Vatican Keeps Parish Records From Mormons
We need a 'Do Not Baptise' registry, something like the 'Do Not Call' registry. The Jews and Catholics could sign up, but they wouldn't be the first. That would be me. (May 4, 2008 | post #4)
Mormon, Baptist respect differences in faith
Mormons are respectful towards other faiths? Let's examine that assertion: Mormons claim that theirs is the “one true church”. Claiming that God himself has declared all other churches to be false, all an “abomination” before God and those who profess those creeds are “corrupt”. Prior to 1990, the temple ceremony included the portrayal of a Protestant minister as a servant of Satan. Mormons do not permit non-Mormon parents to be present at temple wedding ceremonies of their own children; forcing couples into making the people who love them wait outside with broken hearts. Mormon doctrine still teaches that black skin and features are a punishment from God - the Curse of Cain. People who leave the Mormon church are slandered as sinful and demeaned as too weak or lazy to live the rules. Mormons perform proxy baptisms for the dead (usually without the permission or knowledge of the person’s living relatives) to make the posthumous Mormons. They've been caught several times posthumously baptising holocaust victims despite several promises not to. A woman, no matter how qualified, will never lead the Mormon church. While governor of Utah, Mike Leavitt, held secret meetings on government time to study LDS scriptures and determine how "just and holy" Mormon principles could be integrated into state public policy. New laws in Utah are routinely vetted by church authorities. A thumbs down or up from the church seals its fate. Don’t even let me get started on how gays are treated by the Mormon church. Respectful? Hmmmm...... (May 3, 2008 | post #2)
Most Mormons today consider polygamy a practice relegated to history, quick to point out that polygamy was banned and is now an excommunicable offense. However, attempts to disavow polygamy are disingenuous as the scripture commanding polygamy as an eternal doctrine (Doctrine & Covenants, Section 132) remains as canonized church doctrine. Polygamy is still practiced in the sense that a man who remarries after the death of his wife can be sealed to his new wife and expects to live with both women in heaven. Joseph F. Smith, tenth president of the church married Louise Shurtleff in 1898 who died in 1908. In 1908 he married Ethel Reynolds, who died in 1937. In 1938 he married Jessie Evans, who died in 1971. He was sealed "for eternity" to each of those women in an LDS temple. Now, paraphrasing what the Pharisees asked Jesus: Which woman will be Smith's wife in the celestial kingdom? According to Mormon doctrine, ALL THREE will be his wives. Smith confirmed "...my wives will be mine in eternity.”(Doctrin es of Salvation, 2:67.) Isn't that polygamy? (Of course, Jesus answered that there was NO marriage in heaven, but he didn't know Mormon doctrine, obviously.) The FLDS are following a form of mormonism closed to the original than the mainstream LDS church. Church founder, Joseph Smith married at least 33 women. One third of those were women who were already married and remained married to the legal, living husbands. One third were teenage girls. The first was Emma Smith's 16 year old house maid, Fanny Alger. One 'bride' was 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball. Smith approached Helen, promising her that he would guarantee her salvation and the salvation of her entire family. IOW, he made a teenage girl responsbile for the eternal fate of everyone she loved. How is that different from Warren Jeffs and his ilk? (May 3, 2008 | post #1)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Mormon Cult: 31 Cases Of Statutory Rape, Men Will Be Found
The FLDS are following in the footsteps of the mormon church founder, Joseph Smith. Smith 'married' at least 33 women. 1/3 of whom were already married and remained married to their legal, living husbands. 1/3 of Smith's 'wives' were teenagers. His first teenage 'wife' was Emma Smith's sixteen year old housmaid, Fanny Alger. His youngest 'bride' was 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball. He approached her promising to guarantee her salvation and the salvation of her entire family giving her 24 hours to decide. IOW, he made a young girl responsible for the eternal fate of everyone she loved. Helen later confided in a friend that had she known the marriage would be more than symbolic she would not have agreed. But she had been deceived. How is that different Warren Jeffs and his ilk? Joseph Smith’s teen wives: Fanny Alger 16 Sarah Ann Whitney 17 Lucy Walker 17 Flora Ann Woodworth 16 Emily Dow Partridge 19 Sarah Lawrence 17 Maria Lawrence 19 Helen Mar Kimball 14 Melissa Lott 19 Nancy M. Winchester [14?] (May 2, 2008 | post #3)
