Health Care Debate - Fort Smith, AR

Cuts medicare, puts extra stress on the states to pay for medicaid, higher taxes, more unemployment well the illegals will be happy. Obama and his pack of theives suck.

Pelosi and Obama are causing the dollar to tank with more spending with money we don't have calling this a win for the american people. The real win will be in 2010 when they can pack up and go home.

I thnik it's a wise choice to make. the money that you have in your bank account should not be a criterion for anyone to decide whether you get the chance to be given a hand at a difficult moment in your life.

Doesn't matter how they explain it, they are trying to take over healthcare and put insurance companies out of business. It's not right. Tort reform is what is right. The lawyers are the problem!

The government just needs to keep their noses out of our private sectors. There's nothing that burns me up more than knowing I may be possibly taxed to death to pay for those who WON'T work.

I like my insurance and I want to keep it that way. I also like being able to get to the doctor the same day in most cases if needs be.

It makes me sick that our country is going down the tubes.

abc wrote:

The government just needs to keep their noses out of our private sectors. There's nothing that burns me up more than knowing I may be possibly taxed to death to pay for those who WON'T work.
I like my insurance and I want to keep it that way. I also like being able to get to the doctor the same day in most cases if needs be.
It makes me sick that our country is going down the tubes.

You know what I hate? I hate being a nurse and watching my patients die awaiting a specialist. Not once has it been someone who "wouldn't" work. It was someone who couldn't work or who was working but got screwed by their insurance or had no insurance.
A 27 year old who worked in the oil field. Made a great living, supported his family and had insurance got cancer. Testicular cancer. The treatments made him so ill he couldn't work. FMLA ran out. He isn't disabled so doesn't qualify. Loses his insurance and the hospital where he was treated with round one and two of chemo wants $25, 000 up front to continue treatment. We had him due to his pneumonia from the lung metastasis. He never got chemo and died because a hospital that puts a cross on it is for profit and did not have an obligation to treat him again.
A girl 20 in school full time wants to be a nurse. Family can't pay for insurance and she works at walmart part time and is uninsured. Comes to the clinic yellow head to toe in liver failure for unknown reasons. After running her labs we sent her to the ER and they couldn't get a specialist to see her because she was uninsured. She stayed at our hospital for 3 days while we got her in to see someone but it took 3 days and in those 3 days the hepatitis A that she got from food contaminant damaged her liver to the point that her heart was damaged also. It shouldn't have been that difficult to get a 20 year old help.
A 33 year old mom of 4. One just 2 months old has no insurance. Her husband works full time and she works part time. They pay their bills and take care of their kids. She gets a headache and finds that she has a hole in her sinus cavity that needs surgery. The infection goes away but she can't get in to see a surgeon due to lack of insurance. Fast forward 4 months later she comes to ER unresponsive ends up on life support and dies. She had meningitis caused from the hole in her sinus cavity. Now there are 4 children without a mother because she had no insurance.
25 year old type 1 diabetic lost his insurance at 23 because he was no longer a dependant of his parents. He is in school and working part time. He is unable to afford his insulin for his pump anymore. He can get insurance but his diabetes is a pre existing condition. He comes to ER numerous times with a critical blood sugar. we Fix the immediate problem, even send him with insulin but he is unable to afford to keep it up. He ends up in kidney failure in need of a transplant. He of course doesn't have the money to pay the hospital for transplant but most hospitals are pretty nice about transplant patients. Unfortunately he died on dialasis awaiting transplant. If it wasn't for his inability ti afford insulin, his kidneys wouldn't have suffered so young and he may have been able to live.
These are just 3 of many I have myself witnessed. They may not be important to you but they were to their families. If it was your loved one you would want them to live. As a nurse I see these things first hand. Do I mind taking a bit of a pay cut to keep someone alive? No. My money isn't what is important here. The insurance companies bottom line isn't important here. Innocent lives are at steak. Who is protecting them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

HR3590
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued!
Page114 Line 22 EXEMPTS THE PRESIDENT, SENATE, CONGRESS AND FAMILIES FROM THIS ACT!!
Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

I have at least 25 more reasons straight out of the legislation..
this is NOT reform but socialistic take over of our lives from cradle to death!!

nunya wrote:

