Abortion Debate - Kenosha, WI

I still contend that if pregnancy is prevented then abortion is not an issue. Yes, the world is over populated and it seems that today we are seeing an enormous amount of self serving behavior. Children are not to be source of support for parents. Look at the parents who won't work but want the government to support them. And those parents who want the baby daddy or mommy to support them. I'm not sure what the answer is but I'm beginning to believe we need to pass a test to become a parent. Job? yes, Education? yes. Home? yes. Savings account? yes. Okay, maybe. One child and no way to support yourself maybe it's time to consider forced birth control. I've never felt it was the answer but I'm now seeing a whole side of people that won't work because they feel they are owed a living. It's not like 20 years ago when you grew a garden and canned food to get you through the winter. Now they want food stamps, paid heat and a low income house. If you can't afford children then don't have them.

Very true south lady, although I would say that the option to grow food or live off the land is a fantasy for most people. I don't know wht the answer is and yes abortion could be solved if the womem had to identify the man and b dna tested an have that man pay. But most would say that is invasion of privacy etc. Both men and women would think 10 x before engaing in the act but there is always modern medicine now where there are"choices". I don't know if I am pro abortion or against abortion I can only know what I feel if I was in a certain position. I am a man so it would seem.that now as the law is a women is the one that makes the choice.

In order to receive benefits for children then the father should have to be revealed. And if they can't provide the father's name then the DNA should go into the system. It's not right that responsible people have one child because that's all they can afford but someone who doesn't work and has a medical card and benefits can have a half dozen. And the same goes for an immigrant legal or otherwise who have children but can't afford them. Honestly, I am less concerned about those pregnancy's that end in legal abortion than I am about the ones that will end in illegal ones if it is outlawed. Since it's only women who will be affected, a lot of people just don't care about it. I just think that the bottom line is that if you can prevent pregnancy you don't have to worry about abortion.

Prior to conception, your future component parts were not able to develop into the person you are. At the moment of conception, all the ingredients are present and your life's journey begins. From this moment, any influence on you alters your life experience. Go back to your moment of conception, and if you were aborted, you are not reading this post. How sad that someone thought they could predict your future and think that you would be better off not having experienced life beyond those first few weeks of existence. Life- the most enchanting, phenomenal experience on earth.

Most of us are generally here because some form of birth control didn't work. But all you are saying is that you want every child conceived to be born. You will support my right to be born but chances are you are against my rights to marry who I want, you don't care if I grow up in poverty, neglected and unable to get healthcare? Because if you want every child born then you surely must be for food stamps, medicaid and any other social program that child might need? Oh yes, and if they happen to be gay then they can surely have the right to marry someone of the same sex. Or are you one of those who only want the child to be born and then deny them food, shelter, medical care and the right to happiness? Either support them 100 % or admit that you only want deal with one single issue that doesn't affect you.

I wonder if abortion was illegal and no public aid of any kind was given if all this BS would be solved over nite. We are humans we are supposedly the most intelligent animal and we can not controll ourselves to not have sex if we do not want a child. Sex>>>>>> makes baby>>>>>> > baby needs support . The most "unevolved" animal understands these rules.

docreflex wrote:

I wonder if abortion was illegal and no public aid of any kind was given if all this BS would be solved over nite. We are humans we are supposedly the most intelligent animal and we can not controll ourselves to not have sex if we do not want a child. Sex>>>>>> makes baby>>>>>> > baby needs support . The most "unevolved" animal understands these rules.

Before abortion was legal the rich still got their abortions. It was the poor women who died in back alley abortions. And abortions have been around as long as there have been pregnancy. Sex isn't only for procreation. It's a vital part of marriage. And now that marriage is fading as an institution sex is a part of relationships whether we like it or not. Sex and premarital and extra marital sex have always been around.

