FredUAW

Detroit, MI

Bing is unwavering on union contracts

yet nothing EVER improves.  (9 hrs ago | post #6)

Detroit, MI

Bing is unwavering on union contracts

Amen!!!  (Monday | post #3)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

So that's it Pete? No reply to any of the verified information that I provided to support my points? So all that you can do vomit Fox News colloquialisms about Unions...thats bad man.  (Thursday Nov 5 | post #115)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

@ Peter "What savings exactly are you talking about?" Labor costs between a Union vs a non-Union workforce. "Losses right now in N.A., are likely related mostly to the recession and getting caught offsides building a mega-truck (here in Texas)." Dose this same recession apply toward the Big-3 as well, or are you going to continue to manipulate reality to fit neatly into you anti-Union rhetoric? Was the Big-3 not also "caught offsides" building a mega-trucks and SUV's when oil prices spiked, and the recession hit? You can't have it both ways Peter. Based off of your arguments the Big-3's troubles are UAW related, and Toyota's troubles are recession related. That's a bit convenient even for you anti-Union folks. "How about if you just look at market share and wonder about what the customer sees that you might not." In 2008 GM 22.1% of the market share, YTD '09 19.7% Ford '08 14.3%, YTD '09 15.2% Toyota '08 16.8% YTD '09 16.7% So once again based off of your argument about market share a bankrupt GM is out doing you by a strong 3pts, Ford is up nearly an entire point (in a recession), and Toyota is lossing market share......so what exactly were we suppose to see again? http://online.wsj. com/mdc/public/pag e/2_3022-autosales .html "The car doesn't have to cost less. It's value. Toyota can charge more because, mostly, it's better." Once again where is the verifiable information? If this is your opinion thats fine. but don't try to pass it off as the gospel. "You tout Ford as a success. That tells me a lot about UAW mentality. They made a little bit of money in the latest quarter, wow-wee." It's not just my mentality, its the will of the people. Of the 20 top selling vehicles last month Ford had four (F-Series trucks/Fusion/Esca pe/Focus), and Toyota had four (Camry,Solara/Coro lla,Matrix/RAV4/Pr ius). Ford had the top seller with the F-Series sitting at 335,000 units sold. That said we are in a recession and world wide auto sales are way down. F-Series -23.2%, Camry,Solara -23.7%, Corolla,Matrix -21.6% ect ect. Its so bad that only five vehicles in the top 20 enjoyed sales growth from 2008 until today; Toyota RAV4 + 1.6%/Ford Fusion + 15.3%/Ford Escape + 2.3%/Chevrolet Traverse + 999.9% http://online.wsj. com/mdc/public/pag e/2_3022-autosales .html Getting back to your statement yes I'm touting Ford as a success. 1) Ford is posting recession time profits....toyota is not! 2) Ford has the top selling vehicle.....toyota does not! 3) Ford is gaining market share......toyota isn't! 4) Of the five positive growth in sales vehicles Ford has (2), toyota has (1). 5) As a company toyota is down in sales 25.5% YTD. Ford is down 20.3% YTD. 6) Ford is doing all of this with a well payed Unionized workforce.....toyo ta takes advantage of cheap overseas labor, and ignorant walmart republicans who have been duped into thinking they shouldn't be payed well. So yes.....Ford is in fact a success!!  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #108)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

That's one way to look at it I guess. Another way would be to flip it around and ask the question why aren't non-Union labor savings passed along to the customer. If your theory is in the least bit true, then why isn't the exact opposite a reality any where within the auto industry? Of all of the non-Union auto's made why don't they cost less, or for that matter (using Ford as an example) why is the UAW/Ford business model profitable? You all are big on Toyota down there in Texas. Toyota is a non-Union company, and yet Toyota North America can't turn a profit.......how is that? http://www.reuters .com/article/GCA-a utos/idUSTRE56M48Q 20090723 Pete, you seem like a nice enough person. But simply repeating the worn out anti-Union talking points dosen't make them any more true. Or for that matter it doesn't alter the reality that non-Union auto makers and manufactures are catching hell just like us.  (Wednesday Nov 4 | post #98)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

sorry I forgot to provide a link. http://www.state.o k.us/osfdocs/budge t/table9.pdf  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #93)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

and that's the point Savage. All of these fools that think that the job situation in America is a Union-vs-non-Union state issue are badly mistaken. Blame the high labor costs of Unions all they like. Yet none of them can explain why jobs are disappearing from right to work states at a rate just as fast as they are in Union states. News flash my anti-Union brethren. They think that you make too much money also, and if you haven't noticed they outsourced your job(s) just like they did the so-called over payed Union jobs. But if it helps you to sleep better at night to blame the yankee Union folks go right ahead. We're used to it. But don't think that its going to improve your situations one iota. Last I checked that wasn't a Union recession, its an American recession.  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #92)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

Absolutely Texas is below the national average. But even you must admit, this time 10 yrs ago Texas was no where near 8.2% unemployed. In fact unemployment in Texas was 4.8% and 3.8% in Michigan. So what happenened? True enough as things stand today Texas is under the national average. Its also true that your unemployment has doubled within the last 10yrs. Texas is/was a "right-to-wor k" state free of the burden of Unions.......so why the the spike in unemployment?  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #91)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