Area Mormon's React to Texas Polygamist Sect
Most Mormons today consider polygamy a practice relegated to history, quick to point out that polygamy was banned and is now an excommunicable offense. However, attempts to disavow polygamy are disingenuous as the scripture commanding polygamy as an eternal doctrine (Doctrine & Covenants, Section 132) remains as canonized church doctrine. Polygamy is still practiced in the sense that a man who remarries after the death of his wife can be sealed to his new wife and expects to live with both women in heaven. Joseph F. Smith, tenth president of the church married Louise Shurtleff in 1898 who died in 1908. In 1908 he married Ethel Reynolds, who died in 1937. In 1938 he married Jessie Evans, who died in 1971. He was sealed "for eternity" to each of those women in an LDS temple. Now, paraphrasing what the Pharisees asked Jesus: Which woman will be Smith's wife in the celestial kingdom? According to Mormon doctrine, ALL THREE will be his wives. Smith confirmed "...my wives will be mine in eternity.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:67.) Isn't that polygamy? (Of course, Jesus answered that there was NO marriage in heaven, but he didn't know Mormon doctrine, obviously.) (May 2, 2008 | post #1)
Media & Polygamy: Telling The Story
Most Mormons today consider polygamy a practice relegated to history, quick to point out that polygamy was banned and is now an excommunicable offense. However, attempts to disavow polygamy are disingenuous as the scripture commanding polygamy as an eternal doctrine (Doctrine & Covenants, Section 132) remains as canonized church doctrine. Polygamy is still practiced in the sense that a man who remarries after the death of his wife can be sealed to his new wife and expects to live with both women in heaven. Joseph F. Smith, tenth president of the church married Louise Shurtleff in 1898 who died in 1908. In 1908 he married Ethel Reynolds, who died in 1937. In 1938 he married Jessie Evans, who died in 1971. He was sealed "for eternity" to each of those women in an LDS temple. Now, paraphrasing what the Pharisees asked Jesus: Which woman will be Smith's wife in the celestial kingdom? According to Mormon doctrine, ALL THREE will be his wives. Smith confirmed "...my wives will be mine in eternity.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:67.) Isn't that polygamy? (Of course, Jesus answered that there was NO marriage in heaven, but he didn't know Mormon doctrine, obviously.) (May 2, 2008 | post #1)
FLDS beliefs set it apart from other Mormons
Joseph Smith married at least 33 'wives'. One third of them were all ready married and remained married to their legal husbands. One third were teenagers. His first plural 'wife' was 16 year old Fanny Alger, Emmas housemaid. Smith's youngest 'bride' was 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball. Initially, she found his proposition appalling, but then he promised to guarantee her salvation and the salvation of her entire family. IOW, he made a 14 year old child responsible for the eternal fate of everyone she loved. How is that different than Warren Jeffs? Joseph Smith’s teen wives: Fanny Alger 16 Sarah Ann Whitney 17 Lucy Walker 17 Flora Ann Woodworth 16 Emily Dow Partridge 19 Sarah Lawrence 17 Maria Lawrence 19 Helen Mar Kimball 14 Melissa Lott 19 Nancy M. Winchester [14?] Helen confided to a close friend:“I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it.”(“Mormon Polygamy: A History”, Richard S. Van Wagoner, p. 53.) Today's FLDS follow in the footsteps for Mormonism's founder, Joseph Smith (May 1, 2008 | post #166)
Joseph Smith married at least 33 'wives'. One third of them were all ready married and remained married to their legal husbands. One third were teenagers. His first plural 'wife' was 16 year old Fanny Alger, Emmas housemaid. Smith's youngest 'bride' was 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball. Initially, she found his proposition appalling, but then he promised to guarantee her salvation and the salvation of her entire family. IOW, he made a 14 year old child responsible for the eternal fate of everyone she loved. How is that different than Warren Jeffs? Joseph Smith’s teen wives: Fanny Alger 16 Sarah Ann Whitney 17 Lucy Walker 17 Flora Ann Woodworth 16 Emily Dow Partridge 19 Sarah Lawrence 17 Maria Lawrence 19 Helen Mar Kimball 14 Melissa Lott 19 Nancy M. Winchester [14?] Helen confided to a close friend: “I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it.” (“Mormon Polygamy: A History”, Richard S. Van Wagoner, p. 53.) Today's FLDS follow in the footsteps for Mormonism's founder, Joseph Smith (May 1, 2008 | post #1)
