Health Care Debate - Marianna, FL

Government cant run anything right, it cost to much, have you read the bill I have. It's noting more than a pure power grab (Control).

Many reasons, but I'm tired of tax payers carrying the burden of so many that refuse to work that are capable. Instead they are having one child after another that they don't even care about.

Speaking of health care, what happened to Dr. Dan Fulmer's practice on Hwy 90?

We are going to have to do something or between Health Care, Insurance Companies, Drug Companies and the Banking Industry we are all going down the tubes. If you guys want to keep paying the CEOs of these businesses huge salaries, pay for them to have lavish vacations, and all the other perks that they have been and will continue to get - then vote against the Health Care option.

We are seeing SO many changes in our country in this day and time. sadly I believe its for the worse. Most of my life is over and I'm not worried for myself but the grandkids will live in a socialist world that I have never known. Maybe since they will never know any difference, it won't be so bad for them. GOD BLESS US ALL.

no clear plan

Wake up folks. All you are seeing in the health care reform debate is merely the pendulum swinging back. It's swinging back from the past 20+ years of giving more and more of our nation's assets to the very wealthy. Take a look around and count how many of them you see. NONE. They don't live among us, certainly not in rural Florida. They are not like us, although they depend upon us to deliver their wealth to them through partisan politics. They are so disconnected from our country that they don't care if we're becoming a third-world nation. They don't care about unemployment, or wars, or health care reform for us. Wake up and stop carrying water for those wealthy people who don't know, socialize with, or even care about you.

Investing in our citizens makes us stronger. We've spent decades investing in other countries while our own people have dropped to third-world status. Our standard of living is based upon debt, not prosperity. We must build our own nation up again and this is but one rung in that ladder. Failure is simply another step downward in transferring more and more to the most wealthy 1% of our country.

It seems odd that your "vote counter" wouldn't register a "YES" vote when I tried. Perhaps that's why the total reads 17 Oppose vs 3 Support.

Social Security is supposedly in a mess and has been for years. Medicare is going bankrupt and in a mess also, these problems have not been addressed or solved. Why in the world would I want the government to start another National program when it cannot operate and manage these existing two???

Quachita:
You are right, Soc Sec and Medicare are both financially challenged. But it's not because a few huge corporations are skimming billions off the top. It's because they are underfunded for one and overextended in the case of Soc Sec. Both are run by our Congress through public funding and citizen contributions. Nothing happens in either program without Congressional direction, unlike our current health care situation. Both problems will be addressed because they directly impact voters.

However, there is no recourse for citizens with the health care industry. Whatever they decide to charge, we pay or we go uninsured. Do you suppose that's why they aren't in a financial mess?

The current system is untenable and it will be changed. Health care continues to consume more and more of our national wealth which IS a threat to our security in the competitive world today.

I find it odd that those who oppose health care reform don't think the problem is serious enough to offer alternatives. Whenever I see someone attach the reform efforts I now see someone who wants to keep the same dysfunctional, expensive, bloated financial rip-off that we endure today.

Offer a solution, not merely criticism. Only then will your comments be taken seriously. Because this IS a serious problem that WILL be addressed in some way. Standing back and merely complaining about the proposals gets your position nothing. This is serious business and the train is leaving the station. If you have suggestions for the changes that will be taken, offer them. Otherwise, you'll be left behind.

I doubt government controlled healthcare will improve and likely will become worse. The government has no incentive to be profitable or to control expenses. Their jobs are very secure and is loosely based on productivity. What is there incentive not to waste our money and give healthcare benefits to those that just jumped the border. That what's wrong with SS and medicare now, by the way many people receiving those benefits are voters as well. Look at what happened when the State of Florida took over home owner's insurance. Ok, everyone in Florida can now get a home owner's policy "IF" you can afford it (citizens insurance). I don't see how that benefits the poor. Then the state barely curtails there outlandish property taxes and drastically raises the rates on almost every state fee (tags, title, DL, hunting, fishing state park entrance etc etc etc). They are still getting your money, they just sneak out of your change jar. So home owner's insurance companies either left Florida, were kicked out (could not stay without raising rates) and or refused to sign any new policies, less competition means less supply more demand and higher cost. Now that is simple economics.

