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JW's what does born again mean?
Israel doesn't matter anymore in the affairs of God because Jesus said that their house was abandoned to them at Matt 23:38 back in the first centuryThey certainly had the privilege but not all were worthy. As Romans 9:6 shows, it is not all who spring from Israel who are really Israel. In fact, Paul in Romans gives a very good dissertation of how spiritual Israel are composed, not all of natural Israelites but of spiritual IsraelitesWe believe that during the Great Tribulation the imminent spiritual enemies of God's Kingdom under Christ will be imprisoned while the imminent earthly enemies of God's Kingdom under Christ will be destroyed before the Millennium. During the Millennium will be the restoration of earth and man under the beneficial reign of the Kingdom of God under Christ. I suppose obedience to the kingdom might be optional unless it is a direct hindrance to any aspect of any work done during the Kingdom. In Genesis we are not given any clues of how spiritual Adam was toward Jehovah. Maybe he was and it was not revealed. But if there is any clue in this, there is a danger of simply going along living in wonderful conditions without having any spiritual appreciation of what God has done or provided. But certainly, at the end of the Millennium, that's when the final test comes and that is when each man and woman must take a stand as to whether they will stick to Jehovah or to Satan. The results of that choice being everlasting. :) (Friday Jun 14 | post #308)
JW's what does born again mean?
Thank you. You believe similarly to us with important differences. We don't believe that a third of mankind will be destroyed as you state at Revelation 9 because Revelation 9 is part of the woes changed by the breaking of the seals. The seventh seal, to be exact. This last seal seven angels that made important activities and pronouncements in which a third of several entities are affected, in order. We believe them to be symbolic mention for things. How literal is one to take them remains to be seen in the final analysis. But it appears that these woes are upon the enemies of God, of which a third are "killed" leaving two-thirds awaiting more woes as the last two verses of Revelation 9 brings out. We believe that the Millennial reign of Jesus the earth and man will gradually be restored to the original mandate condition the earth and man was at the time of Eden before the rebellion. In addition, the dead that God remembers will be resurrected so that they can also gradually be restored to the original mandate condition too. At the end of the Millennium, mankind will be perfected to the same level of human perfection Adam and Eve were -- it is at this point that the "dead are alive" because with sin or the effects of sin, mankind is not considered "alive" to the perfect sense God intended. Then Satan is let loose so he can test mankind in their perfect condition just has Satan tested Adam, Eve, and Jesus in their perfect human condition. Then after that test, and the results addressed, is the final issue of God's sovereignty resolved; Satan, his demons, and those that follow him are eliminated; and with the precedence set no long will heaven and earth have to put up with another rebellion of God's way of doing things because it has been proven that any and all manner of disobedience to God's will and purpose, which always turn out to be beneficial to those who listen to them, has always resulted in pain, suffering, death, and disruption to God's loving purposes. :) (Friday Jun 14 | post #307)
how about a non trinity discussion??
I don't deny what he says. But you deny how he was resurrected. He was raised as a spirit. With the kind of power at his disposal, he can pass through walls and doors, and instantly materialize human form in their midst to the extent that they even dared them to prove otherwise using their own senses. Remember, at the Israelite annual Day of Atonement the animal carcasses were burned after the sacrifice never to be used nor recycled for any purpose whatsoever. That pictured Jesus. Get a clue, Dee. :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #1962)
You delude yourself into thinking that Jesus Christ wants a divided body despite his specific and absolutely clear prayer to the contrary. You know the prayer I'm talking about, right? You'll find it at John 17. The Roman Catholic Church has at least been able to remain as a single body in spite of its shortcomings. But right from the start, the Reformers were deeply divided against each other. And the passage of time simply made those divisions worse and more numerous. Even non-christian religions have a better track record! Islam is older than the churches that have come out of the Reformation. It is divided into relatively few groups in comparison! No, beckyss! It’s not normal for a religious group - especially Christianity - to fragment into 25,000 (definable) churches, sects, and groups in less than 500 years! (The 500 year anniversary of Martin Luther's posting of his Ninety-Five Theses will be in 2017; which sparked the Protestant Reformation.) It is getting worse in modern times with sub-churches, splinter groups, and free-range Christians as yourself popping up in the hundreds yearly deciding their own way to have Christianity and Salvation that is on their terms as they decide to understand it. That is not an improvement to Christianity but quite the opposite. And it is false thinking that that entire confounded mixture of Christians that have barely a teaching or two of the least of importance in common make up the "one" body of ChristThank you. You too! :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #5893)
