Abortion Debate - Kenosha, WI

A life is a life. It should not be legal to take a life that is innocent.

And life does not begin at conception. It is a zygote. A cell. Don't tell me I have to have a baby and I won't tell you you have to support it. You keep your hands off my ovaries and uterus. When you have one you can make your own decisions. The decision on whether or not I will have a baby isn't up to you. I will stand on judgement day and answer for my decisions. Not you.

Southern Lady wrote:

And life does not begin at conception. It is a zygote. A cell. Don't tell me I have to have a baby and I won't tell you you have to support it. You keep your hands off my ovaries and uterus. When you have one you can make your own decisions. The decision on whether or not I will have a baby isn't up to you. I will stand on judgement day and answer for my decisions. Not you.

I agree with you. You will. An interesting opinion.

Sorry, I'm spending too much time on forums where they are rude and nasty and I'm unfortunately picking up some bad manners.

Until the day comes when every child can be born into a home where it's wanted we will see abortion. If we can prevent conception we will prevent abortion. While I understand that many people are against birth control, it isn't realistic to expect people to be celibate until marriage or to only have sex when they want a baby. Which means people of all ages will be having sex and pregnancy will occur. Premarital sex has always occurred and always will. And it is expensive to raise a child and most people cannot raise afford more children. I get so frustrated when people concentrate on abortion and not on preventing conception. It seems so short sighted.

Southern Lady wrote:

Sorry, I'm spending too much time on forums where they are rude and nasty and I'm unfortunately picking up some bad manners.
Until the day comes when every child can be born into a home where it's wanted we will see abortion. If we can prevent conception we will prevent abortion. While I understand that many people are against birth control, it isn't realistic to expect people to be celibate until marriage or to only have sex when they want a baby. Which means people of all ages will be having sex and pregnancy will occur. Premarital sex has always occurred and always will. And it is expensive to raise a child and most people cannot raise afford more children. I get so frustrated when people concentrate on abortion and not on preventing conception. It seems so short sighted.

That's OK. I agree. It can get rough on these forums. It's part of the Topix games. It's easy to get caught up in it. Overall I agree with what you say. Children shouldn't have to pay because of our play. In my oppinion there are too many abortions and there are too many parents that don't take responsibility for their actions. There are many children being raise by themselves while their parents continue to think that life is just about their own good time. The push for everyone to have sex is also out of control. It is a very complex problem. I understand your conclusions. Thank you for sharing how you feel about this. More honest discussion is needed.

I wish I could get through to teens that having a "baby momma" or "baby daddy" isn't a good thing. They do not understand that for the rest of their life they are linked to that person. There will be holidays when they will have to get along or stay away. And young girls in particular do not understand that not knowing who the daddy is isn't a good thing for the child.
I know I'm getting older because I can see the pitfalls they are going to face. They have no clue that the worst thing to come out of sex isn't the baby. It's the venereal diseases, the hepatitis, the HIV. They can become sterile because the STDs. And the lack of education. That alone will keep them in poverty and make their life harder than it needs to be.
I've seen too many religious groups that ask them to sign the abstinence pledge and wear the ring. That is nice but it isn't the answer. They don't understand that promiscuity is not healthy and a lack of self respect. We all hope our children will wait until they old enough to handle the consequences of their choices. But statistics show that more teens are having sex and unprotected sex at that. If we can't stop them shouldn't we at least try to protect them? I think not educating them about birth control is like taking a child to candy store and telling them the when they are old enough to eat candy and deal with the cavities they can have some. And not until. Take them to the candy store, explain to them that they should not try to eat it all and give them a toothbrush, paste and floss and tell them good oral care will prevent cavities. Just as birth control will prevent pregnancy. Just my opinion again.

And it doesn't help haveing the candy shoved in their face from morning to night day after day. In my oppinion the things you have touched on should be incorperated with an all out revolt against the glorification of it. It seems that the powers that be all seem to take the same aproach. It's all or nothing. Protection with no abstenace. Or abstenance with no protection. It's reached a point where society should go at this with all guns blazing. Just a figure of speach. This is just some of my thoughts on this matter.

