Abortion Debate - Lenoir, NC

Like I said man, just let your ego go. You'll be a happier person for it.

wrong

Sorry but like CDC said you tried and you failed just move on to another cause to champion for the moral right. Im sure they're some other group of people out there that is doing something wrong for you to attack. Somewhere someone is expressing their rights as a human that you must stop.

Have you noticed that folks who approve of abortion are all alive? I wonder what the child would say?

It's a woman's right to choose. However, I think there should be a set limit as to how many someone can have.

B wrote:

It's a woman's right to choose. However, I think there should be a set limit as to how many someone can have.

Both male and female are involved in conception. "..a woman's right" is a cop out for men that want to seem politically correct, but are in fact weak. Yes, the woman must carry the child, and certainly have a voice, but so must the man. Allowing men to abdicate their role may, in fact, increase the culture of abortion as accepted practice. "Terminating pregnancy" is a polite way of saying "murder for convenience".

B wrote:

It's a woman's right to choose. However, I think there should be a set limit as to how many someone can have.

I have to say that I agree and disagree with you on this. First off, If a family wants to have a bunch of kids, and they are finanically stable to take care of them, then let them have 5 or 6, but just don't be like that show "19 and counting" because a lot of their kids get ignored. Secondly, women that have a bunch of kids, and can't take care of them, or have already had 1 or 2 taken by DSS because they are a piece of shit, then it should be a law that they have to have their tubes tied whether they like it or not. As far as abortion goes....I don't agree with it, but I have to say if the DR told me that my wife was going to die having a kid, I would probably say abort it. The reason being because I can't find another wife like the one I have, and we can have more kids. I know this is probably selfish, and I am probably going to get ragged on here, but that's how I feel about the whole abortion thing.

CDCeltown wrote:

To answer your question, Lesser Evil, my wife... had to get an abortion because the pregnancy was killing her. We haven't regretted it one day since either. It was a very sad time for us, as we were very excited about having a baby, but as soon as the doctor told us what was going on, the decision to terminate the pregnancy was a quick one. The decision was... either the baby can die, AND my wife can die... or JUST the baby can die. Anyone would have made the same decision.
Seriously, you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Be quiet.
PS. I know you don't HAVE to be quiet, this is America, and you can say what you want. I'm telling you for your own good. Swallow your pride. You've lost, and you are wrong. Just accept it, you'll feel better about it in time.

Was it a tubal pregnancy?

Yes.

CDCeltown wrote:

Yes.

Very sorry to hear that you had to go through that, but to be honest, a tubal pregnancy would not qualify as an abortion in the truest sense, because the child has zero chance of survival. That is not the same as a person who chooses to murder their unborn child for reasons of convenience.

These people who keep parroting this worn-out "its a woman's right to choose", simply aren't thinking. Why don't they ever finish the sentence? A woman's right to choose WHAT? To murder their child. To decide if a baby lives or dies. No woman has the right to choose that for another person. Would these same people say that a woman has the "right to choose" whether her 2 week old baby that has been born, continues to live or die? No, and that just shows the hypocrisy, because there is no difference other than in one case the child is born, and in the other case, it isn't.

I too believe in a woman's right to choose, and I will finish the sentence. If a woman is not ready to be a mother, then I support her right to choose NOT TO get pregnant, and and to abstain from activity that causes pregnancy. But to choose whether her baby, another human being altogether, lives or dies...Sorry, but that is immoral.

Again, very sorry for what you and your wife had to endure, but that would not qualify as an abortion. That was a necessary medical procedure. No way the baby could develop.

It was in fact an abortion. The embryo was still growing and she was given a methotrexate abortion to dissolve the pregnancy.

They aren't murdering a child though. They're stopping the growth and cellular replication of an embryo.

There is no viability a fetus before the third trimester, as it hasn't been born yet and isn't able to survive in the world outside the womb.

The Journal of the American Medical Association or JAMA... has concluded that it is very unlikely that a fetus can feel any kind of pain, or have any cognitive reasoning of feeling capabilities.

Pain perception requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus. Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical processing.

Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks.

You guys do NOT.... know... WHAT... you're talking about. I on the other hand... DO.

Anti abortionists are nothing more than agenda having religious zealots, and should not be taken seriously.

lol CDC you know good and well those zealots will reject that reality and replace it with their own. Science and medicine are just witchcraft and therefor tools of the devil.

We should all be living in simple log cabins and women should have births at home even if it kills them, thats not murder if you let a women die when you could have prevented it.

I wonder when a women miscarries if that is murder commited by nature and the womens body, she must burn in hell. When a christian hears about abortion all they can picture is women going out an screwing all day long, having ten abortions a year, some doctor with horns and a pitchfork wielding a hover vaccum... oh and dont forget the end gets closer and closer with every abortion.

Yeah, I think the Christian nuts picture some mad scientist sawing some woman's belly open with a hack saw, pulling out a fully formed crying baby, and shooting in the head with a 9mm.

Life begins at the moment of conception. Ask any scientist or medical professional. Whether or not it is viable outside the womb or not is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant whether or not it feels pain. It is still a life. Ending it...well...it ain't OK, all right? There, I didn't use any hateful or "m" word language. Just stating the facts.