The assertion that the mainstream LDS church abadoned polygamy is false of several counts. First, after the 'revelation' to stop the practice, church leaders performed and/or sanctioned another 200 polygamous marriages over a 20 year period despite their public denials. Second, the commandment to practice polygamy remains as cannonized church doctrine, Section 132 of the Doctrine & Coventants. Finally, polygamy is still practiced in the sense that a man who remarries after the death of his wife can be sealed to his new wife and expects to live with both women in heaven. Joseph Fielding Smith, tenth president of the church married Louise E. Shurtleff in 1898 who died in 1908.. In 1908 he married Ethel G. Reynolds, who died in 1937. In 1938 he married Jessie Evans, who died in 1971. He was sealed "for eternity" to each of those women in an LDS temple. Now, paraphrasing what the Pharisees asked Jesus: Which woman will be Smith's wife in the celestial kingdom? According to Mormon doctrine, ALL THREE will be his wives. Smith confirmed "...my wives will be mine in eternity.” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 2, pg 67.) Isn't that polygamy? (Of course, Jesus answered that there was NO marriage in heaven, but he didn't know Mormon doctrine, obviously.) Harold B. Lee, the 11th president of the church, also remarried after his wife's death and anticipated his reunion with both women in poetry: "My lovely Joan was sent to me: So Joan joins Fern That three might be, more fitted for eternity. 'O Heavenly Father, my thanks to thee' " (Deseret News 1974 Church Almanac, page 17) Additional examples include Howard W. Hunter, the 14th church president, who married Clara May Jeffs in 1931. She died in 1983. He then married Inis Bernice Egan in 1990. Both were sealed to him for time and eternity. Before his death in 1995, Hunter stated that he was looking forward to being reunited with his two wives in heaven. (Apr 19, 2008 | post #1)
LDS in politics an uphill battle for 164 years
Mormons claim that theirs is the “one true church”. Church missionaries spend two years repeating Joseph Smith’s claim that God himself had declared all other churches to be false, all an “abomination” before God and those who profess those creeds are “corrupt”. Mormons perform proxy baptisms for the dead (usually without the permission or knowledge of the person’s living relatives) to make the posthumous Mormons. Mormons do not permit non-Mormon parents to be present at temple wedding ceremonies of their own children; forcing couples into making the people who love them wait outside with broken hearts. Mormon doctrine still teaches that black skin and features are a punishment from God - the Curse of Cain. Prior to 1990, the temple ceremony included the portrayal of a Protestant minister as a servant of Satan. Mormon teetotalers feel completely justified in controlling the access to alcohol for non-Mormons who choose to drink. New laws are routinely vetted by church authorities. A thumbs down or up from the church seals its fate. While governor of Utah, Mike Leavitt, held secret meetings to study LDS scriptures and determine how "just and holy" Mormon principles could be woven into state public policy. Yet, Mormons want to whine about intolerance while they are unwilling to examine how their own doctrine and practices discriminate against others? It is telling that those who express the most animosity towards Mormonism are former members or non-member who live in Utah. Mormons are reaping what they have sown. (Jan 6, 2008 | post #5)
Latter-day Saints have a big stake in Romney's campaign
Mormons claim that theirs is the “one true church”. Church missionaries spend two years repeating Joseph Smith’s claim that God himself had declared all other churches to be false, all an “abomination” before God and those who professed those creeds are “corrupt”. Mormons perform proxy baptisms for the dead (usually without the permission or knowledge of the person’s living relatives) to make the posthumous Mormons. Mormons do not permit non-Mormon parents to be present at temple wedding ceremonies of their own children; forcing couples into making the people who love them wait outside with broken hearts. Mormon doctrine still teaches that black skin and features are a punishment from God - the Curse of Cain. Prior to 1990, the temple ceremony included the portrayal of a Protestant minister as a servant of Satan. Mormon teetotalers feel completely justified in controlling the access to alcohol for non-Mormons who choose to drink. New laws are routinely vetted by church authorities. A thumbs down or up from the church seals its fate. While governor of Utah, Mike Leavitt, held secret meetings to study LDS scriptures and determine how "just and holy" Mormon principles could be woven into state public policy. Yet, Mormons want to whine about intolerance while they are unwilling to examine how their own doctrine and practices discriminate against others? It is telling that those who express the most animosity towards Mormonism are former members or non-members who live in Utah. Mormons are reaping what they have sown. (Jan 6, 2008 | post #1)
