Obama-Marriage Debate - Clarksburg, WV

At least the gays aren't breeding more ignorant, bigoted rednecks. We already have plenty of those.
I know excessive cut-and paste is frowned upon, but this guy has done way more research and expresses it more eloquently than I could, I agree with him, and have a lot of yard work to do while it isn't raining. The following is an excerpt from the blog at this link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/06/1089... The whole blog and comments are worth a thorough reading (just as some people would say about the Bible).

Homosexuality is wrong because my someone told me my ancient holy book said so

Yes, this is a specific reference to the Christian Bible. And yes, the comment is aspersive toward the gay-hating Christians who rely on what their pastor or Bible "study" group leader or Pat Robertson (who has to be on his last resurrection potion) says, no matter how ignorant, uninformed, or just plain wrong. And from this intellectual egregiousness has risen the view that.... everybody, say it with me..... "Teh Gay™ is icky." As John Spong once said:


"Let me say this carefully, but clearly. Anyone who elevates their prejudices to the position where they are defended as the will of God is evil. Anybody who justifies their denigration of another person's being based upon a quotation from an ancient sacred text called the Word of God is simply out of touch with contemporary scholarship. Anybody who will not open themselves to the new knowledge readily available in medical and scientific circles because it calls into question their uninformed attitudes is profoundly ignorant." -- John Spong

There are exactly six problematic passages in the Bible, which fundies have used to denigrate GLBT's. Volumes have been written on the bad translations {from homophobe King James onward} and the contextual, societal meanings of the mistranslated words. Those 6 "clobber passages" (and their "problems") are:

Genesis 19:1-5 -- the story of Lot and the city of Sodom. He was the guy who offered his virgin daughters up for gang rape before leaving the city, getting drunk, and then having sex with his daughters. He was the hero of the story. Fundies will often say that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality, but sadly for them, the Bible says that the sin of sodom was actually inhospitality {cf Ezekiel 16:49, Matthew 10: 5-15, Wisdom 19:13-14}.

Leviticus 18:22 -- the "it's abomination" passage. The Hebrew word being used as "abomination" {to-evah} actually means "ritually unclean."

Leviticus 20:13 -- the "it's abomination and we should kill them" passage. Also referred to as the "fatwa against gays" passage. This one suffers from the mistranslation of "abomination" {cf previous entry} and the Hebrew "qa-desh" {male temple prostitute}.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 -- the "abusers of themselves with mankind" verse. The original Greek word meant "male prostitute."

1 Timothy 1:9-10 -- the "defile themselves with mankind" verse -- mistranslation of the Greek "arsenokoitai"

Romans 1:21-31 -- this is the weird one where God taught some people a lesson for being naughty by giving them "up to vile passions." Mistranslation of the Greek phrase "para physin," which means "contrary to that which is innate."

For the detailed explanation, check out:

Helminiak, Daniel What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality, Alamo Square Press, 1994 ISBN-13: 978-1886360099

I don't see what the big deal is with marriage to begin with. I personally don't need a piece of paper and a vow before anyone to know or prove that I love my spouse. For all you who are quoting the bible, I hope you don't lead your married lives by the book. If you do, I feel bad for your wives, because according to your "good book" wives are submissives and are consider the lesser sex.

Furthermore, religion has persecuted many for their choices in life. For example, certain religions will not marry a person who has had children out of wedlock. Catholics who marry a person of another religion must sumbit to the religion and pledge to raise their family with Catholic beliefs in order to be married with a Catholic service. Religion is a long standing "law" within this country, just as it is with others. However, I do agree with those who feel religion should hold no merit with this topic. I believe that if two people are in love and wish to spend the rest of their lives together, they should have the choice to be married in anyway that seems fit to them.

Those that are arguing against gay married should step back and put yourself in those shoes of those who are fighting for it. Set a side your religious beliefs and personal feelings on the matter and think how you would feel if you were denied the right to be married to a person because of your sexual orientation, even if you are straight.

Please, before you jump on me about my post, read what I said and have a decent answer besides the "bible says". I am not posting to have a battle of religious mumbo jumbo. I am just posting some food for thought that hopefully will allow you to think outside of your shell and keep an open mind as one should always do.

It's not of nature. Marriage is to procreate.

wvtuck wrote:

I am saying on here that this issue has not and will not change my mind. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA even if that means leaving that vote empty. I have not yet decided on who I want to vote for but I do know it will not be Obama.

This is the first Presidential election that I can't cast a vote in. Obama is a socialist that will bring us into a Greece situation. Romney is a mormon. mormons pledge allegiance to their cult faith first. No vote to either. Maybe we could start a no confidence party.

wvtuck wrote:

<quoted text>
That just shows how falls doctrine starts. 1Sa 14:49 Now the sons of Saul were Jonathan, and Ishui, and Melchi-shua: and the names of his two daughters were these; the name of the first-born Merab, and the name of the younger Michal:
Jonathan was the son of King Saul who David was a soldier for. The term the soul of Jonathan: The modesty, piety, and courage of David were so congenial to the character of the amiable Jonathan, that they attracted his most cordial esteem and affection; so that the most intimate friendship subsisted between them from that time, and they loved each other with pure hearts fervently. Their friendship could not be affected by the common vicissitudes of life; and it exemplifies by fact what the ancients have written on the subject. Meaning in today's terms Jonathan and David was so close friends that they was like brothers. If you was to read the bible you will know that anytime it talks about having sex it says "....knew them" ie Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
There is an early verse that talks about homosexuality; Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called to Lot, and said to him, Where are the men who came in to thee this night? bring them out to us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door to them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. If you remember God destroyed Sodom because of there wicked ways.
I can go through and list many a reason why it is a sin. As for the secular side of the argument I am against all same sex marriage. period.

