Dagobert II

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormons: We are Christians, too

I would tend to agree that to humans, bloodline SHOULD be irrelevant. But it isn't. Obviously there are folks on this Earth who live as they do and are regarded as they are ENTIRELY because of their bloodline. We have entire nations, such as Israel, that are founded on the claim a bloodline says was made between them and a Divine extraterrestrial. Have you ever heard the term 'Mormon Royalty' used by some Mormons? Steve Benson, who is no longer Mormon, has spoken about what it meant to be 'Mormon Royalty' and the pressures that were brought to bear on him to choose a spouse only from another 'Royal' family. Obviously these were factors that are not a concern to most folks Mormon or not, but to those who are of a special bloodline, or are thought to be of a special bloodline, these are very important considerations. So what if 'special' people really are special by way of their genetic inheritance? What if there ARE thirteen special bloodlines? What if those who have maintained their genetic inheritance closer to the original extraterrestrial model than others really are different? I'm not saying I'm especially impressed with the Windsors, but Gardner would argue that the Stuarts have the better claim and Yosef Dayan would probably assert that his claim was better than either. What if the 'patrons' should ever return from Nibiru or the vicinity of Kolob? Would they really be gods or just folks with the technology to enforce their demands? Are such beliefs, true or not, good or bad? I suspect these beliefs could be very good for the claimants, but at what expense to everyone else? I guess when I boil it all down I see two probabilities. The first probability is that the stories of the gods are all a scam promoted by the 'chosen ones' to justify and maintain their position as the chosen ones. The second probability I see is closely related to the first. There really ARE 'special' bloodlines that are genetically closer to our extraterrestrial designers than the rest of us but the designers are no more divine than we are. They are just members of a more advanced civilization that have encouraged the belief that they are divine to justify and maintain their position vis a vis the rest of us. REAL Divinity is more than just advanced humanity in my opinion.  (4 hrs ago | post #15974)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormons: We are Christians, too

Well, aren't we all? Seriously though, I've never been able to trace my genealogy back more than a couple of generations on my mother's side. My father was a Freemason and our family name is supposed to be one of the Illuminated thirteen bloodlines, but I've yet to receive a briefing on my role when we assume control of the world, or even get my invitation to the Bohemian GroveThough I've heard of the Hollow Earth theory in various applications to include as Mormon 'folk doctrine' as a place of residence for the 'lost tribes', I don't believe either Gardner or Sitchen address it. I believe the Mormon writer W.Cleon Skousen and/or his son Erik Skousen propose a Hollow Earth and there have been attempts by Mormons out of Provo, Utah to organize expeditions on the former Soviet ice breaker Lenin to search for the polar entrance to the Hollow Earth. I am somewhat skeptical to the point of amusement at such efforts. After all, an alternative Hollow Earth theory is that it is the location of Ultima Thule where the ancestors of the Aryans reside in the illumination of the Swartz Sonne and that the Nazis who escaped the Reich in 1945 reunited with their ancestors in the Hollow Earth by way of a secret U-boat and Vril craft base located at the southern entrance to Ultima Thule near the German polar colony of Neuschwabenland. If that's the case, I'd suspect the Aryans and the lost tribes might make the Hollow Earth one exciting place to try to live and any group of Mormons approaching the entrance on a former Bolshevik ice breaker might expect a most unfriendly greeting from a Nazi Haunebu III flying saucer.  (4 hrs ago | post #15973)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormons: We are Christians, too