Thank you for your comments Kathleen. I am not Jewish but I have attended Jewis weddings. I am not Catholic but I have attended Catholic weddings. I am not Hindu but I have attended Hindu weddings. The only wedding I have not been permitted to attend was the Mormon temple wedding of my own daughter. After a lifetime of expressing unconditional love and support in all the tangible and intangible ways only a mother can; I was judged "unworthy " and not allowed to be present at the marriage ceremony of my own child because it took place inside an LDS temple. This is a terrible and hurtful policy of the LDS church. The LDS church’s exclusionary policy extends to church members who are considered “unworthy” in some way. Several years ago, a friend was excluded from his daughter’s wedding because he had fallen behind in his tithing. In other words, a father (and life-long member of the LDS church) was denied permission to be present at the marriage of his daughter because he owed the church money. A simple solution would be for couples with non-member or “unworthy” family members to be married in a ceremony outside of the temple and then be “sealed” inside the temple later. This would allow for both an inclusive ceremony and the sacred rite. However, LDS couples living in the US are actively discouraged from considering this option and those who do are penalized by church policy requiring them to wait one year to be sealed in the temple. Further, it has been my observation that couples who still choose this option are demeaned as being somehow “less than faithful”. (See the church publication Ensign, February 2005.) However, this waiting period is not church policy in the UK, France, Germany, Japan and many other countries. Church policy allows couples there to marry in a ceremony outside the temple and to be sealed in the temple on the same day or another day of their choice. They are not penalized by any waiting period. Clearly, church doctrine permits this option. If the LDS church is unwilling to allow non-LDS family and friends to be present at temple marriages (and I don’t think they should be forced to), they should at least eliminate the one year waiting period altogether. If LDS church leaders are serious about doing their part to bridge the religious divide between themselves and other religions and honest about their “family values” PR they must change their cruel and unnecessary policy. It is simply time for the LDS church to stop forcing couples to make those who love them wait outside with broken hearts. (Dec 22, 2007 | post #22)
Romney's Remark Conflicts With Mormon Religion
So much for having a living prophet who "communes with Jehovah" and will never lead the church astray. We thank thee O God for a profit. (Dec 21, 2007 | post #1)
King said George Romney didn't march
Mitt cannot run on his father's record. Regardless of what his father did or did not do, the larger question is: What did Mitt do? The LDS church maintained a racist policy of denying full membership to blacks until 1978. The text of the Book of Mormon and other Mormon scripture equate righteousness with skin color. Mormon doctrine still teaches that black skin and features are the “curse of Cain”. Romney was 31 years old at the time the Church lifted the ban which means that for a significant portion of his adult life he accepted his church’s teaching that blacks are inherently inferior. Does he still believe that he is more "valiant " than blacks by virtue of being born white? If he didn't believe that people of color were inferior during his adult life before the ban was lifted, why did he remain a member – tacitly supporting the ban and its doctrinal underpinnings? Did he counsel members to not accept this church teaching when he was a church missionary, bishop or stake president? He admitted in NY Times interview that he never questioned or protested this racist doctrine and the policy it supported. Why not? While the church has changed its policy of prohibiting blacks from holding its priesthood, it has never renounced the doctrine that led to the ban in the first place; never disavowed or removed from the church cannon the scripture that the doctrine is based upon; never renounced or apologized for racist statements made by its leaders. While nearly 30 years have passed since the ban was lifted, not a single black face appears in the upper echelons of Mormon church leadership. (Dec 21, 2007 | post #1)
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