Gay Marriage Debate - Ukiah, CA

MY THOUGHTS 1 wrote:

GOD MADE ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE, OR EVE AND EVETTE. MAN AND WOMAN AND HE MAKES IT CLEAR IN HIS HOLY WORD THAT ANYTHING ELSE IS SIN. DON'T ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, TALK TO THE ONE WHO MADE THE RULES.

I am a christian but I believe that God loves all of us. I believe he created gays in order to help control the human population (at least in theory it sounds good). I dont believe the bible is 100% true because it is stories from that person's perspective and can be interpreted differently by someone else. I do not believe that my neighbor believes in the same God as I do or that his neighbor down the street believes what he does. That is why this shouldnt be based on God's word. It is based on CIVIL Rights and if we give murderous, thieves, child molesters, etc civil rights; why not gays?

It affects me in no way. What others want to do with their life is none of my business. making it my business would only make me a nosy controlling idiot.

MY THOUGHTS 1 wrote:

GOD MADE ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE, OR EVE AND EVETTE. MAN AND WOMAN AND HE MAKES IT CLEAR IN HIS HOLY WORD THAT ANYTHING ELSE IS SIN. DON'T ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, TALK TO THE ONE WHO MADE THE RULES.

God? Who is he? What color is his skin? What about the color of his eyes? How tall is he? Does he have long or short side burns? OH? You can't answer because "NO ONE" has ever seen him? The only proof you have is a book written by more people who never saw him? hhmm... I have a book that says there is a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow aand that unicorns can fly. The authors never saw a pot of gold or a unicorn but they wrote about them so they must exist!

MY THOUGHTS 1 wrote:

<quoted text>FORMER UKIAHAN, BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL. GOD IS SPIRIT, AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH. SOUNDS LIKE YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN MUCH OF ANYTHING. I CAN'T SEE THE WIND, BUT I KNOW IT THERE AND I CAN SEE THE RESULTS OF IT. I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU EITHER!

The wind can be physically felt and will move objects around. Tell me when your god is going to do something like that so I can verify he exists. Oh wait..that will NEVER happen will it. He's a story in a book writen by people who never EVER saw or met him in any way. What's referred to as hearsay in a court of law or tall tale telling in laymans terms.
And you are right you haven't seen me...but if I beotch slapped you you would sure feel it and know I was there! Tell your god to beotch slap me and I'll believe he exists. rofl

MY THOUGHTS 1 wrote:

<quoted text>IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS NOT 100% TRUE, THEN THAT IS YOUR RIGHT, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT TO BELIEVE OR WHAT NOT TO BELIEVE. GOD LOVE THE GAY'S, BUT HE DOENS'T LOVE THE SIN OF IT. SO TO BELIEVE OR NOT, I DO AND I BELEIVE BEING GAY IS NOT WHAT GOD INTENDED FOR HIS PEOPLE.

How can you say you cant pick and choose what you want out of the bible. How do you describe the different versions of Christianity, i.e., Lutheran, Protestant, Jehovah? What do you believe the one "true" religion is? Honestly it doesnt matter because gay people should be able to marry, join, etc. what ever you want to call it because we should not base our government laws on our religious beliefs. Isnt that why the pilgrims came here to begin with?

MY THOUGHTS 1 wrote:

<quoted text>IT'S STILL WRONG! I DON'T CARE WHAT "RELIGION" BELIEVES, I BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS ME, NOTHING ELSE.

So you want to force YOUR religion on other people because YOUR take on what the bible says. Like I said before many people can interpret the bible how they want.... we still shouldnt base our laws on one religion... plain and simple... easy peasy...

Well, that's all so very nice SMALL THOUGHTS, but like Yeppers says, this is not a theocracy. No religion is the law of this land. If you value that type of system, please move to Iran, and you should recall that America arose from a history of religious oppression among other things.

It's all relative anyway - if you were taxed first class but treated second class because of someone else's religious beliefs, you'd be screaming.

As for this direct democracy mob rule, ours was once upon a time a representative democracy. Why don't we dispense with all our elected representatives since we're just going to vote directly on everything?

Wannabe Carly Fiorina says we should have direct voting to let the majority legislate whatever it wishes (as long as she's in the majority), but she wants to be our Senator. Such a sweet oxymoron, that moron.

What this country really needs is the requirement to pass American Government class before graduating from junior high school.

Perfect solution in my mind, abolish marriage altogether and that should pretty much take care of that argument! I am in a man/woman relationship. We had planned to get married and were excited about the whole thing. Then our parents started to put in their opinions as to where we should get married. Who should conduct the wedding. What we should eat at our reception and just every little detail. I had just been diagnosed with Chrones disease and so at that time I was ultra sensitive to what I could and could not eat and everything that his parents wanted us to have served was basically everything I couldn't eat.

I know stupid details. And then we thought about it, it was just that. Stupid details. Why did we need a piece of paper to tell the world we were committed to one another? Why do I need the government to record who I say I am committed to? Why do I need a church or government official to stand in front of me and have the two of us make promises that really are not the full scope of what we meant to one another?

So we skipped the whole thing. Boy did that ever upset both families. Oh well to them. They got over it and my Mormon Mom has even called my husband her son-in-law.

So here is the deal. Who people want to commit to, that is their business. Not to mention, when you get married, if you decide to go your own way, you have a messy divorce and the government takes a chuck out of your pocket book to settle the arrangement. Why would I want to pay the government for any part of my relationship?

So really, what is the point of getting married? I have found no real benefit. Abolish it and be done with it.

wondering wrote:

...So really, what is the point of getting married? I have found no real benefit. Abolish it and be done with it.