Again, I notice that all pro-abortionist are all alive. I wonder what the "child" would say? We end life because of the inconvenience of that life. It is selfish, at best, and, at worst, the "m" word must follow.

Well, I'm sorry the polite approach didn't work. I am not even going to bother with the emotionally charged comments by "Deist", since there was no real substance to them. I am simply going to respond to your assertion that they unborn baby does not feel pain, and then your attempt to intimidate by telling us that only YOU know what you're talking about. Actually, it is you who is in error on this point, as there is more than ample evidence, and numerous statements from qualified professionals with state otherwise.

I guess the "fetuses don't feel pain" thing is a simple attempt to ease the conscience. But it doesn't change the fact that they DO feel pain. Many more qualified medical professionals disagree with this.

“The neural pathways are present for pain to be experienced quite early by unborn babies”...Steven Calvin, M.D., perinatologist, chair of the Program in Human Rights Medicine, University of Minnesota, where he teaches obstetrics.

“At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG).”...
— Dr. Paul Ranalli, neurologist, University of Toronto

• An unborn baby at 20 weeks gestation “is fully capable of experiencing pain.… Without question,[abortion] is a dreadfully painful experience for any infant subjected to such a surgical procedure.”
— Robert J. White, M.D., PhD., professor of neurosurgery, Case Western University

Dr. Ranalli when on to further state that infants feel pain even MORE than adults for the following reason..."This is a “uniquely vulnerable time, since the pain system is fully established, yet the higher level pain-modifying system has barely begun to develop”

And this admission from a so-called "pro-choice" physician...

“Having administered anesthesia for fetal surgery, I know that on occasion we need to administer anesthesia directly to the fetus, because even at these early gestational ages the fetus moves away from the pain of the stimulation,” stated David Birnbach, M.D., president of the Society for Obstetric Anesthesia and Perinatology.

Consider the following facts:

The skeleton is complete and reflexes are present at 42 days.

Electrical brain wave patterns can be recorded at 43 days. This is usually ample evidence that “thinking” is taking place in the brain.

The fetus has the appearance of a miniature baby, with complete fingers, toes and ears at 49 days.

All organs are functioning—stomach, liver, kidney, brain—and all systems are intact at 56 days.

By 20 weeks, the unborn child has hair and working vocal cords, sucks her thumb, grasps with her hands and kicks. She measures 12 inches.

Furthermore, the state of Minnesota recognizes fetal pain as a part of their 2003 "WOMEN'S RIGHT TO KNOW" law, as well as their 2005 "UNBORN CHILD PAIN PREVENTION ACT", which requiers abortionists to inform women of the availability of pain-reducing medication for the unborn baby.

I simply wouldn't want "Deist" to think I am a religious zealot who is afraid of the "facts of science". Unfortunately, the facts don't agree with your assertion.

Babies are also known to react to noises from outside the womb, as well. I guess you are going to tell me they can't hear either?

Please stop trying to bully people with your "I know what I'm talking about, while nobody else does" stuff. It doesn't work. This has nothing to do with being a religious zealot, as there are even professed atheists who are against abortion for the reasons I listed above. The facts are on our side, and we are simply opposing the suffering and death of innocent babies, all because adults cannot act responsibly.

CDCeltown wrote:

Yeah, I think the Christian nuts picture some mad scientist sawing some woman's belly open with a hack saw, pulling out a fully formed crying baby, and shooting in the head with a 9mm.

Actually, I am quite familiar with the various abortion procedures, although your description here is not too far off from what happens in an actual partial-birth abortion....where a fully formed baby is delivered all except for the head (a technicality to keep it legal), and then scissors are inserted into the base of the skull, and the brains are removed by suction. I guess that one doesn't cause pain, either?

And one more thing, CDC. I think you distorted the fact somewhat in your quoting the "Journal For American Medicine" study of 2005, which tried to sell us on the idea that the unborn baby does not feel pain. You threw this out there as if it were fact, but you neglected to mention that this study has been called into serious question, due to the fact that some of the authors of the "study" were NARAL activists and abortionists.

Futhermore, even JAMA editor-in-chief Catherine D. DeAngelis acknowledged that these facts could certianly cause a conflict of interest, and call into question the journal's credibility, by giving an appearnace of bias.

Why didn't you mention that?

Here is the link for anyone who is interested in further study on this "fact", thrown out to us by CDC...

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/...

Yes MtnMan, please invoke the wisdom of your slanted, and biased medical doctors, and completely DISREGARD the findings of the American Medical Association who tell you in no uncertain terms that you are wrong.

Again.... anti abortionists get facts... they look for way to spin it to suit their needs. They don't really even deserve the privilege of debate.

That site you posted is BUNK. Click ABOUT on the menu.

"2. LifeSiteNews.com emphasizes the social worth of traditional Judeo-Christian principles but is also respectful of all authentic religions and cultures that esteem life, family and universal norms of morality."

It's a Christian site. Mine is a scientific site. You lose.

It's been fun guys, I gotta take the wife out for dinner. I'll hit you guys up tomorrow.