known as the “absolute” truth, which in my humble opinion is unattainable and incomprehensible (smile)........  (Thursday Dec 17 | post #681)

Christian

Jesus never existed

If I may very respectfully ask, “Why do you suppose that all Christians do not share your belief here” (smileI think Jesus said this at John 10:30, right (smileOkay, “Would you be so kind to point out where the word “Trinity” is explicitly mentioned in the bible,” if you do not mind my asking (smileWell, wasn’t Jesus purpose “to do the works of His Father,” if you do not mind my asking? And if so, “Wouldn’t this make them one in purpose, rather than persons” (smileWell, actually Thomas had no problem believing that he was speaking to Jesus. You see, He was not present the first time that Jesus appeared before the other disciples. Thus, it was the other disciples that Thomas had a problem believing, right (smileSpiritual things can only be discerned by the Spirit, right (smilePlease know that I have the utmost respect for your beliefs, even when I do not share them (smileYes, I agree (smile).  (Wednesday Dec 16 | post #672)

Christian

Jesus never existed

...... (3) Post #643 – “Yes, the word Christ means Messiah according to the NT, the Greek lexicon, and Christian theology.” (4) Post #645 – ““Yes,” I agree that the word “Christ” refers to the Hebrew Messiah, according to the Greek lexicon, Christian theology, the Peshitta, and your beliefsThe remark when you said that my interpretation of Mat 24:5 is “nonsense” and “bogus,” as if any interpretation that differs from yours is wrong, right (smileAgain, you are assuming that the word “Christ” at Mat 24:5 means the same thing as “Messiah” at John 4:25, right? And according to the NT, Christian theology, the Greek translation, and your beliefs, this might very well be consistent with these perspectives. But please know that I am not assuming anything here (smileWith all due respect, what is really “bogus” is your repeatedly misquoting what I say (smileWow! Although Matthew is a synoptic Gospel, only John was not one of them. “Do you know why,” if you do not mind my asking (smileNo, this is not my contention (smileAgain, this is simply a straw man argument. You see, I have no problem accepting that in the NT, Greek language, Peshitta, Christian theology, etc., that the word “Christ” means “Messiah.” Now, “Do you have a problem excepting that the word “Messiah” is a Hebrew word,” if you do not mind my asking? And if you can accept this fact, “Then why are totally ignoring the Hebrew meaning of this word (smileWith all due respect, your argument is becoming increasingly circular, in my humble opinion (smile).  (Wednesday Dec 16 | post #671)

Christian

Jesus never existed

Wow! I have said many times that I am not disputing what the word Christ means in Greek, the NT, Christian theology, and/or what you believe. My only contentions is that the Hebrew word Messiah meant something different to the Hebrews, i.e., “a human being, rather than a God-man,” with all due respect (smileAgain, you are trying to put words in mouth and/or thoughts in my mind. And with all due respect, that does not work. You see, what is obvious is that you need a straw man argument to make you case. However, I will not allow you to make such an argument at my expense, with all due respect (smilePlease know that I have read the NT and accept that this is what it meant to those who wrote it. However, the NT writers cannot redefine what the word Messiah meant to the Hebrews, right (smileNot to be deceived about people coming in the name of Jesus, saying that He [Jesus] is the Christ (smileWow! I have not ignored anything. Perhaps, you should read what I explicitly typed at the following posts. And please pay special attention to (3), i.e., “Yes, the word Christ means Messiah according to the NT.” Well, if I may very respectfully ask, “Isn’t the NT the part of the bible from which you make this claim, especially since the word “Christ” is not found anywhere in the OT,” right (smile)? (1) Post #634 - “Again, I agree that the word “Christ” means both the anointed and the Messiah in Christian theology, as well as the Greek language.” (2) Post #635 – “With all due respect, for the umpteen time, I am not arguing what the word Christ means in Greek or any other language but “Hebrew.” ......  (Wednesday Dec 16 | post #670)

Christian

Jesus never existed

No, I never said that Jesus warned His disciples not to believe anything (smile)  (Tuesday Dec 15 | post #657)

