Gay Marriage Debate - Independence, KS

Discuss the national Gay Marriage debate in Independence, KS.

Do you support gay marriage?

Independence opposes
Oppose
 
135
Support
 
116

Vote now in Independence:

Since: Dec 08

San Francisco, CA

#370 Mar 24, 2011
Wally, you're probably a nice guy, as you are fairly alone in your stance of opposing marriage equality, without inserting inflammatory words like 'pervert'/'abnormal'/'deviant' /'disgusting' and the rest of the hate adjectives many who oppose just seem to love to splash out there ... so thank you, for couching your opposition in a manner in which one can respond, without defense mechanisms in full gear.

I'd like to address your comments below, one by one:
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe you missed my point. My point is they do have a CHOICE. Everyone is affected by thier chemical makeup.
Yes, gays and lesbians have a choice. Our choice is to be honest with you and others about our sexual orientation, or to lie to you, others and our families about it, and hide it.

More and more gays and lesbians are choosing honesty.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
ALL have urges and desires.
Yes - we do. Being gay, is no different than being straight, or being bisexual. We are - what we are.

Lying about our sexuality, OR
Hiding our sexuality, OR
Repressing our sexuality, OR
Ignoring our sexuality,
... will NOT CHANGE who we are! We will still be gay.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
Child molesters, Arsonists, Addicts, those who cheat on their spouse, those that over eat....all these are affected daily by their chemical make up and all have one thing in common.
Child molesters commit a crime.
Child molesters attack a victim.
Child molesters cause reprehensible harm to a child.
Arsonists commit a crime.
Arsonists destroy personal property.
Arsonists can easily endanger or kill people in the process.
Addicts commit a crime.
Addicts destroy themselves.
Addicts can easily endanger or kill other people in the process.
Those who cheat on a spouse commit adultery
Those who cheat on a spouse cause reprehensible harm to their relationship
Those who overeat endanger themselves.
Those who overeat can destroy their own lives.

Gays and Lesbians do not commit any crimes.
Gays and Lesbians do not create a victim.
Gays and Lesbians do not endanger themselves or anyone else.

Your comparisons are simply not analogous!
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
They have a CHOICE to deny self or endulge self.
Why should ANYONE deny their sexual orientation?
For what purpose?
For what benefit?
For what greater good?
For who's benefit?
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
All of these CHOICE's have consequences. Some are outright illegal, some have long lasting social and economical consequences.
But none of your 'choices' listed above are analogous to being gay or lesbian, or marrying the one consenting adult of your choice.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexual acts used to be illegal.
Galileo was arrested for declaring the Earth revolved around the sun.

Many things "used" to be illegal.

Women couldn't vote.
Slaves couldn't marry.
Indian's couldn't own land.
Blacks couldn't marry whites.
Blacks couldn't attend any school, then couldn't attend a white school.
Blacks couldn't ride in the front of a bus.
Blacks couldn't drink out of a white water fountain.
Farmers couldn't plow their fields to the borders.
Women couldn't wear Gold or Pearls.

So what if being gay was illegal in the past? We KNOW BETTER NOW!

Since: Dec 08

San Francisco, CA

#371 Mar 24, 2011
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a child molester is still illegal, being an addict is not illegal but the behavior that is involved with it is in some cases.
So what - do you think civil marriage between gays and lesbians will lead to the legalization of child molestation?

It hasn't in any of the other countries, or states that have legalized Marriage Equality.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is this. Homosexuals have a choice.
Yes - we have a choice, to be honest about our sexuality, or to lie about it, hide it and deny it, but why on God's good Earth would we ever want to LIE about who we are? Or HIDE who we are?

Just to please people like you who have trouble with the 'thought' of who we are?

Should blacks die their skin color too, if you don't like dark skinned people?
Should scientists burn their degrees, if you don't like smart people?
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
Decriminalizing the behavior/CHOICE was not enough.
First of all - you are assuming 'being gay' is a choice, and you are DEAD WRONG. It's NOT a choice. The only choice is whether or not we are HONEST with those that we love, and ourselves.

Maybe it was a 'choice' for you, if you happened to be born bisexual, and you chose to follow the heterosexual path, than good for you. I wasn't born bisexual. I was born gay.