Your assurtion that Union wages are in some fashion resposible for the outsourcing of American jobs is like saying a rape victim was "asking for it". If the matter was simply finding lower labor costs jobs would move form "closed shop" Union states to "right-to-wor k" non-Union states, and clearly this isn't the case. Because one look at the latest unemployment figures illustrates just this point. Your so-called right to work states ain't working either. NEVADA 13.3% unemployed SOUTH CAROLINA 11.6% FLORIDA 11% KENTUCKY 10.9% NORTH CAROLINA 10.8% ALABAMA 10.7% TENNESSEE 10.5% GEORGIA 10.1% ect ect ect http://www.bls.gov /web/laumstrk.htm Millions of jobs were outsourced.....not Union jobs, American jobs, and they were taken from every nook and cranny throughout this nation. Hate Union's all you like. Just be factual with your arguments is all that I ask.  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #88)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

In your post you said wages. It wasn't clear that you were speaking of the total compensation package. Fair enough. It's true that the UAW and the Big-3 have a unique working relationship. Although past UAW agreements reflected past performances by the company, I wouldn't go as far as to call them bloated. Prior to the bottom falling out of the world-wide auto market the Big-3 was enjoying record profits. As a result its workers enjoyed a healthy share of the success. Salary, UAW, contract workers all included. However, as we all know things have changed, and so to did the contracts between the UAW and the Big-3. I cited Japan's nationalized H/C and pension plan to give proper credit where it is due. Not only have the Big-3 been more than fair with its workers (Union and otherwise) its done the honorable thing by providing its workers with H/C and pension. This was all taken care of 100% when times were better, and although we are not paying the types of co-pays that your speaking of. A number of H/C concessions have been made to assist in off setting costs. All that I'm saying is that the Big-3 deserve tons of respect for being generous with its workforce, as well as not trying taking advantage of Gov. provided H/C and pension benefits like the Japanese auto makers do, along with their American transplants. I disagree with you, a great deal of the UAW rank-and-file understand completely how fortunate we are. That said, even in a "Union" there is almost never 100% agreement. I'm sure that your profession and/or place of business isn't free of bad attitudes and problem child's. Why would the UAW be any different?  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #83)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

That is absolutely true, yet it is only half of the story. Often times when the topic of a "non-Union environment" is brought up we are not talking about non-Union areas of the U.S. We are talking about outsourcing of jobs to Mexico, India, China, South America, ect ect, and that's bad news for us all.  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #82)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

Actually wages are the smallest piece of the pie. Auto maker profits are hit the most by way of benefits. Namely health care ins. and pensions. The Big-3 along with many other companies still provide employer paid H/C for its workers. Which admittedly puts them at a disadvantage to foreign automakers who do not provide such a benefit to its workers. However, all of this could be fixed if the U.S. adopted a Nationalized H/C and pension plan much like Japan's. http://blogs.paysc ale.com/ask_dr_sal ary/2008/12/are-fo rd-workers-really- paid-73-an-hour.ht ml http://www.autowee k.com/article/2005 0401/FREE/50401070 2  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #79)

Detroit, MI

Ford workers reject contract changes

Yep, there is in fact a great deal of fraud and corruption right here in the USA. How about this? We the citizens of the USA will worry about the social ill's that may or may not be present in America, and you clean up the social ill's in China and stop trolling around our websites causing trouble. Speaking of fraud and/or corruption.... The fear factor China's leadership as well as its people are worried. Indeed, the country's cautious, pragmatic political elite is dominated by fear. The ruling party is effectively a state within a state, focused in the end at preserving its power, no matter what the cost. At least, this is the impression it would like to give others. A long-term resident of Beijing commented to me that President Hu Jintao and prime minister Wen Jiabao see themselves as surrounded by potential threats, and that in response to anyone who dares to try to offer a competitive political challenge their trump-card is to deploy the power of the law, the army and the security services. A case in point is the way that members of the Charter 08 group, led by veteran activist Liu Xiaobo, were rewarded with their declaration released on 10 December 2008 appealing to the authorities to allow more openness and political competition in China by being chucked into one of the "detention centres" in the suburbs of the capital. But Hu and Wen are careful to be seen as acting within the law, and in the strictest legal interpretation Liu and his colleagues are now no longer under arrest. They are just being subjected to "residential surveillance" , restricted in their movements and actions. It is an old trick, but for many years this tactic has worked - for it instils fear, isolation, and, most wished for of all, silence. In their own terms, Wen and Hu are right. Mass unemployment, economic uncertainty, and rising threats to the party in power have never led to good things in the past. The smiling face that the world saw during the Olympics is at best wearing a weary grin at the moment. Tourists to Beijing and Shanghai may still perceive stability and calm, but those who look a bit closer see surprising levels of violence and discontent. For their part, the authorities are aware of the extent of unrest across China - from the demonstrations in the factory-zones by recently laid-off workers demanding their wages from absconding Taiwanese owners to the upsurge of student anger directed against Japan in (of all places) the respected Fudan University in Shanghai. When will these background murmurs start to become a shout, and then a roar? And if they do, how far will the party be willing to go to keep a lid on things? Its past record is clear enough. If violence there must be, then so be it; the justifications and the cleaning-up can be dealt with later. It escapes no one's attention that 2009 is also the fiftieth anniversary of the Tibetan uprising of 1959 and the twentieth anniversary of the Tiananmen protests of 1989. http://www.opendem ocracy.net/article /china-in-2009-a-y ear-for-surprise  (Tuesday Nov 3 | post #73)