We are unevolved animals. Then if we have to resort to abortion as a solution to having sex. I still don't see the connection between sex an abortion. There are many types of sex a man an women can do an not have a pregnancy if we are supposedly intellegent. Once you have this "option" then that may be a reason why the pregnancy occurs, because you now have an option to choose abortion, kind of like an ace up your sleeve. At any rate the man or women who invents an on -off switch for the male sperm passage will make a million. Why do we have women take so many pillss for birth controll?? Like I said eliminate all aid for abortfion and aid for unplanned births and people may start to think like humans

You really have such a low opinion of women that you believe they would prefer to become pregnant and then have an abortion rather than to prevent the pregnancy? Let's start with a man, if he doesn't want to become a father and bankroll a child for the rest of his life then HE should accept responsibility for preventing pregnancy. If he makes a deposit then he may have just bought a lifetime of debt to the bank of a child. Everyone complains that the women should be preventing pregnancy and not having sex if she doesn't want a child. She won't be pregnant without the man will she?

And for the "other types of sex" they can do, they don't prevent disease. And so called christians believe that any sex other than "straight" sex is immoral as well. But that is missing the point.

There comes a time when society has to stop punishing women. Abortion is not something you just wake up one day and say "I think I'll abort this cell because I haven't bought all the expensive clothes and purses I want yet". Seriously, do you think women are so stupid that they would rather undergo a medical procedure to end a pregnancy than to have prevented it? It's time to start telling men to either bag that thing or be prepared to be a father or at least an ATM for a child. Men either don't care if they impregnate someone or they brag and say they've got 12 kids aren't I the best thing around. Women become pregnant because some guy said "I'm sterile" or a form of birth contol failed.

What is wrong with people that they believe women just line up to have sex so they can have an abortion? Are they flipping nuts? Ask someone who has had an abortion and it isn't done lightly. And another thing, people who rant and rave against abortion have done it themselves. So they wanted the choice for them but they don't want anyone else to have that option. They are like "reformed" sinners. When they were drinking and doing drugs it was great. But when they supposedly quit they want to stop everyone from having a beer or a cocktail.

And as for thinking like humans, they are thinking like humans. They use their emotions not just the analytical parts of the brain. They fall in love and think this is it. So you're really willing to have a whole generation born into poverty and to stay there. I don't think that is the answer either.

I have a lowly opinion of anyone who lacks the intelligence to realize that abortion is killing a human life. I also have such an opinion of people who supported slavery.
Following is the number of slaves each of the 12 slaveholding presidents owned.(CAPS indicate the president owned slaves while serving as the chief executive):[1]
- GEORGE WASHINGTON (between 250-350 slaves)
- THOMAS JEFFERSON (about 200)
- JAMES MADISON (more than 100)
- JAMES MONROE (about 75)
- ANDREW JACKSON (fewer than 200)
- Martin Van Buren (one)
- William Henry Harrison (eleven)
- JOHN TYLER (about 70)
- JAMES POLK (about 25)
- ZACHARY TAYLOR (fewer than 150)
- Andrew Johnson (probably eight)
- Ulysses S. Grant (probably five)

Credit for the above statistics given to:
http://www.gvsu.edu/hauenstein/slaveholding-p...

Abortion is the most barbaric social policy in the history of mankind. And as slavery, ultimately,(at least in this country) became universally accepted as being an outrageous and unfathomable social policy, so will abortion.
Can any of you reading this post who supports abortion imagine how anyone could have possibly supported slavery- let alone 12 former presidents who actually owned slaves? That is the type of mental transformation that will be necessary for you to realize that abortion is murder. At some point in the future, your family members will also look back with bewilderment as to how you did not have the sense to know that abortion was killing your offspring.
I haven't read one valid argument to support abortion on this site or anywhere else- because there is none. If you think this world is too crowded- then move over and let the next new life experience the most enchanting and phenomenal experience on earth.

While you may think abortion is barbaric I haven't seen you talk about preventing conception. I'm grateful that you aren't the deciding factor on reproduction. Whether or not you agree with it is your choice. Don't have an abortion. And no woman "wants" to have one. Instead of concentrating on abortion why don't abortion foes work on trying to prevent conception? Abortion isn't murder. There is nothing there that is breathing. There is nothing able to survive outside the womb in 90% of abortions. To say it's murder is to say a woman who doesn't conceive is guilty of murder because the egg wasn't fertilized. When as a society we are more concerned with supporting every child that is born in all ways possible including the right to be a homosexual then let's have this discussion again. But until you will support the rights of the born then this is a subject that is best left up to the woman.