And Of course decriminalization wasn't enough - we are human beings, who pay taxes, who have the right to live our lives the way the good Lord created us. And that includes equal access to Civil Marriage.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
Now they want to feel legitimized by having the priveledge of being lawfully married.
Feel legitimized? Is that what you felt when you chose to marry the person that you loved? Legitimized?

Or did you feel elated - that you were able, by law, to make a life long commitment to the one consenting adult of your choice, and formalize that commitment with the state you live in, and receive equal treatment from under the law, as other couples receive?
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
As Kat says above, it is absolutely none of my business what they do in private.
That is true.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
But it is my business when they start changing the law to suite thier lifestyle choices.
No - it's not your business when WE start changing the law to suite our lifestyle because:

1. we are tax payers too, and
2. our constitution guarantees us EQUALITY under the Law.
3. our Bill of Rights promises us Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, and when you ban our marriages, you are screwing with our Liberty.
4. other minority groups have demanded and won changes in the law to suite their 'lifestyle'.

Blacks were afforded the rights to marriage, to vote, to own property, etc.

It's our turn. Our marriage rights are on the line today, and we are citizens, no state, or person, or group, has any rational, honest, sincere, or valid reason to oppose and ban our marriages.

Don't you see that banning marriage for gay couples is nothing more than legalizing bigotry, discrimination and hate?

Since: Dec 08

San Francisco, CA

#372 Mar 24, 2011
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not want those who CHOOSE to be molesters or Arsonists or Bigamist, or any other anti social lifestyle choice to be legitimized by amending our laws to justify their choices.
Fine, neither do we - and history has proven all over the world that Marriage Equality has NEVER lead to any of your other fears.

NEVER!

All you have to do is look to the other countries and states who have legalized marriage equality, to see it's never lead to anything else, EVER!
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
Backwards as it may sound to the new age of live and let live, thats how I feel.
Well, it doesn't sound 'backwards' to me, it sounds a bit uninformed, and it sounds your opinion is based out of an irrational fear of things you simply do not have to worry about.
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>
What was WRONG a century ago is still WRONG today...at least for me.
That's not true, at all -- and you know it.

Unless, of course, you believe Black Americans should STILL be slaves, and Women should still NOT have the right to vote. And American Indians should still be killed just for existing!

“Better listen the first time”

Since: Aug 09

jest an ol' hillbilly

#373 Mar 24, 2011
TolkMax wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine, neither do we - and history has proven all over the world that Marriage Equality has NEVER lead to any of your other fears.
NEVER!
All you have to do is look to the other countries and states who have legalized marriage equality, to see it's never lead to anything else, EVER!
<quoted text>
Well, it doesn't sound 'backwards' to me, it sounds a bit uninformed, and it sounds your opinion is based out of an irrational fear of things you simply do not have to worry about.
<quoted text>
That's not true, at all -- and you know it.
Unless, of course, you believe Black Americans should STILL be slaves, and Women should still NOT have the right to vote. And American Indians should still be killed just for existing!
Gimme some time to think about that women not voting part.....You jist might have something there...

Since: Dec 08

San Francisco, CA

#374 Mar 24, 2011
Hi lee ejicated Redneck wrote:
<quoted text>Gimme some time to think about that women not voting part.....You jist might have something there...
LOLOLOL
wow

Independence, KS

#375 Mar 24, 2011
anyone wrote:
<quoted text>i truley agree with you. I think this is a sick and digusting thing and it shoud be treated as a crime.
Wow you people who think that just because it's not what you do, and not the normal, that it's wrong your ignorant.
Ewww

Independence, KS

#376 Mar 25, 2011
I think it is so grosssss
Ewww

Independence, KS

#377 Mar 25, 2011
it is sick
bolivar shagnasty

Independence, KS

#378 Mar 26, 2011
i was recently told of the two women who had been lifelong companions, when one of them died, the other had to pay a huge estate tax(something to that effect) that she would not have had to pay if they had been recognized as a married couple. why should they be penalized? forget the sexuality part of it, these are people who do not want to be penalized with insurance,and other fees that we take for granted by being married. they should be treated the same.