I guess its a question of probability. Are aliens from another planet more or less likely than Deities, and what, exactly, is a Deity? If, as Mormons maintain, Deities are simply an advanced form of humanity, at what point of development does a human become a Deity? Like Brigham Young's argument about a wagon with a team of horses being driven across a lake appearing as a miracle to people unfamiliar with ice, so might humans with technology that would allow interplanetary travel appear to be Deities to less advanced folks that they encounter, but would they BE Deities or simply appear to be Deities? Again, that would depend upon how one defined the term 'Divinity'. An interesting point here would be that according to Mormon doctrine, the Deities of this Earth ARE extraterrestrials from Kolob. Gardner and Sitchen (have you read his work?) would agree with Mormons on this but instead call the home planet of the 'gods' Nibiru. Zechariah Sitchen seems to have his doubts about the actual divinity of these extraterrestrials but would certainly agree that they might want to be seen as deities by humanity. Both Gardner and Sitchen postulate that bloodline is extremely important to these extraterrestrials and is essential to the significance of the Messiah/Messiach/M adhi. I can't help but wonder how the application of Mormon genealogical records may apply to the tracing of bloodlines especially given that according to Mormon genealogical records Joseph Smith Jr. is allegedly descended from the Merovingians. Are you familiar with the writings of Mormon author Avraham Gileadi concerning the role of King David's bloodline to the Mormon Church? I too find it probable that any first century Jew who may have become known to us as 'Jesus' was probably married with children. The other stuff about a virgin birth, walking on water, turning water into wine, reanimating from a state of death and ascending to heaven on a cloud I find much less credible except as symbolic myth. I find it less probable that any extraterrestrials that may come or may have already come to this Earth are Divine or that their descendants are Divine, by my definition of Divinity. If Gardner and Sitchen are correct about extraterrestrials having genetically designed humanity for their own purposes by combining their genes with those of an indigenous species, and if some among us consider themselves more 'worthy' than others by virtue of a more direct descent from these extraterrestrials, I've got to admit to being more than just a little suspicious of these folks, especially if their claims could be proven.  (6 hrs ago | post #15948)

Guns

Gun owners' duty

Arms control, at either the personal or international level DOESN'T WORK. Korea's got nukes, Iran will probably get them as well, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to own a couple and I suspect my neighbor down the street is enriching uranium as I type. Even folks in the most totalitarian societies seem to get hold of weapons. When the Soviet Union fell it seems everyone was running around with a Kalashnikov or two. Give it up control freaks! Existence is not subject to legislation. The cosmos is the way it is and for the most part, for most of us, that's fine. That's why I can, for the most part, trust in the good will of my fellow armed citizens. Perhaps I'm wrong but I think most people, even armed people, are good people. On the other hand, institutions like governments and churches don't have such a good track record. Disarm the institutions, arm the people.  (10 hrs ago | post #890)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormons: We are Christians, too

Hannah Rebekah, your avatar, The Accolade, and some comments you made earlier in this thread, lead me to believe you have at least read Laurence Gardner's Bloodline of the Holy Grail. Have you in fact read it and if so, what are your thoughts on his theory of the genesis of the grail family?  (Sunday | post #15916)

Glasgow, KY

Non-Christian to answer this interview

• What is prime reality? Prime reality is the summation of existence. • What is the nature of external reality, the world around us? No one knows the summation of existence, but it is what it is. • What is a human being? A human being is a specific genome of one of the organic forms of existence. • What happens at death? Upon death, organic compounds decompose. • Why is it possible to know anything? It is only possible to claim to know what one knows by at least temporarily ignoring the fact that one does not know the things one does not know, any of which could completely invalidate one's supposed knowledge. • How do we know what is right and wrong? We don't know what is right or wrong. We only know our subjective feelings about any given thing at any given time. If we like it, it's good, if we don't, it isn't. Were one to realize that all existence is one there would be neither ego nor perceptions of good or evil. • What is meaning of human history? What evidence is there of meaning in human history?  (Saturday | post #4)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormonism's unique culture

Well, since we're having a hymn fest, how 'bout Come, Come Ye Saints? http://www.truveo. com/mormon-murdere rs-the-mass-murder -by-a-prophet/id/3 669551034  (Friday Nov 20 | post #122)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Ensign Federal Credit Union fails

Holy Kirtland Safety Society Batman! http://en.wikipedi a.org/wiki/Kirtlan d_Safety_Society  (Friday Nov 20 | post #2)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormonism's unique culture