As a society we glorify sexuality. Everything is sold by sex appeal. Not pretty enought? Have surgery and people of the opposite sex will flock to you. Sex is no longer an expression of love in many cases. It's just fun and anyone will do. We will never find a solution to the issue because it has been here since the beginning of time. There has always been premarital sex but is has become something that is now affecting young children where in the past it was older teens and young adults. Unfortunately, Jerry Springer and those types of shows are not lies. I see this behavior in some of the young people every day. No clue who the daddy is, and living at home with grandma raising the baby so they can still run around or taking the baby out with them and hanging with the boy who is selling drugs or in a gang. And they think they are "grown up". No clue that being a grown up involves working to take care of that baby and paying their own way. Not to mention that STD's can lead to cancer or sterility. Birth control should be readily available but they have to be educated that pregnancy can happen to them or they won't utilize it. And that it is an everyday thing not just when you think about it. Pills and condoms don't work if you carry them in your pocket and don't take them.
It would be a wonderful world if children could just be children and not have to deal with sex, bullying and all the negatives in the world until they were mature enough to handle it.

If parents would hold the boy accountable and make him take care of the baby, abortion problem would dissapear over night. Why are men allowed to breed when they do not support or take care of babies.????????? Just give parents of the girl full permission to hnold the man accountable. You will start to see young men act more mature an respect women. Of course women do need to respect themselves also, and not try to trap or manipulate men. Why would a women lay down with a man if she was not sure he would help support the child???? I think most abortions happen when the womwn and man do not want to support , or and also not want a child at this time. I mean seems like humans have not evolved, there areother things a man an women can do sexually which will not cause pregnancy. Just hard to understand people some times????

docreflex wrote:

If parents would hold the boy accountable and make him take care of the baby, abortion problem would dissapear over night. Why are men allowed to breed when they do not support or take care of babies.????????? Just give parents of the girl full permission to hnold the man accountable. You will start to see young men act more mature an respect women. Of course women do need to respect themselves also, and not try to trap or manipulate men. Why would a women lay down with a man if she was not sure he would help support the child???? I think most abortions happen when the womwn and man do not want to support , or and also not want a child at this time. I mean seems like humans have not evolved, there areother things a man an women can do sexually which will not cause pregnancy. Just hard to understand people some times????

Interesting points

Unfortunately we do not live in a utopian world where people will do the right thing and support their children. And if your son fathers a baby it's still pretty hard to "make" them support it. Usually the grandparents wind up doing so. If my daughter has a baby at least I know it's my grandchild. Not so sure if your son becomes a father unfortunately. So maybe it's time to consider requiring anyone who dates your underage daughter to provide a dna sample so you can either prove he's the father or eliminate him? Unfortunately, girls today are behaving like many boys have in the past. They don't seem to realize that while it may funny to some to see the disasters on Jerry Springer it's not fun to live that disaster.
It's all well and good to teach your child abstinence but to truly love your child you should also teach them the responsiblities of becoming a parent too young. And how to prevent it. My biggest complaint of the abstinence education is that they have taught young adults that birth control fails and there isn't a good way to prevent pregnancy. So why would they choose to use it? And you can't just tell them to use it once they turn 18 after you've told them it fails. It's time to stop the lies and tell them the truth. You can ruin your future becoming a parent in your teens. You may only delay your future. But you will always have that other person in your life. And if they have a crazy family they will always be in your life. No matter who you go on to marry.
As far as "other things" they can do to prevent prenancy, well, don't forget there are STDs out there. HPV virus causes oral and genital cancers. And both sexes get them. Protection is vital if you want to see your child grow up to be an older adult. I've seen too many young adults under 30 die from mouth and throat cancers who have never smoked and it was traced back to oral HPV.

Holding a young man accountable is not "utopia" or perfect world. It is parents being allowed to be parents. Not have a bunch off excuses why a young man is treated like a child who does not know any better, please. So why can't they make a law that if the dna test come back you the daddy you must be accountable???

Yeah the male has to be accountable. But what about the female. Hey have a baby get a check for the next 18 yrs, and if you have a few of them you can get several thousand dollars at tax time. Tell the system you don't know who the baby daddy is. then you can have the dude come over when you want some sex and kick him out when ever things don't go just the way you want it. You can threaten him the rest of his life. Just say the baby needs this or that and then you can go out and get some new shoes and a dress. And the good part is you can deny him the right to see his child anytime you want. Being irresponsible can go both ways. Southern Lady you make alot of good points. And dorcrflex their is a law. But it is easy to get around for women. The system still favors the mother. She is looked at as if she is "The Mother" while the father is looked at as an uncareing sex fiend that is just a punk. Prove your a real man. While it just assumed that because you are a female, you are a good mother. And it is hell proving that she is not.
Perhaps this will stir up more conversation in Kenosha.:)

Yes that is the whole point! Don't give her a check and make him accountable.

docreflex wrote:

Yes that is the whole point! Don't give her a check and make him accountable.