Then you're wasting your timeYour personal definition is flawed. Church, n: 1. a building designed for public forms of worship, esp Christian worship 2. an occasion of public worship 3. a particular Christian denomination or group of Christian believers Besides other meanings. "Church" is from the Old English "cirice" which is from Late Greek "kurikon " meaning "the Lord's house". Now, if you go to a 'House of the Lord' with a people that has no positive effect whatsoever on your salvation, then I suggest you find a 'House of he Lord' with a people that doesI answered you comprehensively on this point a couple of weeks ago. It appears you simply ignored all of it or put it out of yuor mind. Not surprising. Scripture says this about the church. Eph 5:25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up His life for her While talking to husbands about a vital lesson, Paul shows that Christ loved and died for the church. While I hear preachers say that Christ "died for you", let's be a little more realistic than that. Christ died to save those who want to join him in service to his Father. That is why God gave Jesus Christ authority. Paul started this epistle stating that fact. Eph 1:22 God has put all things under the authority of Christ and has made Him head over all things for the benefit of the church. So, with Jesus working with the church, we can be closer to him by being in and part of the church. Right? Christianity was not created so we can each do it alone. As imperfect sinful human beings we need a source to learn, rebuild, be encouraged, and the need of community for guidance and disciple. Spiritual people in the church with art of wise words and reliance of the Bible helps us by giving us spiritual guidance, or comfort, or strengthening, disciple or anything which only the church community provides. Being many is better than being alone. And being alone without the church is being alone without the head of the church - Jesus Christ. That's Scripture, beckyss. Argue around it all you want but that's the way it is. :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #5892)
You say the Trinity is in the Bible? So, where is it? You keep dodging that it is there. But such dodges become evident when you keep saying it is there without SAYING WHERE. It is really easier for you to simply state where is the Trinity teaching explicitly taught in the Scriptures rather than blab incessantly your "assurances " that it isFirst, you never asked these questions. These are part of your pre-canned rubber-stamp posts collection. Second, you are changing the subject in order to get out of answering where in the Bible is the explicit Trinity teaching found. That goes to show that it is impossible for you to make an unbiased examination of both the lack of biblical evidence for the Trinity and the abundant biblical evidence for God who is One Himself! :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #5891)
how about a non trinity discussion??
No. I made a logical conclusion. Try it sometime! Yes, blood was made for atonement. But the blood came from a BODY, did it not? What happened to the BODY at the annual Day of Atonement? And didn't the annual Day of Atonement showed the pattern for Jesus' sacrifice? I always catch you, Dee. You are so caught up on your anti-JW ranting you look silly when I counter you with the simple things. LOL (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #1960)
how about a non trinity discussion??
I have in many posts. You just happen to pick a post where I didn't? Selective reading in order to make short-sighted accusations, again? :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #1959)
Once saved, always saved? Mat 24:13 But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will be saved. Not according to Jesus' words at Matthew 24:13. :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #648)
I've had conversations with individuals. And the Opposition always felt they had the freedom to "join" the conversation. So I avail myself to the same "privilege ". As I have shown, theos at John 1:1c does not have the definate article. Therefore, "theos" is a quality of the Word, not an identity of the WordJohn 20:28 :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #647)
Sharing of titles doesn't make them the same person anymore than Nebuchanezzar being "King of kings" makes him Jesus Christ as well. See my post 550 for additional info. As regards Revelation 22. Consider what has transpired earlier: NIV Re 1: 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. At Revelation 22:12-13, its own is God, the Almighty again due to the same term of 1:8 earlier. At Revelation 22:20 there is no Alpha and the Omega mention. :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #646)
Another one of your pre-canned responses, Dee? I've read the Bible myself carefully to know that God is a 'God of Love'. None of your hogwash nor your stereotypical propaganda is enough to convince me that God would actually do such a thing and put people into a living torture for all eternity! As I said, I'm still surprised that people still believe in the slander even though nowadays Hellfire as been reformed into something "politically correct". Nevertheless, it is a slander that God is wicked enough to punish people consciously for all eternity. That's your "Trinity God", not my God Jehovah. :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #1402)
So are butterflies, jellyfish, worms, moths, and bacteria. There is no evidence that they will be resurrected going into a new paradise. :) (Tuesday Jun 11 | post #1401)
As verse 20 continues... 20 “Collect yourselves and come. Bring yourselves up close together, YOU escapees from the nations. Those carrying the wood of their carved image have not come to any knowledge, neither have those praying to a god that cannot save. 21 Make YOUR report and YOUR presentation. Yes, let them consult together in unity. Who has caused this to be heard from a long time ago? [Who] has reported it from that very time? Is it not I, Jehovah, besides whom there is no other God; a righteous God and a Savior, there being none excepting me? "Collect yourselves and come." "let them consult together in unity" And that's what the WTS has endevored to do with their publications. To unifiy people to Jehovah of whom "there is no other God; a righteous God and a Savior,". As I said before, the idea of "church" is in the New Testament. By the way, I enjoyed your dramatics regarding JWs "walking in shackles" etc. JWs feel much the same way of how people are "walking in shackles" of religious systems that misrepresent Jehovah God, teach doctrines that are not found in the Bible, reduce service to God to litergy rather than lifestyle, that keep people in Biblical ignorance, and a whole lot more. So rather than "walking in shackles", you see us fearlessly going from door to door spreading the Good News of God's Kingdom. To the extent that we had to take it to the US Supreme Court (and similarly in other countries) to uphold, defend, and enhance everyone's universal choice as regards the free exercise of Freedom of Religion. Not bad for those whom you classified as being "walking in shackles", eh? LOL! :) (Saturday Jun 1 | post #4654)
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