Have to agree with all of this.

Carl wrote:

It's not of nature. Marriage is to procreate.

Maybe back in the 1950's...

Imprtbrb wrote:

<quoted text>
The issue is more about taxes. which are not of nature either, so I guess you are right

What do you mean more about taxes?

C-burg Resident wrote:

I don't see what the big deal is with marriage to begin with. I personally don't need a piece of paper and a vow before anyone to know or prove that I love my spouse. For all you who are quoting the bible, I hope you don't lead your married lives by the book. If you do, I feel bad for your wives, because according to your "good book" wives are submissives and are consider the lesser sex.
Furthermore, religion has persecuted many for their choices in life. For example, certain religions will not marry a person who has had children out of wedlock. Catholics who marry a person of another religion must sumbit to the religion and pledge to raise their family with Catholic beliefs in order to be married with a Catholic service. Religion is a long standing "law" within this country, just as it is with others. However, I do agree with those who feel religion should hold no merit with this topic. I believe that if two people are in love and wish to spend the rest of their lives together, they should have the choice to be married in anyway that seems fit to them.
Those that are arguing against gay married should step back and put yourself in those shoes of those who are fighting for it. Set a side your religious beliefs and personal feelings on the matter and think how you would feel if you were denied the right to be married to a person because of your sexual orientation, even if you are straight.
Please, before you jump on me about my post, read what I said and have a decent answer besides the "bible says". I am not posting to have a battle of religious mumbo jumbo. I am just posting some food for thought that hopefully will allow you to think outside of your shell and keep an open mind as one should always do.

I take it no one had an answer not related to religion for my post above, haha. TYPICAL!

Its a shame Obama's dad wasnt GAY!

There is a lot more stuff out there that people should worry about other than who is marring who

definitely no, totally immoral and non-biblical

What about Leviticus 19:28--no tattoos? A sin is a sin. Should tattoos be illegal? An abomination? There are LOTS of sins in Leviticus ... how many do you break while condemning homosexuals? You can't pick and choose, you know. Just a thought.

Im Gay and have been living with the same man now for 33 yrs as a couple . What worries us is that we may be forbidden our rights to see or help each other in the case of hospital issues yes we have signed papers to the let each other be soley responsible in case of any accident but do you realize that they really may not hold up in a court situation in wv where family can say no life support or yes to life support and our partner is left out of the decision making just because we are gay and have no LEGAL marriage . we believe in God but do any of you who post bible passages really LIVE by the book or just when you find it convenient? Come on dont let your church practices say what a person can do in the case of marriage . We will let God decide whats best for us at the time of our death . If he chooses not to allow us into heaven so be it ,but for now here on earth We need to be able to Live our lies as we see fit and by the laws of the states and country has in place.

I read all your posts and I see a few things in common.
1. I will not let this issue determine who I am voting for. I decided long before this that I was not voting for President Obama because of other issues I have with him.

2. As for living what the Bible teaches, I try to daily but as for everyone I fail alot, I don't pick and choose my sins and I do not judge anybody who sins. In the end we all must answer to God for our sins and the answer of everyone else is doing it will not work. Gods law is the same yesterday, today and tomarrow. Everyone knows it is illegal to buy and sell pot, but when someone gets arrested for doing it what would happen if they told the judge that every body else is also doing it, he would laugh and throw the book at him.

3. As for the posts about Lev 18:12 the word abomination means horrible sin not any type of murder. God does not command us to kill anyone no matter what they have done.

Any one can take verses of the Bible and twist it to fit their views, even satan tried to do it when Jesus was in the wilderness Mathew 4:1-11

EVERBODY has the RIGHT to CHOOSE WHO THEY WANT TO SPEAK for them in case of an accident. A marriage license is not going to grantee that right, there are many court cases where family members was able to over rule a husbands or wifes decision when it comes to life support. As I said before the laws for a civil union should be changed to let all partners, homosexual and straight, to have the same rights as a married couple. Do not make the church have to marry people that they do not agree with.

Homosexuals should be robbed of everything they own, recieve no rights of equal protection by good honest Amerikan Cristian Heterosexuals in State, county, and municipal offices, and if they dont like it we can always railroad their asses into prision... I mean This isnt the 1600's anymore, sometimes we have to suffer a witch to live and all... in public...

O yea, and the mexicans too

"God does not command us to kill anyone no matter what they have done." Surely you need to look at that bible a little more carefully ... there are MANY time God commands us to kill ... Typical Christian ...

we should not allow homo's to do anything ...they just go around rapein kids and trying to turn everyone gay to rape each other ...sad and sick no to evil no to gays

Rumer Mill wrote:

Homosexuals should be robbed of everything they own, recieve no rights of equal protection by good honest Amerikan Cristian Heterosexuals in State, county, and municipal offices, and if they dont like it we can always railroad their asses into prision... I mean This isnt the 1600's anymore, sometimes we have to suffer a witch to live and all... in public...
O yea, and the mexicans too

In case anyone was wondering... I was trying to express how rediculous some of you people sound... For all the haters, I hear they are working on a pill that will fix you :)

Rumer Mill wrote:

<quoted text>
In case anyone was wondering... I was trying to express how rediculous some of you people sound... For all the haters, I hear they are working on a pill that will fix you :)

I heard you wanted to take all the homosexuals and place them on unstable sidewalks, so that eventually they'd all fall through into condemned cellars and die.

Beavis wrote:

<quoted text>
I heard you wanted to take all the homosexuals and place them on unstable sidewalks, so that eventually they'd all fall through into condemned cellars and die.

Your soooo funny Beavis, sooo funny! I really missed your, wit? How the hell you been... Planning a wedding I hear, Congratulations!!!