Christian

Jesus never existed

...... (1415Now, if you would be so kind, please point out in any of these direct quotes from me where I ever claimed that Jesus told anyone not to “believe” others. And if you cannot find that I ever claimed that Jesus said the word “believe” to His disciples at Mat 24:5, then “Will you accept the fact that you are either misquoting or simply misinterpreting what I say,” if you do not mind my asking (smileI am a skeptic. Thus, I have no brownie points to win. You see, you are the one who cannot accept the fact that Jesus warned His disciples not to be deceived, when many would come in His name, claiming that He is the Christ. But with all due respect, this simple truth hurts because you have been deceived, right (smile)?  (Tuesday Dec 15 | post #656)

Christian

Jesus never existed

......(101213  (Tuesday Dec 15 | post #655)

Christian

Jesus never existed

Yes, this is my claim. So, if you would be so kind, please respond to this particular claim, rather than try to put words in my mouth. “Or is it that you cannot debunk this simply claim,” if you do not mind my asking (smileWow! My interpretation of the Mat 24:5 is that Jesus warned His disciples not be deceived. You’re the one who keeps bringing up the word believe, right (smileAgain, you are trying to derail this discussion about what I claimed that Jesus said at Mat 24:5. But since you keep trying to put words in my mouth, I will totally debunk your misrepresentation that I claimed that Jesus warned His disciples not to “believe” others by explicitly quoting everything that I have claimed about Mat 24:5,” okay: (1234  (Tuesday Dec 15 | post #653)

Christian

Jesus never existed

Again, you are claiming that the words “Christ” at Mat 24:5 means the same thing as “Messiah” at John 4:25-26. And you know that this is a point in which we disagree. Yet, you are still asserting that this is a contradiction on my part….. very clear, but it does work, with all due respect (smileWow! How many times must I say that I did not claim that Jesus warned anyone not “to believe,” but rather not “to be deceived,” if you do not mind my asking? In other words, I will not allow you to put words in my mouth, okay (smilePlease know that you cannot give me a perspective, but if you truly want to know my perspective, then you must ask, with all due respect. Now, in my humble opinion, it is very likely that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah; however, at Mat 24:5, Jesus warned His disciples not be deceived when many would claimed that He was the Christ. So, like I said many times before, the words “Christ” and “Messiah,” are not synonymous, and thus, there is no contradiction…. from my perspective (smileAgain, your condescending remarks adds nothing to this debate, in my humble opinion and with all due respect (smileWell, I claimed that Jesus warned His disciples that many would come in His name, claiming that “He is the Christ.” Now here is what Mat 24:5 explicitly says: “For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.” Now, what is so bogus about what I have claimed, if you do not mind my asking? Now, you have interpreted the phrase “I am the Christ,” to mean “they are the Christ,” right? In other word, you substituted the word “they,” for the actual word “I,” in order to interpret the verse mean what you believe. And then you claimed that my interpretation is bogus and nonsense, whereas it is you who is changing what the verse explicitly says, right (smile)? Anyone with even basic Bible knowledge can see right through your ridiculous nonsense. You think you’re so clever! lol! Your claim is that in Matthew 24:5, Jesus warned His disciples to not believe the others who would come in His name claiming that JESUS is the Christ—Right? ......  (Tuesday Dec 15 | post #652)

Christian

What do you like most about Christmas

Thank you for your very kind words. And please know that intellectual integrity, self-respect, and the right for others to hold a different perspective than mine are qualities that I value dearly (smileYes, I totally agree (smileYes, it was very likely Richard Pryor who said it. If fact, Richard Pryor used to have people of all colors rolling over on the floor with his “n” word jokes. However, he later denounced using the “n” word. Please check out the following clip where he did this, but I caution you that it contains some profanity: http://www.youtube .com/watch?v=fEVmA bxC14gYes, I agree. On the other hand, “Would you agree that if you would “laugh” at a particular joke, then you would be looking at the humor (and sometimes truthfulness) in it, rather than being offended by it,” if you do not mind my asking (smileWell, isn’t one of the defining words of a racist joke is “intent to offend,” rather than “intent to entertain,” if you do not mind my asking (smileWell, in my humble opinion, this is a funny joke, and it has a ring of truth to it (smileWhoops! I meant to say “hear,” (smileReallyWell, although it is racist joke, there is also a ring of truth to it. After all, the property value of homes in all white neighborhoods usually starts to decline when Blacks starts to move in (unless they are celebrities). In fact, this is how the term “White flight,” was coined, right (smileWell, “Is there a ring of truth to this joke,” if you do not mind my asking?  (Tuesday Dec 15 | post #156)