Southern Lady wrote:

You really have such a low opinion of women that you believe they would prefer to become pregnant and then have an abortion rather than to prevent the pregnancy? Let's start with a man, if he doesn't want to become a father and bankroll a child for the rest of his life then HE should accept responsibility for preventing pregnancy. If he makes a deposit then he may have just bought a lifetime of debt to the bank of a child. Everyone complains that the women should be preventing pregnancy and not having sex if she doesn't want a child. She won't be pregnant without the man will she?
And for the "other types of sex" they can do, they don't prevent disease. And so called christians believe that any sex other than "straight" sex is immoral as well. But that is missing the point.
There comes a time when society has to stop punishing women. Abortion is not something you just wake up one day and say "I think I'll abort this cell because I haven't bought all the expensive clothes and purses I want yet". Seriously, do you think women are so stupid that they would rather undergo a medical procedure to end a pregnancy than to have prevented it? It's time to start telling men to either bag that thing or be prepared to be a father or at least an ATM for a child. Men either don't care if they impregnate someone or they brag and say they've got 12 kids aren't I the best thing around. Women become pregnant because some guy said "I'm sterile" or a form of birth contol failed.
What is wrong with people that they believe women just line up to have sex so they can have an abortion? Are they flipping nuts? Ask someone who has had an abortion and it isn't done lightly. And another thing, people who rant and rave against abortion have done it themselves. So they wanted the choice for them but they don't want anyone else to have that option. They are like "reformed" sinners. When they were drinking and doing drugs it was great. But when they supposedly quit they want to stop everyone from having a beer or a cocktail.
And as for thinking like humans, they are thinking like humans. They use their emotions not just the analytical parts of the brain. They fall in love and think this is it. So you're really willing to have a whole generation born into poverty and to stay there. I don't think that is the answer either.

I thnink you may have a low opinion of women, in case you did not read I said , the person that invents an on~off switch for the male sperm passage way will make a million. Why does the women have to be the one taking all the pills. Why don't women tell men to take birth controll pill. This is my opinion humans have not evolved. Look at it logically. I need sex so bad that I can not contrll myself. I do not realize I can get, or get some one preg. So now as a last resort I made a mistake so I am going to either have an abortion or in some cases on the mans part ,I am going to mak this women have an abortion. How can you say we have evolved. Why are you making abortion a women thing. The reason an abortion would be performed is because it was a man and a women thing that caused it to begin with. Think about that for a while.

Ps, I really don't get your point about "other kinds of sex also can give you stds. I realize that of course. We were talkikng about pregnancy and abortions. Other kinds of sex CAN prevent pregnancy which can prevent abortions.

Yes, it takes two to tango. But I've not seen many men who really want to give up their time and raise a child. Or who will willingly give up their money to support one. It's not that I have a low opinion of women. I don't believe a child should be born into poverty. Women don't make the same money men do. Every job I've had in my life I have been paid up to a dollar and hour less than a man. And that's only those that I know about. It could have been more. That, over the course of a child's lifetime is 58k less than a man would make. And don't forget that a good part of child support payments are NEVER collected.

Even when a couple are married, raising a child isn't easy. Add into that the anguish over a divorce and the loss of income. I'm just saying that a woman is the best judge of whether or not she can raise a child. And if it isn't possible for her to do so then it's up to her to decide. Not me, not you. It's between her and her doctor. Because as I've said in the past, the rich will always have their legal abortions. They always have and they always will.

Do you feel a women has the right to have an abortion without telling the man that copulated with her.?? Notice I use the word ccccccccopulated as when animals copulate. Once again animals at least realize responsibilities even if it is jus instinct. I jus. Don't get laws also they should be very firm in making the man be responsible. That is the only way I feel that some men will think before getting with a women. Example: a man does not support his kid he jus looses his right to copulate

Ps , a women does not support her kids she looses her right to copulate

In this day and age, I would hesitate to involve a man if I knew I couldn't raise a child. Because I'm not willing to be forced to carry a baby for nine months then turn it over to someone else. Unless it is a very committed relationship, I'mnot saying a word. And to be honest, if I can have the baby on my own I wouldn't likely involve the father unless it was a very committed relationship. Even in the best of circumstances most marriages fail. So why tie yourself to someone for the rest of your life?