Gay Marriage Debate - Chicago, IL

Are you kidding?! Haven't we been through this whole charade of denying rights to certain populations (i.e. slaves, women)?! I thought we'd evolved.

Civilizations rise, evolve then die.

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It causes too much division between and straight and gay people.

Bera Chwatt wrote:

It causes too much division between and straight and gay people.

So what you are saying is that in order to "get along", homosexuals should accept not having the same civil rights as heterosexuals... really.
Same type of thinking whites used against blacks during Kings marches.

Scapegoating and backlash are well documented political and historical forces. Same sex marriage would harm gay people most of all.

Brian_G wrote:

Scapegoating and backlash are well documented political and historical forces. Same sex marriage would harm gay people most of all.

how.

"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group." Coretta Scott King

Laws that deny equal treatment perpetuate the prejudice and dehumanization that some use to justify causing further harm. It is lack of equal treatment rather than the recognition of equality that leads to further needless harm.

"Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals."

I oppose dehumanizing anyone; calling people homophobes is a form of dehumanization.

If you care about homosexuals; keep marriage male and female like it was for mom and dad.

Brian_G wrote:

I oppose dehumanizing anyone; calling people homophobes is a form of dehumanization.
If you care about homosexuals; keep marriage male and female like it was for mom and dad.

I oppose dehumanizing anyone; calling people homophobes is a form of dehumanization

So calling a spade a spade is dehumanizing?

"Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and in some cases transgender and intersex people. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear.[1][2][3] Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination[1][2] and violence on the basis of a perceived non-heterosexual orientation. In a 1998 address, author, activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated that "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."[4]" (Wiki)

Laws that deny equal treatment cause direct harm in many ways. They also inevitably perpetuate the prejudice and dehumanization that some use to justify causing further harm, including physical violence. It is lack of equal treatment rather than the recognition of legal equality that leads to further needless harm.

come on now wrote:

<quoted text>
I oppose dehumanizing anyone; calling people homophobes is a form of dehumanization
So calling a spade a spade is dehumanizing?

Because prejudice, legal discrimination, and other expressions of homophobia are human traits and actions, being called a homophobe is not dehumanizing. It merely labels a human fault, but only humans can be homophobes. For those who value the Golden Rule, it could be offensive, but not dehumanizing.

Denial of equal treatment under the law however, indicates those being denied are not equal in worth or in humanity. They are not fully "persons" worthy of equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution. That is stigmatizing and dehumanizing.

Not Yet Equal wrote:

"Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and in some cases transgender and intersex people. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear.[1][2][3] Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination[1][2] and violence on the basis of a perceived non-heterosexual orientation.

Protecting marriage has nothing to do with attitudes and feelings toward homosexuals; this is a political issue. By the definition above, protecting marriage isn't homophobia.

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Not Yet Equal wrote:

In a 1998 address, author, activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated that "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."[4]" (Wiki)

Coretta Scott King is a celebrity only because she is the widow of Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. Reverend King always preached marriage as male/female.

Not Yet Equal wrote:

Laws that deny equal treatment cause direct harm in many ways. They also inevitably perpetuate the prejudice and dehumanization that some use to justify causing further harm, including physical violence. It is lack of equal treatment rather than the recognition of legal equality that leads to further needless harm.

Protecting the male/female definition of marriage and recognizing the significance of male and female gender roles only "inevitably perpetuate the prejudice and dehumanization that some use to justify causing further harm, including physical violence" in the minds of sick, twisted evil people.

Prejudice is demonstrated by denial of equal treatment under the law. As many posts on this site demonstrate, some are motivated by hate, while others may be motivated by simple lack of careful, unbiased consideration.

"Prejudice, we are beginning to understand, rises not from malice or hostile animus alone. It may result as well from insensitivity caused by simple want of careful, rational reflection or from some instinctive mechanism to guard against people who appear to be different in some respects from ourselves."

Conclusion: DOMA, as it relates to Golinski's case, "violates her right to equal protection of the law under the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution"

Julian Bond testified: "When I'm asked if gay rights are civil rights, my answer is always:'Of course they are.' Civil rights are positive legal prerogatives, the right to equal treatment before the law.... There's no one in the United States who does not, or should not, share in enjoying these rights."

"Black people, of all people, should not oppose equality. And that is what gay marriage represents.... No people of good will should oppose marriage equality. And they should not think that civil unions are a substitute. At best, civil unions are separate but equal. And we all know separate is never equal."

While "protecting marriage" has emotional appeal, no one has been able to demonatrate how treating everyone equally under the law would harm marriage.

The Court: "I'm asking you to tell me how it would harm opposite sex marriages."

Mr. Cooper: "Your Honor, my answer is: I don't know. I don't know." p. 24, Motion for Summary Judgement

Fear remains the primary tool of those opposed to equal treatment as required by the constitution.

DOMA and Proposition 8 hasn't been reviewed by the US Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit is an activist court, it's ruling on DOMA won't stand. Judge Walker's ruling on Proposition 8 was flawed by denying Cooper the right to present evidence and testimony on how same sex marriage harms society including unmarried people.

Gay rights are human rights, everybody should be treated with simple human decency. Gay rights don't include the 'right' to redefine marriage for everybody.

Not Yet Equal wrote:

"Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and in some cases transgender and intersex people. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear.[1][2][3] Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination[1][2] and violence on the basis of a perceived non-heterosexual orientation. In a 1998 address, author, activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated that "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."[4]" (Wiki)

I'm claiming Not Yet Equal promotes antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, irrational fear, hostile behavior and violence by ignoring true evil and using homophbia to defame political opponents.