Trayvon Martin Debate - Maple Heights, OH

Racial injustice. The kid was executed. Why? Because he was black. Why? Because blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Therefore, Zimmerman thought him to be a criminal because of his attire and race. Zimmerman initiated contact. He should be prosecuted.

Wouldn't have happened if this was a white kid. Why? Because there is no reason to profile white kids for the most part. So the racial component cannot be denied. Trayvon died because black thugs make it hard for regular black people to come and go in white society.

There is no doubt that Zimmerman's action were a result of his fear of black thug culture. He was wrong in this case and should be held responsible.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

ttp://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dp p/news/state/witness-martin-at tacked-zimmerman-03232012

What a tangled web we weave. Now a lot of questions have answers such as: why did Zimmerman have a bloody nose and grass stains on his clothing? Why did the police not charge Zimmerman?

Listening to the audio tape, Zimmerman was puffing a bit following Martin. After the dispatcher told him to back off, you can hear Zimmerman's breathing slow down. So what likely happened?

According to this witness, it seems as if Zimmerman was walking back towards his vehicle and was violently attacked by Martin. If that's the case, he had every legal right to use deadly force.

You have to love the media in all this. Not only did they give faulty reporting, but they keep showing pictures of this little Angel when he was 13 years old or so. It turns out, this little angel was 6'2" at 190 lbs.

Okay...... so maybe he felt threatened by Zimmerman, and decided to attack him preemptively. If that was the case, why did he continue his conversation on the cell phone with his girlfriend instead of calling the police?

But the problem is Zimmerman following him. Think back to when you were a teen, how would you react? Would you be quick to call the police like you would now? Probably not. That's why you made a point in our drug debate about kids being kids.

This say Trayvon ATACKED Zimmerman. Winning a fight does not mean that you attacked your opponent. The witness only states he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.

This is just bad. Zimmerman should have just called 911 and left it at that. He gives legal gun owners a bad name. And how are you on neighborhood watch and don't know the streets? Seriously? That sound fishy right there. I know every single street in my neighborhood backwards and forwards.

Not to be funny, but it doesn't help that Zimmerman looks Hispanic. Trayvon could have very well felt he was in danger by some "vato" following him down the street.

Just imagine if that was you. Your walking and you see Zimmerman following you. Guy looks Hispanic. You might get worried. Where blacks are concerned, whites rarely attack us anymore, but Hispanics do.

I'm an adult. If Zimmerman was following me, I would have called 911 to cover my bases and probably pulled on him as soon as he exited the truck. I would have thought some Mexican was about to jack me.

The problem is, these black kids think it's cool to walk around wearing hoodies covering their faces because that's how the thugs and gas station robbers wear theirs. And because of this, if I walk in my neighborhood and see one, two or more black kids walking up the street with hoodies on covering their faces, what am I supposed to think?'Oh, now there's a bunch of good kids that are probably going to one of their houses to play x-box?' No! I'm thinking that I'm probably going to get shot. And why is that? Anybody know? These kids put this on themselves. I have some hoodies too. I wear them with the hoods down though. The only time I have the hood on my head is when I'm shoveling snow and it's 20 out and windy. I never walk into a store with it on my head. Even though I'm white, I'm not going to cause any problems by hiding behind the hood. If kids want to act like thugs, they'll be treated accordingly.

With that kid in Florida, I just heard what you heard, xxxrayted. I heard that the media made it sound like it was all Zimmerman's fault. Well, yeah, he started it. When he called the police and said he was following a kid, the dispatcher told him,'We don't need you to do that.' So, Zimmerman should have backed off right there but apparently, he didn't. And the kid that the media portray as such a nice little kid, now it's coming out that the kid's 6'2" and he attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman is supposed to have bruises from the attack. He shouldn't have been tailing Martin, no, but Martin should have done what kids do best, take off running!