Agreed, only I think I would say make them accountable. I think I do understand your point and I agree. Your a Dad now. Step up and be a man. Your child needs you.

Yes why not make it that they. Have to name the dad and do a dna, accountability. Why all the loop holes?? Same for immigration why all the loop holes. Scan the green card before they work. Why all the problem, why bspend money for border patrol. Jus scan the green card , is the gov trying to make us a third world countries ?? Have corporations taken over???

Some good questions.

Some very good points here. I'm all for a better system to verify that child support is spent on the child. But dont' forget, that includes the roof over their head, a vehicle to take them to the doctors, insurance, school fees, clothes, food, toys, hair cuts, baby sitting, after school activities, lunches, and all the other things children need. Maybe a system like a health savings account. Where the money is available but has to be documented how it's spent.

Maybe it's time to have mandatory parenting classes for both parties. And mandatory monitoriing of children born to children under the age of 18. I think everyone should have access to free birth control. It's a sure way to cut down on welfare. I've gotten pretty tired of the "every child conceived needs to be born and let them give them away" theology. Let's change it to "every child conceived should be wanted." And let the parents choose the timing. Free Norplant or other birth control for all.

As for the green card. Do you realize how many Americans are non white? And they are here legally and have been for decades? And in some cases centuries? Why not just ask every person for proof of their citizenship? Can you prove you are an American? Do you have a paper that says you are one? Oh, yeah, it'a birth certificate. Guess what? That isn't good enough for some. They want a long form. I have friends who are of Latino descent. For generations they have all married Latinos in this country. They are as American as I am as a white anlgo saxon but they have to prove it every day. And I don't. But someone white from Europe or even a white from any country would not be asked to prove their nationality. We have some huge flaws in this country. But I'm off topic.

Sorry but I don't think abortion is the answer, when you leave abortion as an option is when you have unwanted pregnancies and children. In the back of themind is well I can get an abortion, morning after pill, etc. When you don't bgive help of any kind when young men and women will act like it, instead of out of controll babies. Kids are babied too much. You baby them when they are babies bafter that treat them as people who are accountable. As for off topic ..you do not need citizenshijp to work. You need to have come in here legallywith green card. Green cards are just about impossible to forge. They are high tech. Once they are scanned they wouldb know if legal or not. America is just looking the other way....... enter the current beconomic. Collapse. We need to decide if the USA will make them legal and gob honest after this, that would be the question. I thought Obama wastoadress this as he got a huge latino vote. Btw latinos are not the only illegal group ask any trades men bin the chicago area.,how many lost bjobs , an how many american kids had no option to be in trade, all within last. 20 years. Seen this all play out. I knew real estate would collapse>>>>> >>>no good jobs no pay mortgages, can only afford small apartment, will take 20 years for home prices to come back. Everything is connected. My theory, theory only , lots a theories out there!!!!!

Okay, here's a thought. Let's give every American the right to open a business and run it for 5 years and not pay any taxes. Then they can sell it to a family member and they can run it for 5 years with no taxes. And so on and so on. That would be fair since we do it for foreigners.

As for the abortion issue. It is a medical procedure that should be between a woman and her doctor. Period. If you believe in judgement day then she and the doctor will answer for it. Not you, not me. She knows what is right for her. Most people who become pregnant do so because some form of birth control failed. Not because they didn't use it. But then again, when we teach our young people that birth control is not effective then why should they even think about using it? After all, why spend money on that somethat fails. And some states teach that 3/4 of birth control fails.

The economic collapse is directly related to greed. People in this country are still told to spend spend spend and we'll get the country back on track. How do you do that when you're borrowing the money to spend? Stop spending what you don't have! That goes for everyone. I do not understand how a politician can say we can use dollars saved in one area on something else. Those aren't dollars! Those are projections. The dollars aren't there they are borrowed. It's not money until it's here. Try that with your personal finances and see where it gets you.