By the way the rich will always find ways to get richer. Regardless of who is running the show, so please set that concern aside. I wish you knew how hard the laugh when you say changing game will alter the winners. You know who almost always brings the rich to their knees? Themselves, and that would usually be the third generation or a way too greedy moron. You have the first that earns it, the second that respects and third that takes it for granted and losses it all.

I have a suggestion but it will still have severe faults. If the government does take over healthcare require them to be profitable and for those special government jobs to be based on service and productivity. When a persons comes to ER ad gets a bandaid, antispetic and care they pay the actual cost. I don't mean $7 dollars for bandaid,$20 for antiseptic and $200 for the nurse with $25.00 co-pay. That's about how it gets billed out now if you have insurance. Why because we (working class) are paying for all those on welfare who can walk in the ER free for any reason. They go for any and all reasons, why buy cold medicine you can get it free. All they have to do is wait, it's not like they are getting fired for sitting on their ass. For example the USPS is required to be profitable and keeps most consumer cost relatively low. I believe they still need better checks and balances but it beats other government agencies by leaps and bounds. What this means is that the USPS is a FED agency that is not subsidized when it comes to the cost of sending mail and packages. Imagine if those services were free or very low cost (subsidized). It would take forever to send mail/packages and I doubt they would be doing it regardless of hail, sleet or snow. Only the very poor would use their services because it would sucks and take too long. You be an idiot to trust those packages will get there before Christmas. Most would use fedex, ups and many more never heard of because competition would ferocious.

So let me paint the picture as I see it. I the FED takes over healthcare and it is subsidized (free/almost free) then the services will always be subpar and potentially hazardous. Those that can afford it will spend more (better insurance) and still be looking down there noses in disgust. FED hospitals will resemble VET hospitals, just ask any VET. The can explain the horror better than Stephen King. Those dudes get screwed and its the most blatant injustice I have ever witnessed.

Anyway...before it gets said...I work for the state, not USPS.

Thanks for your comments Govt Employee. Here are a couple in response.

First. Yes, Florida's Citizens Insurance is expensive but Florida did not 'take over' home insurance. They created a fund to offer insurance to those who couldn't get insurance (cancelled due to losses, etc) or couldn't afford what was offered. The alternative is not to simply go without insurance, because most people have mortgages that require it. So without Citizens Insurance, many people would be at the mercy of the insurers who set their outrageous rates to begin with. Casualty (home and auto) insurance companies are allowed to 'cherry pick' policies and as a result they take the low-risk and cull the rest. Who cares if you can't find insurance? Well, for many it's only the State who cares. In my own case, our 80 year old home is only insured by one insurer, other than Citizens. I know because I checked. So, having Citizens is no bargain, but it's an alternative to the horrid choices of outrageous premiums or no insurance (not an alternative with a mortgage). Another thing, many national insurers left Florida because they were told that they couldn't just cherry pick policies and take profits year after year from Florida business and then use one or two year losses to justify repeatedly raising rates. Insurance is a tough business, but Floridians were being screwed by national insurers and Citizens was just part of the response to their actions.

You're right about the generational decline of the wealthy. That's simply human nature taking its course. But that doesn't justify sitting idly by why a whole new layer of wealthy take more and more from the working class. I suppose the generational decline is punishment in itself, but I'm not satisfied with telling my grandchildren to wait until their children are around to see justice served for this generation of thieves. It's irresponsible for our generation to not speak out and try to correct the dramatic theft of income and well being that we've seen in my generation. I won't just leave that to my descendants to address. At least I'll be able to say that I spoke up against it when it was happenening and didn't just complain about it years later.

You are off target about the government taking over health care. There is no plan for the government to run hospitals like the postal service example. They won't be the employers of doctors and nurses. However, they will be able to say what an emergency room visit should cost. Who does that now? True, poor people use the ERs like a doctor's office and we all pay for that. What other system would let someone use the most expensive form of health care for free instead of making them use a doctor's office for routine care? This system is broken and totally unregulated. Insurance companies run the system and they like it just as it is. They set the rates and we lose. If you don't like what they charge, go without. Go ahead, try it.(continued)

You're a state employee, as you said. Your insurance is subsidized by the State, big time. So you don't feel the impact, yet. Wait until you retire. Then you'll find out just how much you'll want that government involvement, just like you have now. I'm retired and I used to complain that the State was ripping off retirees with our insurance plan. Now, I realize it's BC/BS. They set the rates and no one can do anything about it but wait until that great Federal program comes along - Medicare. Offer it today and see how fast I would take it rather than the $6000 plus that I pay now, plus co-pays and deductibles. That's YOUR insurance too when you retire, unless the government can find some way to control this runaway health insurance system.