Since: Dec 08

San Francisco, CA

#379 Mar 26, 2011
wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow you people who think that just because it's not what you do, and not the normal, that it's wrong your ignorant.
Bigotry often makes some people to do and say some really 'mean' things.
Ewww wrote:
I think it is so grosssss
Like Ewww...
Ewww wrote:
it is sick
And we think YOU are so grosssss and sick, too!
bolivar shagnasty wrote:
i was recently told of the two women who had been lifelong companions, when one of them died, the other had to pay a huge estate tax(something to that effect) that she would not have had to pay if they had been recognized as a married couple. why should they be penalized? forget the sexuality part of it, these are people who do not want to be penalized with insurance,and other fees that we take for granted by being married. they should be treated the same.
Well said -- Thank you!!!
wow

Independence, KS

#380 Apr 1, 2011
Its not hurting you so just mind your own business and dont worry about other people
laura

Gainesville, FL

#381 Sep 16, 2011
sure do.. free love of the heart
nooooo

Independence, KS

#382 Sep 23, 2011
please no rump rangeing at walmarts
neegerwollah

Independence, KS

#383 Sep 27, 2011
its gross
Jesus Christ

Independence, KS

#385 Jan 17, 2012
Dude, let them marry yo.
Steve

Raleigh, NC

#386 Sep 21, 2012
everyone should have equal rights
wally515

Parsons, KS

#387 Sep 21, 2012
Steve wrote:
everyone should have equal rights
everyone DOES have equal rights. its the law that they want to change, not their right. stick to the FACTS. There is no law against being queer. There is a law that says a marriage instituted, sanctioned and authorized by a government agency (the State) is between a man and a woman. they want to change the law to fit their need. In that case I say we change the law to say everyone has to be straight. that way all our rights and the law are EQUAL.
Jessica

Omaha, NE

#388 Oct 1, 2012
We all have the right to love!!

“America -God's Favorite Cuntry”

Since: Aug 12

Real America, USA

#389 Oct 2, 2012
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>everyone DOES have equal rights. its the law that they want to change, not their right. stick to the FACTS. There is no law against being queer. There is a law that says a marriage instituted, sanctioned and authorized by a government agency (the State) is between a man and a woman. they want to change the law to fit their need. In that case I say we change the law to say everyone has to be straight. that way all our rights and the law are EQUAL.
I agree! And, if anyone shows any signs of being queer, we should put em in jail for breaking the law! Better yet, let's take a lesson from history, and burn the queers. While we are at it we should gather all the witches, atheists, jews, muslims, unwed non-virgin girls, and black folks and put them in one big pile with the queers and light the pile on fire. Now, I know some "ethical" people might be upset that black people would be included, but in order to keep with the original Constitution and views of our forefathers who did not have the foresight to see an end to slavery, we have to ignore any changes to our laws that granted them fair and ethical treatment. So, either add them to the pile or put them to work on your farm; the choice is yours. And by yours, I mean white, christian men. Back to the burning event: With todays technology, we could film this and put it on pay-per-view for those unfortunate folks who can't make it to the burning in person. Then, the money that gets generated form this event should be used to balance the national deficit! It's a win-win scenario for folks like us! Think of it as another Inquisition, but for the modern christian man.
no big O

Bolingbrook, IL

#390 Oct 2, 2012
wally515 wrote:
<quoted text>everyone DOES have equal rights. its the law that they want to change, not their right. stick to the FACTS. There is no law against being queer. There is a law that says a marriage instituted, sanctioned and authorized by a government agency (the State) is between a man and a woman. they want to change the law to fit their need. In that case I say we change the law to say everyone has to be straight. that way all our rights and the law are EQUAL.
You do know about the 14th amendment....
Basically it says that a government (state or federal) can not have two sets of laws... one for one group of people one for another. In other words the state/fed government can not say that whites can marry blacks can marry, but not each other. Or in this case osc people can marry and enjoy the legal rights and ramifications of such union, yet ssc can not. The ssc are as much citizens as the osc are. So by denying the the opportunity to get all the rights, both monitary and legal, that comes with a marriage license (contract) you are denying them their 14th amendment gaurentees.

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