<quoted text>
You know what I hate? I hate being a nurse and watching my patients die awaiting a specialist. Not once has it been someone who "wouldn't" work. It was someone who couldn't work or who was working but got screwed by their insurance or had no insurance.
A 27 year old who worked in the oil field. Made a great living, supported his family and had insurance got cancer. Testicular cancer. The treatments made him so ill he couldn't work. FMLA ran out. He isn't disabled so doesn't qualify. Loses his insurance and the hospital where he was treated with round one and two of chemo wants $25, 000 up front to continue treatment. We had him due to his pneumonia from the lung metastasis. He never got chemo and died because a hospital that puts a cross on it is for profit and did not have an obligation to treat him again.
A girl 20 in school full time wants to be a nurse. Family can't pay for insurance and she works at walmart part time and is uninsured. Comes to the clinic yellow head to toe in liver failure for unknown reasons. After running her labs we sent her to the ER and they couldn't get a specialist to see her because she was uninsured. She stayed at our hospital for 3 days while we got her in to see someone but it took 3 days and in those 3 days the hepatitis A that she got from food contaminant damaged her liver to the point that her heart was damaged also. It shouldn't have been that difficult to get a 20 year old help.
A 33 year old mom of 4. One just 2 months old has no insurance. Her husband works full time and she works part time. They pay their bills and take care of their kids. She gets a headache and finds that she has a hole in her sinus cavity that needs surgery. The infection goes away but she can't get in to see a surgeon due to lack of insurance. Fast forward 4 months later she comes to ER unresponsive ends up on life support and dies. She had meningitis caused from the hole in her sinus cavity. Now there are 4 children without a mother because she had no insurance.
25 year old type 1 diabetic lost his insurance at 23 because he was no longer a dependent of his parents....

HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE LEGISLATION?? Reform is needed but not this fraud passing as health care reform,.. you spoke of a Cancer patient,.. this is from the bill about cancer hospitals/treatment...
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS/PATIENTS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
you speak of rationing..
# Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
# Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
# Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'
# Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans--The Govt will ration your health care!
# Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans.(AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
I can give you more,.. such as your salary would be specified by the Health Services commission for one.. and Doctors will be told what treatments they can offer and how much they can own, also it won't matter what specialty you are, you will practice medicine as the Health Services Commission tells you what you are allowed to do.. not to mention all the different tax assessments that are levied on a multitude of medical devices, payroll, and "thou shalts" directed at the citizens and businesses.. this is the part that is directly adverse to the Constitution and Bill of Rights..
Welcome to Socialized Medicine.. this is HR3590..

Jean, did you even read the parts that you are referencing?

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS/PATIENTS - Authorizes paying more for cancer treatment in hospitals where it's found that it costs more for treatment.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - Defines that the amount your family has to pay for insurance coverage as part of any cost-sharing insurance won't exceed $5000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family; in other words, it limits how much insurance companies can charge you for your coverage.

Page 42 of HC Bill - Describes a health care commissioner who helps determine the minimum benefits your insurance must offer in order to join the insurance exchange; in other words, makes sure your insurance isn't crappy, going-to-flake-out-on-you-as-s oon-as-you-need-it insurance. Note that they have no power over insurance plans that aren't in the exchange, and no insurance company is forced to be in the exchange.

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Same as page 42, determines the minimum standards of not crappy insurance

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill - classifies plans under certain categories based on how many benefits they give, for purposes of determining how good each plan is, and in turn, how much you should have to pay for each plan-- again, guaranteeing that you get what you pay for and don't end up with a plan that does nothing.

So, let's look back: everything you cited had nothing to do with what you said it had to do with, and you've completely ignored the emotional stories of multiple people this nurse has seen die before their eyes, instead ranting on about page such-and-such of the bill when you aren't even right about those pages.

You have given no reason to be against health care reform, and ignored the moral imperative the nurse describes.

those were just some of the items..

TO ALL OF OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT READ HR3590 -- READ AND WEEP--
# Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!
# Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
# Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
# Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
# Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
# Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued!
# Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.
# Page 65 Sec 164:Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations:(ACORN).
# Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'
# Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans--The Govt will ration your health care!
# Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans.(AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
# Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services.(Translation: illegal aliens.)
# Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18:The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & AmeriCorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
# Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid.(No choice.)
# Page114 Line 22 EXEMPTS THE PRESIDENT, SENATE, CONGRESS AND FAMILIES FROM THIS ACT!!
# Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.
# Page 126 Lines 22-25:Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families.(Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)
# Page 145 Line 15-17:An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan.(NO choice!)
# Page 149 Lines 16-24:ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll!
# Page 150 Lines 9-13:A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
# Page 167 Lines 18-23:ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
# Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill:Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes.(Americans will pay.)
# Page 195 HC Bill:Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records.
# Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill:Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors.(Low-income and the poor are affected.)
# Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
# Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).
# Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc.(Forcing people into the Govt plan)
# Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!
* Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)
* Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc.(And it's mandatory!)
* Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; & guiding you in death.(Also called 'assisted suicide.')

* Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations.(Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

NEED I SAY MORE.. WELCOME TO SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!

Nick wrote:

Jean, did you even read the parts that you are referencing?
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS/PATIENTS - Authorizes paying more for cancer treatment in hospitals where it's found that it costs more for treatment.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - Defines that the amount your family has to pay for insurance coverage as part of any cost-sharing insurance won't exceed $5000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family; in other words, it limits how much insurance companies can charge you for your coverage.
Page 42 of HC Bill - Describes a health care commissioner who helps determine the minimum benefits your insurance must offer in order to join the insurance exchange; in other words, makes sure your insurance isn't crappy, going-to-flake-out-on-you-as-s oon-as-you-need-it insurance. Note that they have no power over insurance plans that aren't in the exchange, and no insurance company is forced to be in the exchange.
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Same as page 42, determines the minimum standards of not crappy insurance
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill - classifies plans under certain categories based on how many benefits they give, for purposes of determining how good each plan is, and in turn, how much you should have to pay for each plan-- again, guaranteeing that you get what you pay for and don't end up with a plan that does nothing.
So, let's look back: everything you cited had nothing to do with what you said it had to do with, and you've completely ignored the emotional stories of multiple people this nurse has seen die before their eyes, instead ranting on about page such-and-such of the bill when you aren't even right about those pages.
You have given no reason to be against health care reform, and ignored the moral imperative the nurse describes.

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND LEGAL SPEAK.. you can not take this legislative language verbatim.. which is what you are doing..

Let's go through this again:

Page 22 of the HC Bill - says absolutely nothing about audits.
If you're talking about HR 3590, it's a subsection of a part of the bill talking about developing uniform definitions and explanations of health insurance plans. If you're talking about HR 3200, which is what all of your previous pages corresponded to, it's talking about a potential study that would figure out who chooses plans on the exchange, who doesn't, and why, to better the exchange.

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - There is no Section 123 on page 30 of HR 3590, so I assume you're talking about HR 3200.
Under 3200, it describes an advisory committee, whose purpose is, and I quote, "to recommend covered benefits" for various plans to the Congressional committee on health and human services. It has no power to determine plans.

In addition, it notes that they are limited to three year terms, and regarding membership, it shall be composed of members of various parts of the public, health experts, actual doctors, and consumer groups, so that it "shall represent a balance among various sectors of the health care system so that no single sector unduly influences the recommendations of such Committee."

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - I already talked about that before, read my previous post.

Page 42 of HC Bill - I already talked about that before, read my previous post.

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill - I'm just going to start assuming you're talking about HR 3200, because everything corresponds to HR 3200 and doesn't to HR 3590 - talks about preventing discrimination based on non-health related personal characteristics. This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants.
To make this clear, page 142, sec 242 says, with regards to any federal subsidies and tax credits, "For purposes of this division, the term 'affordable credit eligible individual' means, subject to subsection (b), an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States"

page 143, sec 246, repeats this, specifying, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

No money will go to illegals.

Page 58 HC Bill - describes adopting standards whereby you can determine how much people owe for their medical services when they get the medical services, so there's no guessing about how much you owe, and figuring out if you're able to see a specific doctor or not, which "may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card." Note that 1) they do not have access to all of your financial information, they are only allowed to figure out how much your insurance plan covers and how much you'd have to pay for medical services, and 2) there bit about ID cards is only suggested, not recommended, 3) would only describe your insurance plan.

The bit about the ID card is particularly interesting, since Republicans have passed a Real ID national ID card which most Republicans have expressed absolutely no worry about, while all this is doing is *suggesting* a card that lists your insurance plan on it, and you freak out.

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 - allows for electronic funds transfer, not "elective funds transfer". This is otherwise known as being able to use a debit card to pay for your medical bill, and the gov't has nothing to do with it.

Page 65 Sec 164 - describes a temporary insurance plan to help businesses pay for health benefits of retirees or widows of retirees who might be too expensive to cover otherwise. It says nothing about unions, and when it's talking about committees, it's talking about plans that are headed by either employers or a group of people gathering together to get insurance, not community organizations (Acorn).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Already talked about this

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Already talked about this.