Christian

Jesus never existed

Yes, I agree that this is what He said at John 10:30. However, at the prior verse, Jesus said that “the Father is greater than all” (John 10:29), right? Also, Jesus said that “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). So, please know that “segmented biblical attention” is not the way to the truth, in my humble opinion and with all due respect. You see, when Jesus said, “I and my Father are one,” many Christians have been taught to believe that this verse confirms that Jesus was claiming to God, i.e., “the same person.” Unfortunately, Jesus is simply claiming to be “one in purpose,” not “one in person.” After all, the Jews also thought that Jesus was claiming to be God (John 10:33), but He explicitly told them, “I am the Son of God” (John 10:36). So, “Are you going to make the same mistake that they Jews made in thinking that Jesus “makest thyself God,” if you do not mind my asking (smileGreat! Now, perhaps, you can substantiate these comments using the scripture as the proof text, rather than relying on what you have been taught to believe, with all due respect (smilePlease know that no one can attack the truth. In other words, please do not confuse the truth with someone else’s belief about reality, with all due respect. You see, there are really three types of truths that are at issue here: absolute, evidentiary, and faith-based. Briefly, the absolute truth is that we know very little about the world we inhabit. The evidentiary truth is that which is observable and testable. And the faith-based truth is mostly stories that are accepted and believed without conclusive evidence that will substantiate them, in my humble opinion (smileOf course there are no hard feelings on my part. After all, I am very interested in hearing the perspectives of others, whether I agree or disagree with them (smileWell, when you are interested in discern what is factual and consistent with reality, I most respectfully recommend that you start with universal truths, rather than religious truths (smileWell, please know that according to the bible, God’s “will” will be done (in earth and in heaven), with no exceptions, in my humble opinion (smile).  (Monday Dec 14 | post #647)

Christian

Jesus never existed

Attacking the bible? Wow! You’re the one who has pretty much denounced the bible (especially its use of the word “Christ”) in favor of the Peshitta, right (lolIf I may very respectfully ask, “Why do you continually misquote what I claimed in regards to Mat 24:5”? At any rate, I will repeat what my claim is in this regard: “Jesus warned His disciples not to be deceived because many would come in His name, claiming that Jesus is the Christ.” Nowhere does Jesus warns anyone not to “believe,” okay? Or do you consider “believe” and “deceive” to be synonymous, too, if you do not mind my asking (smileWith all due respect, it is not I who has failed to comprehend what this passage explicitly says. But then again, I can clearly understand why you are truly unwilling to agree with what Mat 24:5 actually says. Unfortunately for you, it does not say anything about “they,” right (smile)?  (Monday Dec 14 | post #646)

Christian

Jesus never existed

Yes,” I agree that the word “Christ” refers to the Hebrew Messiah, according to the Greek lexicon, Christian theology, the Peshitta, and your beliefs. You see, I most respectfully submit that Christ does not refer to the Messiah according to the Hebrew lexicon. Now, “Can we simply agree on these facts,” if you do not mind my asking (smileAgain, my beliefs are totally irrelevant to this discussion. After all, my perspective (not beliefs) is based on what the evidence reveals. You see, as a skeptic, I have not become emotionally attached to someone else’s ideas, claims, and beliefs (smileWell, I most respectfully submit that it is not a whole different subject, especially since you are claiming that word Messiah is synonymous with Christ (Jesus), even though the originators of the word Messiah did not not, nor prophesized thisWell, you’re the one who has been trying to discredit the NT’s use of the word “Christ,” right? Besides, you are again misquoting what I claimed. So, again, do not try to put words in my mouth, for I did not claim that Jesus warned other to “not believe” anything, but rather I claimed that He warned His disciples not to be deceived when “many” would come in His name, claiming that He is the Christ, okay (smileNeither my focus nor my position has not changed. You see, any shifting on my part is a result of your comments, rather than my agenda. In other words, you’re the one who brought up the issues of John 4:25-26, the Peshitta, the Greek Interlinear, the Son of Man, etc., right (smileSo, I see that you are continually renouncing what the NIV says, right, even though you have quoted it many times, right (smilePlease know that I have absolutely no problem with you quoting anything that I have said. You see, what I have a problem with is your “misquoting” what I have said in order to be “right” (your word) about something, with all due respect (smileAnd I have already conceded that the word “Christ” came into existence in the 17th century, right? If you disagree, please read post #612, i.e., “Yes, the word Christ did not exist until the 17th century.” ......  (Monday Dec 14 | post #645)