It took one month so the police and Zimmerman could come with all of two people to speak for him ...He was NEVER ARRESTED so any evidence is tainted and highly questionable....It took them this long to cover up and lie.

xxxrayted wrote:

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT
ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.
The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.
Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.
It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.
Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
But one man's testimony could be key for the police.
"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.
His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.
Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.
Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.
ttp://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dp p/news/state/witness-martin-at tacked-zimmerman-03232012
What a tangled web we weave. Now a lot of questions have answers such as: why did Zimmerman have a bloody nose and grass stains on his clothing? Why did the police not charge Zimmerman?
Listening to the audio tape, Zimmerman was puffing a bit following Martin. After the dispatcher told him to back off, you can hear Zimmerman's breathing slow down. So what likely happened?
According to this witness, it seems as if Zimmerman was walking back towards his vehicle and was violently attacked by Martin. If that's the case, he had every legal right to use deadly force.
You have to love the media in all this. Not only did they give faulty reporting, but they keep showing pictures of this little Angel when he was 13 years old or so. It turns out, this little angel was 6'2" at 190 lbs.
Okay...... so maybe he felt threatened by Zimmerman, and decided to attack him preemptively. If that was the case, why did he continue his conversation on the cell phone with his girlfriend instead of calling the police?

Had Enough BS wrote:

The problem is, these black kids think it's cool to walk around wearing hoodies covering their faces because that's how the thugs and gas station robbers wear theirs. And because of this, if I walk in my neighborhood and see one, two or more black kids walking up the street with hoodies on covering their faces, what am I supposed to think?'Oh, now there's a bunch of good kids that are probably going to one of their houses to play x-box?' No! I'm thinking that I'm probably going to get shot. And why is that? Anybody know? These kids put this on themselves. I have some hoodies too. I wear them with the hoods down though. The only time I have the hood on my head is when I'm shoveling snow and it's 20 out and windy. I never walk into a store with it on my head. Even though I'm white, I'm not going to cause any problems by hiding behind the hood. If kids want to act like thugs, they'll be treated accordingly.
With that kid in Florida, I just heard what you heard, xxxrayted. I heard that the media made it sound like it was all Zimmerman's fault. Well, yeah, he started it. When he called the police and said he was following a kid, the dispatcher told him,'We don't need you to do that.' So, Zimmerman should have backed off right there but apparently, he didn't. And the kid that the media portray as such a nice little kid, now it's coming out that the kid's 6'2" and he attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman is supposed to have bruises from the attack. He shouldn't have been tailing Martin, no, but Martin should have done what kids do best, take off running!

But doesn't Martin get to "stand his ground." Some nut was following him around the neighborhood, what would you do when the guy got out the car?

Wait for it.....

wait for it........

To "check" the street sign of a neighborhood he has been living in for quite some time. LOL He needed a better cover story for why he exited the vehicle.

mapleman wrote:

But the problem is Zimmerman following him. Think back to when you were a teen, how would you react? Would you be quick to call the police like you would now? Probably not. That's why you made a point in our drug debate about kids being kids.
This say Trayvon ATACKED Zimmerman. Winning a fight does not mean that you attacked your opponent. The witness only states he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.
This is just bad. Zimmerman should have just called 911 and left it at that. He gives legal gun owners a bad name. And how are you on neighborhood watch and don't know the streets? Seriously? That sound fishy right there. I know every single street in my neighborhood backwards and forwards.
Not to be funny, but it doesn't help that Zimmerman looks Hispanic. Trayvon could have very well felt he was in danger by some "vato" following him down the street.
Just imagine if that was you. Your walking and you see Zimmerman following you. Guy looks Hispanic. You might get worried. Where blacks are concerned, whites rarely attack us anymore, but Hispanics do.
I'm an adult. If Zimmerman was following me, I would have called 911 to cover my bases and probably pulled on him as soon as he exited the truck. I would have thought some Mexican was about to jack me.

In the first place, we didn't have cell phones when we were kids. But if we did, I would have called police first--not attack somebody unless they attacked me and I had to defend myself. Of course, Martin was too busy talking on the phone with his girlfriend. He was so worried, he just couldn't hang up with her and call police himself.

Secondly, Zimmerman looks Hispanic because he is Hispanic. There is no law that you can't follow somebody in your neighborhood, nor is there a law that states you have the right to attack somebody simply for being behind you.