For a look at the modern legacy of the Mountain Meadows Massacre I would recommend Burying The Past by Brian Patrick. The film starts by telling the story of the massacre as remembered by Nancy Saphrona Huff, one of the few children spared by the Mormons as she was thought too young to tell of the massacre. Moving to the present, the film then explores the attempt of the LDS cult to put the unpleasant truth behind them by attempting to reconstruct the monument atop the mass grave of the victims. In unintentionally reopening the grave, the LDS cult reopens the controversy over the massacre and within the descendants of the families of the massacre victims and within the family of Mormon scapegoat John D. Lee. http://www.burying thepast.com/index. htm  (Thursday Nov 19 | post #105)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormonism's unique culture

In the past, when members of the LDS cult have written anything that cult leaders have considered less than flattering about the cult, no matter how true their writings may have been, those members have found themselves excommunicated from the cult. For examples of this consider Fawn Mackay Brodie, D. Michael Quinn, Grant Palmer and the 'September Six'. Unless the authors of Pahoran's recommended book have been excommunicated from the cult, its a good bet their book is a PR whitewash of the cult's role in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. http://mormonism.s uite101.com/articl e.cfm/mormon_intel lectual_decline  (Thursday Nov 19 | post #102)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormons: We are Christians, too

My view of religion, as it has been practiced historically, is that it is an attempt at spiritual government. Like secular government, it tends to bring out the worst in humanity. Natural religion teaches that all is inherently worthy by the very fact of its existence. No government is necessary.  (Wednesday Nov 18 | post #15868)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormons: We are Christians, too

While I might think "bad" is just an expression of subjective preference and not an objective status, it is my observation that most folks who think anything or anyone requires salvage tend to have made the determination that the natural state is, to them, unsatisfactory. Of course change is a part of nature, but folks' opinion of the quality of change is rarely unanimous.  (Tuesday Nov 17 | post #15859)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormonism's unique culture

I've heard the Utah legal system is working on a tremendous backlog of cases that has prevented them from getting this case on the docket. They're still trying to find the 'real killers' in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Maybe O.J. will be able to offer his forensic skills when he gets released. Dallin Oaks isn't sure how much evidence should be disclosed, and Boyd K. Packer isn't sure the truth of the matter is very useful to his testimony anyway.  (Tuesday Nov 17 | post #96)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormonism)

Mormonism's unique culture

You see, Pahoran and I happen to know that one of the laws of physics is that no crime can ever go unpunished. It's absolutely impossible, especially in the Mormon Occupation Zone of DeseretWell, if you consider the Utah State Archeologist, Kevin Jones, a "spiteful anti-Mormon heckler", here's what he had to say, ""To rebury the remains at this point would constitute, in the opinion of the Antiquities Section, a violation of professional, scientific and ethical responsibilities, " Jones wrote. "It also might indeed be seen as demonstrating disrespect for the victims, to bury them once again with bones of many individuals mixed and jumbled, as they were originally disrespectfully interred, in a mass grave of murder victims." Of course Archeologists, being the sort to find the historical claims made by the Book of Mormon ridiculous and without merit, might just be the sorts of folks that Mormons would find "anti-MormonB y Utah state law scientific analysis, to current standards of scientific rigor, is required whenever human remains are discovered on private property. "Church officials and BYU put Loving in charge and agreed with his plan to rebury within 48 hours. But that plan was foiled on Aug. 5 when Jones, the state archaeologist, informed them Utah law required a basic scientific analysis when human remains are discovered on private property. Failure to comply was a felony. BYU needed a state permit to legally remove the remains. And, by law, such permits require "the reporting of archaeological information at current standards of scientific rigor." Source: Christopher Smith, The Salt Lake Tribune, March 14, 2000. Please note that the standard is scientific rigor and not the standards of scholarship Mormons apply to the development of a testiphony.  (Tuesday Nov 17 | post #94)