I too feel like Vets get the short end of the stick with the VA system. But did you ever bother to write or call your Congressman to complain about how much they allocated for the VA system? That's where the problem gets addressed. But, ask any veteran if they would exchange their Tricare insurance plan for ANYTHING else out there. That alone tells you just how BAD the government insurance plan is compared to what the rest of us have available.

Underlying all of the problems in the dramatic transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich and the blatant rip off by insurance companies is one driving force - greed. The Bible identifies it as one of the seven deadly sins. Why should we simply look away and pretend it doesn't exist?

(This should have preceded the comments above - the post was too long)

Thanks for your comments Govt Employee. Here are a couple in response.

First. Yes, Florida's Citizens Insurance is expensive but Florida did not 'take over' home insurance. They created a fund to offer insurance to those who couldn't get insurance (cancelled due to losses, etc) or couldn't afford what was offered. The alternative is not to simply go without insurance, because most people have mortgages that require it. So without Citizens Insurance, many people would be at the mercy of the insurers who set their outrageous rates to begin with. Casualty (home and auto) insurance companies are allowed to 'cherry pick' policies and as a result they take the low-risk and cull the rest. Who cares if you can't find insurance? Well, for many it's only the State who cares. In my own case, our 80 year old home is only insured by one insurer, other than Citizens. I know because I checked. So, having Citizens is no bargain, but it's an alternative to the horrid choices of outrageous premiums or no insurance (not an alternative with a mortgage). Another thing, many national insurers left Florida because they were told that they couldn't just cherry pick policies and take profits year after year from Florida business and then use one or two year losses to justify repeatedly raising rates. Insurance is a tough business, but Floridians were being screwed by national insurers and Citizens was just part of the response to their actions.

You're right about the generational decline of the wealthy. That's simply human nature taking its course. But that doesn't justify sitting idly by why a whole new layer of wealthy take more and more from the working class. I suppose the generational decline is punishment in itself, but I'm not satisfied with telling my grandchildren to wait until their children are around to see justice served for this generation of thieves. It's irresponsible for our generation to not speak out and try to correct the dramatic theft of income and well being that we've seen in my generation. I won't just leave that to my descendants to address. At least I'll be able to say that I spoke up against it when it was happenening and didn't just complain about it years later.

You are off target about the government taking over health care. There is no plan for the government to run hospitals like the postal service example. They won't be the employers of doctors and nurses. However, they will be able to say what an emergency room visit should cost. Who does that now? True, poor people use the ERs like a doctor's office and we all pay for that. What other system would let someone use the most expensive form of health care for free instead of making them use a doctor's office for routine care? This system is broken and totally unregulated. Insurance companies run the system and they like it just as it is. They set the rates and we lose. If you don't like what they charge, go without. Go ahead, try it.

7.5 Billion Dollars for Pakistan- And Not A Penny For Social Security Cost of Living Increase.- This was in the news on the same day.Does this make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me! These billions are allocated for "social programs"- in addition to the cost of doing war there. Face it folks, we are soo screwed.

teed wrote:

7.5 Billion Dollars for Pakistan- And Not A Penny For Social Security Cost of Living Increase.- This was in the news on the same day.Does this make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me! These billions are allocated for "social programs"- in addition to the cost of doing war there. Face it folks, we are soo screwed.

They are trying to break the county on purpose so they can get us on the world money system

Obama is crazy!!!

Paying for someone else's health care to me is a slap in the face. I work hard for my money to support (MY) family. Why should I shell out my hard work for people in my mind that are lazy. I understand that some elderly cant afford health care and thats a shame but what about the others that sit on their ass and do nothing and milk this country dry. Im completely oppose this and tired of supporting lazy people.

After reading all these posts I finally got it. Health care reform is a communist plot to get us on the world money system, while giving lazy folks free health care, creating a Stephen King horror health care system for all, funding a war in Pakafghanistan, electing Obama Czars, spreading AIDS, and imposing death panels on old folks and Republicans. Now, I see why everyone is so opposed to it. Thanks for that enlightenment, all you informed commentors.