You must think I was born yesterday if you expect me to believe that Zimmerman called the police, then attacked Martin, and was then losing the fight screaming "Help me, help me." I mean....... come on now.

mapleman wrote:

<quoted text>
But doesn't Martin get to "stand his ground." Some nut was following him around the neighborhood, what would you do when the guy got out the car?
Wait for it.....
wait for it........
To "check" the street sign of a neighborhood he has been living in for quite some time. LOL He needed a better cover story for why he exited the vehicle.

Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes. Why did Zimmerman have to keep following Martin even though the dispatcher told him not to. And why did Martin have to attack Zimmerman? Did Martin keep hitting Zimmerman even when Zimmerman pulled his gun out?

In my opinion, to me, Zimmerman just looks like he's a bully. He has that kind of face. And Martin, well, the media just seems to show pictures of him looking like a little kid. That little kid was kicked out of school for having weed on his possession though.

And those two knuckleheads, Jackson and Sharpton aren't helping the situation. The only time those two vultures appear is if a black is killed by a white. How many times have they shown up when a black is killed by another black? Did they show up when that gang of blacks shot the two white guys in their heads a few years ago in Perk Park? Why not? Those two are a couple of freeloaders that just suck all the wind out of situations and just make it worse. I'm just glad as all hell that Zimmerman's a Hispanic and not white. But I don't think Jackson, Sharpton or 99.9% of the blacks know that.

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
In the first place, we didn't have cell phones when we were kids. But if we did, I would have called police first--not attack somebody unless they attacked me and I had to defend myself. Of course, Martin was too busy talking on the phone with his girlfriend. He was so worried, he just couldn't hang up with her and call police himself.
Secondly, Zimmerman looks Hispanic because he is Hispanic. There is no law that you can't follow somebody in your neighborhood, nor is there a law that states you have the right to attack somebody simply for being behind you.
You must think I was born yesterday if you expect me to believe that Zimmerman called the police, then attacked Martin, and was then losing the fight screaming "Help me, help me." I mean....... come on now.

In one post you go on and on about kids and how they can't think for themselves, now Martin is supposed to think like an adult. A couple days ago you blamed bad choices you made as a teen for getting yourself hooked on smokes. Your whole anti-drug argument is about kids and their bad choices.

Zimmerman APPROACHED Martin. He had no business following and approaching Martin. Who wouldn't be spooked in that situation? He then was getting his fat a$$ kicked and killed him.

Remember, "stand your ground." How come it goes for Zimmerman and not Martin. Serial killers, robbers, kidnappers, and other creeps follow people around like that.

Another thing. While your waiting for the police to arrive what do you do when some stranger who has been following you approaches you? Wait for them to shove a gun in your face? How naive.

Had Enough BS wrote:

<quoted text>
Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes. Why did Zimmerman have to keep following Martin even though the dispatcher told him not to. And why did Martin have to attack Zimmerman? Did Martin keep hitting Zimmerman even when Zimmerman pulled his gun out?
In my opinion, to me, Zimmerman just looks like he's a bully. He has that kind of face. And Martin, well, the media just seems to show pictures of him looking like a little kid. That little kid was kicked out of school for having weed on his possession though.
And those two knuckleheads, Jackson and Sharpton aren't helping the situation. The only time those two vultures appear is if a black is killed by a white. How many times have they shown up when a black is killed by another black? Did they show up when that gang of blacks shot the two white guys in their heads a few years ago in Perk Park? Why not? Those two are a couple of freeloaders that just suck all the wind out of situations and just make it worse. I'm just glad as all hell that Zimmerman's a Hispanic and not white. But I don't think Jackson, Sharpton or 99.9% of the blacks know that.

Does Zimmerman act like a tough guy and approach him if he isn't armed? He was following the kid and approached him and the kid reacted. Take it from the kid's point of view, you don't know what this guy is going to do to you. Call 911? How many teenage males would do that? Teenage males think they are invincible.

Some guy is following me and gets out of the car approaching me I am assuming robbery and/or assault and going for my weapon. What other possible reason could there be for someone following me at night and then approaching me?