Well, I don't disagree, except that's not going to happen, and in the meantime, those who are married DO have many benefits that other couples and singles DO NOT have, so we have a class society. But get rid of those materialistic benefits (not very Christian-like, eh?), and I'm all for that.

Just have every citizen equal. Simple, really.

wondering wrote:

...I am in a man/woman relationship.

There's the real difference. You have the choice to get married - still do - as should every other adult consenting couple, but you chose not to get married like you chose which shoes to wear that day. The rest of our lives are a bit more complicated than yours.

Hospitals, hotels, the TSA, you name it, will think you're married to him, or even if you're not, that's OK, but try doing that with a same sex spouse - even when you have the government paper, and you'll see how different the world treats you.

Second class, at best.

We can't have liberty and equality without toleration and diversity. Even the most stout leaders must abandon bias and allow truly effective objectivity to achieve social progress.

Houyhnhnm wrote:

<quoted text>
The rest of our lives are a bit more complicated than yours.

No offense and I am not going to go into extreme details of my life, to say ones life is more complicated than mine is a judgment call that is being weighed without knowing all that I experience and deal with on a daily basis.

I do not presume to know your challenges in life and say I have it better or worse than you; I don't know you. However, respectably, without dragging out personal baggage, let us not compare one another's complications in life. You may be surprised at what you find in another's life.

Not angry, just saying how I see it.
(nothing illegal in my background)

Thank you~

wondering wrote:

<quoted text>
No offense and I am not going to go into extreme details of my life, to say ones life is more complicated than mine is a judgment call that is being weighed without knowing all that I experience and deal with on a daily basis.
I do not presume to know your challenges in life and say I have it better or worse than you; I don't know you. However, respectably, without dragging out personal baggage, let us not compare one another's complications in life. You may be surprised at what you find in another's life.
Not angry, just saying how I see it.
(nothing illegal in my background)
Thank you~

When I first read this, I thought, "no offense" and "WTF" to myself -- then decided I really, really need to call you on it.

No, you're flat out wrong.

To any life, add any challenge, any baggage, any complication, any whatever, and then make that person second class. Wow, you apparently have no idea how that complicates things. This is the curse of the privileged.

To be a "first class" citizen of this country and say that's a judgment call, well, you've got a major perspective deficit. I'm terribly sorry you've got it so bad. Think about that the next time you and your Mormon relatives use your votes to harm others who did nothing to you but paid for your tax benefits. Cowards.

Houyhnhnm wrote:

<quoted text>
When I first read this, I thought, "no offense" and "WTF" to myself -- then decided I really, really need to call you on it.
No, you're flat out wrong.
To any life, add any challenge, any baggage, any complication, any whatever, and then make that person second class. Wow, you apparently have no idea how that complicates things. This is the curse of the privileged.
To be a "first class" citizen of this country and say that's a judgment call, well, you've got a major perspective deficit. I'm terribly sorry you've got it so bad. Think about that the next time you and your Mormon relatives use your votes to harm others who did nothing to you but paid for your tax benefits. Cowards.

Wow, did you ever take a leap. I know things about the Mormon church. I was baptized when I was about 11 years old. I didn't want to be baptized but if you knew what my mom did to me that day and what was threatened for later, it was easier to get baptized. During the years that I lived with her, I didn't like attending church. When I moved out, I stopped going to church. I am polite to the Mormons but I do not go to church or their functions.

I knew about their participation because of the news and some of what my mother had told me because she still attends.

What I find even more funny is that you are saying that I voted in this matter. I have an opinion on this matter however, I do not believe in marriage so why would I vote on a marriage law? Wow, FAIL! I did not go about trying to talk people into voting one way or another. I have been simply pointing out the motive of why the Mormon church got involved.

Personal opinion, there is this thing called separation of church and state, that was breached.

I must be confusing you.

Here is a kicker, I don't go to any churches. My idea of a church is going to the woods and sitting quietly listening to nature. Or try this one, go to the ocean and meditate.

You have no clue what kinds of hell I have been through while being in the Mormon church. The way I was subjected to one set of rules while my ex (was husband at the time) could do things 10-20 times worse than myself and I always seemed to have the greater consequences. You have no clue about my life after I had to get my divorce. Struggles as a single mom.

I will say no more because I should not have to explain myself.

You seem to have this picture in your mind that I live in a house that my family and I own. We go on vacations often. My biggest crisis is what clothing to wear and how to dress my kids that day. And in the evening, what I will feed my family. Oh and you can't forget, I must be balancing the schedules of my children and all their extra activities, all the while entertaining guests from church.

Nothing like that!

So sure you called me to the mat, there is so much more that is so much more "challenging" in which you would not understand. I am not asking you to understand. But you should come off your high horse, that saddle is not cinched tight enough and your about to fall off.

You don't know me. You don't know my life. You don't know my challenges and you certainly do not have a clue as to what my past is all about and where I am coming from.

wondering wrote:

<quoted text>...What I find even more funny is that you are saying that I voted in this matter. I have an opinion on this matter however, I do not believe in marriage so why would I vote on a marriage law? Wow, FAIL! I did not go about trying to talk people into voting one way or another....

It is all about you, isn't it?

You have made choices, and you still have choices open to you. Many others are not allowed to have the opportunities you have, even as horrible as your life apparently is.

You even have the choice to vote, even if it were for someone else's good. Again, not about you, so it doesn't matter. Exercising your right to vote so that someone else could have the choices you have? How self-absorbed you are. How many other "good" people couldn't be bothered?

Prop H8, though about eliminating existing law for same sex marriages, was also about the tyranny of the majority - mob rule. But I know, that didn't rate for you.

I agree. Your life must be really pathetic that you care so little for anyone else. I think I know what your children are learning from you.

The fail is yours, dear.