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Describes providing translators for health services. Note that this has nothing to do with illegal immigrants; anyone who doesn't speak English natively needs translators, specifically legal immigrants and those who were born in the US (and are citizens) but don't know English well enough to talk about health issues.
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 - Section 205 says the Health Choices commissioner is charged with publicizing the options on the health care exchange. The legislation says the commissioner "may work with other appropriate entities to facilitate the dissemination of information." The bill does not mention ACORN or Americorps. The bill also says that the commissioner must publicize the "Exchange-participating health benefits plan options," which would include private insurance plans.
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Refers to a previous passage, page 78 lines 1-14, which describes people who are eligible for both Medicaid and insurance plans in the exchange. That previous passage describes how people may not simultaneously be enrolled under Medicaid AND an exchange plan. page 102 describes how those who choose not to enroll in an exchange plan are provided with a process to automatically enroll themselves in Medicaid instead. In other words, you can freely choose whatever exchange you want, but if you want into Medicaid, an automatic process will be made to help you get in easily.
Page 114 Line 22 - talks about when the health care commissioner can terminate a state health exchange program that's not up to standards, and says nothing about the President, Congress, or their families.
Page 124 lines 24-25 HC - allows for no judicial or administrative review of payment rates determined for the public option, which is moot, since the public option is removed from the Senate and is unlikely to be in the final bill, besides the fact that this has nothing to do with other insurance companies, who may set whatever price they want for their insurance.
Page 126 Lines 22-25 - there is no line 25 on page 126, and 22-24 has nothing to do with employers or employees.
Page 145 Line 15-17 - requires that the employer provide a method of automatic enrollment on the employer's insurance plan, not the public option. In other words, the employer has to make it easy for employees to enroll in their own insurance plan.
Page 149 Lines 16-24 - employers with payroll 401k and above who don't provide ANY type of insurance have to pay a payroll tax. They do not have to pay into the public option. As mentioned before, it's moot because there's likely not going to be a public option.
Page 150 Lines 9-13 - employers with payroll 251k - 400k who don't provide ANY type of insurance pay a payroll tax of 2-6%. Same stuff as above.
Page 167 Lines 18-23 - Any individual who doesn't have appropriate insurance is charged 2.5% of gross income AFTER taxes OR the average national premium, whichever is less. This is the individual mandate, which progressives only wanted if there was a public option, and which many oppose.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill - Illegals, who can't qualify for any insurance plans, also aren't taxed for not having the insurance plans.
Page 195 HC Bill - employees of the health exchange administration have access to only the information directly relevant to their insurance eligibility and plans. This *restricts* what information they can get at, not give them it.
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill - Fees for physician's services are included in estimates of how expensive your premium is, which affects how much of a subsidy you can get to help you get insurance.
Page 272 SEC. 1145 - Already talked about this in former post

Page 272 SEC. 1145 - Already talked about this in former post

Page 280 Sec 1151 - Hospitals that discharge and then readmit patients to try and defraud Medicare out of more money only get the same amount of money they'd get if the patient wasn't discharged; this closes a loophole by which hospitals take money for doing nothing but some paperwork saying the patient was discharged.

Page 341 Lines 3-9 - Section 1162, which this is under, describes bonuses to Medicare Advantage plans that are determined to have improved quality of care. page 341 lines 3-9 specifies that plans that haven't improved quality of care don't get bonus payments.

Page 354 Sec 1177 -

Page 425 Lines 4-12 - Section 1233, which these lines are under, expands coverage of medicare to include advanced care planning consultation; in other words, those under medicare are covered for talking about living wills and what to do if they die or are somehow incapacitated and the doctors need someone to make a medical decision for you. None of this, by the way, is mandated.

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 - Again, covers you to talk with your doctor about end of life questions, like whether you want all possible treatments performed on you or whatever. Again, none of this is required, it's just provided if you want to talk about it.

Page 469 - Section 1302, which this is under, provides for a pilot program to determine good medical home care models. Page 469 is part of the requirements that Community based medical homes have to meet to get payments under this pilot program. This section says nothing about ACORN or anything else like that.

Did you read these pages, either, or are you just copying lists of page numbers from e-mails again?

Sorry, the posts system was messing up and I seem to have posted multiple times but can't delete the extras.

Also, I forgot to do

page 354 Sec 1177 - extends the authority the Social Security Act bestowed to 2016, which specified that

"In the case of a specialized MA plan for special needs individuals (as defined in subsection (b)(6) of this section), notwithstanding any other provision of this part and in accordance with regulations of the Secretary and for periods before January 1, 2010, the plan may restrict the enrollment of individuals under the plan to individuals who are within one or more classes of special needs individuals. "

In other words, the medicare advantage plans that apply to those with special needs is quote unquote "restricted" to only those who actually have special needs.