Let's reverse this. You are walking down the street and some black guy is following you. Finally, he stops his car and approaches. Think quick. What do you do? He's getting closer. Closer. He is bigger than you. What do you do? It's night and he has no business approaching you. Quick....what do you do? You are 6'2 and a boney 150. He is 5'9 and 250. quick....before he reaches for something. What to do?

It is bad when Jackson and Sharpton get involved. They are like Rush. They pimp controversy. They pimp race. You leave them out of this and you have a more sympathetic white America. If something like this happened to my son, Jesse and Al wouldn't be allowed anywhere near any of my events. I would have respectively asked them not to speak on 20 news shows about my situation.

Had Enough BS wrote:

<quoted text>
Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes. Why did Zimmerman have to keep following Martin even though the dispatcher told him not to. And why did Martin have to attack Zimmerman? Did Martin keep hitting Zimmerman even when Zimmerman pulled his gun out?
In my opinion, to me, Zimmerman just looks like he's a bully. He has that kind of face. And Martin, well, the media just seems to show pictures of him looking like a little kid. That little kid was kicked out of school for having weed on his possession though.
And those two knuckleheads, Jackson and Sharpton aren't helping the situation. The only time those two vultures appear is if a black is killed by a white. How many times have they shown up when a black is killed by another black? Did they show up when that gang of blacks shot the two white guys in their heads a few years ago in Perk Park? Why not? Those two are a couple of freeloaders that just suck all the wind out of situations and just make it worse. I'm just glad as all hell that Zimmerman's a Hispanic and not white. But I don't think Jackson, Sharpton or 99.9% of the blacks know that.

Exactly. Before this story came out, there was another one about a 13 year old white kid who was chased to his door by two black adults or late teens. They dumped gasoline on him and said "This is what you get white boy" and then set him on fire.

Did you hear about this story? Likely not. It didn't make it very far in the mainstream media. Did the Pink Panthers offer a reward for these two black guys death or capture? Did DumBama comment on the story or say that white kid is what his son would look like if he had one. Did Jessie or Al even comment on this? Of course not. It's not one of their own who was harmed.

mapleman wrote:

<quoted text>
In one post you go on and on about kids and how they can't think for themselves, now Martin is supposed to think like an adult. A couple days ago you blamed bad choices you made as a teen for getting yourself hooked on smokes. Your whole anti-drug argument is about kids and their bad choices.
Zimmerman APPROACHED Martin. He had no business following and approaching Martin. Who wouldn't be spooked in that situation? He then was getting his fat a$$ kicked and killed him.
Remember, "stand your ground." How come it goes for Zimmerman and not Martin. Serial killers, robbers, kidnappers, and other creeps follow people around like that.
Another thing. While your waiting for the police to arrive what do you do when some stranger who has been following you approaches you? Wait for them to shove a gun in your face? How naive.

Are you making this up as you go along? Yes, Zimmerman did follow Martin, but in no report was it said that Zimmerman approached him. According to police reports, Zimmerman was by his car when Martin attacked him. According to Zimmerman, Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem with him. Zimmerman said "no." Martin replied "Well you do now" and that's when Zimmerman was attacked. It was reported that after Zimmerman obeyed police and stopped following Matin, he returned to his car. He never seen Martin come at him until he was next to Zimmerman's car. You can hear Zimmerman tell dispatch that the kid ran. Do you think this overweight man chased him down????

Again, if Martin was so concerned about Zimmerman, why didn't Martin call the police instead of Zimmerman? If somebody is following you around that you are scared of. Do you attack him or call the police?

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly. Before this story came out, there was another one about a 13 year old white kid who was chased to his door by two black adults or late teens. They dumped gasoline on him and said "This is what you get white boy" and then set him on fire.
Did you hear about this story? Likely not. It didn't make it very far in the mainstream media. Did the Pink Panthers offer a reward for these two black guys death or capture? Did DumBama comment on the story or say that white kid is what his son would look like if he had one. Did Jessie or Al even comment on this? Of course not. It's not one of their own who was harmed.

Although we will never agree on this case, I agree with what you say here.

Whites -- outside of some police -- don't attack blacks anymore. Hasn't been like that since I was a child. If black "leaders" would be more honest about situations, more whites would be open to deal with racism when it happens -- like the racial sentencing laws of crack vs coke.

There is a reason why King and X are dead and Sharpton and Jackson live on. Sharpton and Jackson help keep a racial divide, where King and Malcolm helped heal.

Plus if you make a mistake like Sharpton and Jackson did on the Duke case, get on TV and apologize. They are race pimps; they are disgrace. They turn whites that would have marched with us during the Civil Rights movement against us. If black leaders were like them 50 years ago, I'd be a second-class citizen worried about getting lynched. No movement would have happened.

There is only one reason people like Al and Jessie are popular: black people listen to them. Their followers never question their motives.

What happened here is that blacks allowed the media to turn this into a racial incident when it was not one. This had nothing to do with race. But the media understands that if they do turn it into race, it sells papers, it gets people signing on to their internet sites, their media blogs become very active, there are marches in the streets and yes, physical threats being made.

Is this about a black kid getting gunned down? No. It happens every single day. It's who pulled the trigger that made this a national event. And when white people witness this, it angers them because they come to realize black people are way more racist than white people. Imagine if these races were reversed, and had the same media attention and death threats from some idiotic white biker gang.

This was about race. Zimmerman profiled the kid because of race. Had it been a white kid, he wouldn't have profiled him. None of his prior 911 calls were about white kids. See a pattern?

I am one of the few people who look at this case truthfully. The kid was profiled because blacks commit more crime. How often have you heard that stated? Especially by a black person.

If white people were honest, they would see this is about race. If black people were honest, we would see that our disproportionate amount of crime make people profile us. This can lead to bad things happening.

When I find white people like you who don't see this as a racial issue, I know they are in denial. When I find black people who don't admit there is a reason why he was profiled, I know they are in denial.

First off, Zimmerman is a minority himself. Secondly, this gated development had mostly minorities. White people only make up about 47% of this complex. A black kid was not that unusual to see there.

Do you really think that if Martin was in jeans and tee shirt, Zimmerman would have tailed him? I don't think so. Martin did that same old stupid hoodie thing because that's the "cool" way for black gangsters to dress. And while this was a very diverse community, not many walked around with ghetto clothes on.

Now..... do you have a site that has records of the race of people Zimmerman frequently called police on? Because that would be the first I heard of it.

Didn't you just say blacks are racist? lol Now you are telling me it makes a difference if Zimmerman is a minority? Which is it? Can minorities be racist or not? You may not know this, but blacks and Hispanics aren't the best of friends.

So it was a combination of DRESS and RACE. You just admitted it. Had Martin been dressed in jeans and a tee shirt, nothing; however, since he was dressed like a "black gangster" Zimmerman followed.

Case closed. Race was a factor. It was RACE and Dress.

And Zimmerman has over 40 calls to 911, some were about black kids.

Now you're changing your story to "some" black kids. If the community was mostly minority, don't you think it would reason that half of his calls were about minorities?

Martin was a visitor at the complex. He was staying with his uncle while he was serving a suspension from school. Obviously, his parent(s) were not home to supervise him...... I don't know. In any event, I don't find it all that unusual to suspect a stranger dressed like that to be up to no good. If you lived in a gated community where people don't dress like that, and you've never seen this person before, you mean to tell me you would not give that individual a second look?

Community Watch Block programs encourage citizens to call the police. They state that even if somebody is not breaking the law, but looks suspicious, call the police and let them know. That's what Zimmerman did. People do that here in Maple Heights. I hear it on the scanner all the time.

I would also be willing to bet that if this was a strange white kid that was walking around at night in one of those stupid hoodies, Zimmerman would have done the same thing. After all, as you stated, he made over 40 calls as a Community Watch captain.

Were they able to pull any information off of the phone call with his girlfriend? I heard that Trayvon was talking with his girlfriend while walking home from the store. I am hoping they are able to use this phone call to confirm he was unfairly targeted.

All they could really do is trace that there was indeed a phone call, but phone companies don't record your calls. The case is not about whether he was targeted or not. The case is about whether Zimmerman had the legal right to defend himself with his firearm.