Toyota: The real story

Reading your theory....I had an epiphany of sorts. Could it be the same government that is now going after Toyota was actually protecting them in the past? What better way to rid our country of unions once and for all by not actually going after toyota for obvious problems 9 years ago (when quality actually started slipping and gas pedals were sticking) during the Bush administration. Toyota has been building sub-standard cars for years now, and it's all out in the open now. Any way you look at it 8 billion (and counting) car recalls is huge news. Coupled with the mass deception, its bound to be in the news for months and even years....all toyotas own doing.

My brother owned a Korena brand suv and had tons of expensive repairs within 60,000 miles. Brake booster, steering parts, alternator and so on. he often bragged about what a good deal he got and laughed at my U.S. built 2003 Ford Escape with 140,000 miles and nothing but standard maintenance. His reasoning was that he heard that his brand was reliable and assumed his problems were not typical. Sadly we are a nation of sheep who follow the media lead. Really, Toyota must now rise or fall on its product, not on what we hear from Consumers Reports or the guy down the block. A new recall today on the large Sequoia SUV......

Bob wrote:

My brother owned a Korena brand suv and had tons of expensive repairs within 60,000 miles. Brake booster, steering parts, alternator and so on. he often bragged about what a good deal he got and laughed at my U.S. built 2003 Ford Escape with 140,000 miles and nothing but standard maintenance. His reasoning was that he heard that his brand was reliable and assumed his problems were not typical. Sadly we are a nation of sheep who follow the media lead. Really, Toyota must now rise or fall on its product, not on what we hear from Consumers Reports or the guy down the block. A new recall today on the large Sequoia SUV......

But Consumer Reports gets their information from all the "guys down the block", collectively. I'd still take their recommendations over say, yours, any day. Much better odds.

i am american.. and I root for the home team in olympics and in business... say what you want toyota is not american.

Is this director's cut or not?

My Toyota has 120,000 miles on it and only one minor repair so far. Good performance, good mileage. Best car I ever drove. I'd buy another used one if I could afford it, but they're in hot demand.

I hear the Ford Focus is reliable. The rest of what comes out of Detroit is crap. I'd like to buy American, but only when this country learns how to do engineering again. Not going to spend my money on crap.

liner wrote:

<quoted text>
But Consumer Reports gets their information from all the "guys down the block", collectively. I'd still take their recommendations over say, yours, any day. Much better odds.

Actually consumer reports until 2007 didn't even talk to the "guy down the street" By it's editors admission, Champion said they gave Toyota's automatic "recommend" status without even testing them. Now Toyota builds junk and consumer reports is exposed as a biased rag with an agenda. I wouldn't buy a dog house recommended by them.

letsmakesense wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually consumer reports until 2007 didn't even talk to the "guy down the street" By it's editors admission, Champion said they gave Toyota's automatic "recommend" status without even testing them. Now Toyota builds junk and consumer reports is exposed as a biased rag with an agenda. I wouldn't buy a dog house recommended by them.

You're correct about their new vehicle recommendations. Their reliability rankings, however, are derived from their annual subscriber surveys, which have generally proved to be fairly accurate.

When ANY auto maker has a consistant problem that results in the death and maiming of its driver or passengers, it better be a newsworthy event. It better be investigated to a complete resolution. It better be made known to any and all car owners or potential passengers. If not, why do we need "watchdog organizations"? You know, like DOT and NHTSA? They are supposed to be the enforcers for our safety. They are government entities, set in place for that purpose. If they fail, if they look the other way, if they "let it slide, this time", what would it take to get them to "look into" claims of vehicle problems?? It doesn't matter who made the car. But in this case, since it was Toyota, many people would like to think they are being held to an unfair standard of scrutiny. Ask yourself this simple question: How many accidents and deaths are "acceptable" in this unintended acceleration scenario? If and when all other car makers have the same number of incidents as Toyota has had, we may see what that number is, statistically. One death from that issue is TOO MANY! I do not think there is any reason or need to look for hidden motives or conspiracy theories. When people die because of a car problem, it is serious and it needs to be completely resolved, at any expense, by any responsible car company!!

Greg wrote:

When ANY auto maker has a consistant problem that results in the death and maiming of its driver or passengers, it better be a newsworthy event. It better be investigated to a complete resolution. It better be made known to any and all car owners or potential passengers. If not, why do we need "watchdog organizations"? You know, like DOT and NHTSA? They are supposed to be the enforcers for our safety. They are government entities, set in place for that purpose. If they fail, if they look the other way, if they "let it slide, this time", what would it take to get them to "look into" claims of vehicle problems?? It doesn't matter who made the car. But in this case, since it was Toyota, many people would like to think they are being held to an unfair standard of scrutiny. Ask yourself this simple question: How many accidents and deaths are "acceptable" in this unintended acceleration scenario? If and when all other car makers have the same number of incidents as Toyota has had, we may see what that number is, statistically. One death from that issue is TOO MANY! I do not think there is any reason or need to look for hidden motives or conspiracy theories. When people die because of a car problem, it is serious and it needs to be completely resolved, at any expense, by any responsible car company!!

Agree. We first saw this in action during Ford's Pinto gas tank debacle. They decided it wasn't worth the buck or two it would have taken to prevent the problem.

darin wrote:

i am american.. and I root for the home team in olympics and in business... say what you want toyota is not american.

100% agree with you!!!!!!!

liner wrote:

<quoted text>
You're correct about their new vehicle recommendations. Their reliability rankings, however, are derived from their annual subscriber surveys, which have generally proved to be fairly accurate.

The opinions of people are all over the internet on all sorts of topics, yeah I'm going to put faith in the opinion of people when it comes to cars LOL

Buick good, chevy bad, they came off the same assembly line and contain mostly the same mechanical parts and people think the info is worth paying for ?

2004 good 2005 bad 2006 good, same exact vehicle

The only honest way to judge vehicles would be in fleet testing and by the time the test was completed what differance does it make when the cars are than old models and the lastest model has been redesigned.

I forget how they collect the data, but without safe guards to keep car salesman from joining and trashing the other peoples cars what good is the info ?

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
The opinions of people are all over the internet on all sorts of topics, yeah I'm going to put faith in the opinion of people when it comes to cars LOL
Buick good, chevy bad, they came off the same assembly line and contain mostly the same mechanical parts and people think the info is worth paying for ?
2004 good 2005 bad 2006 good, same exact vehicle
The only honest way to judge vehicles would be in fleet testing and by the time the test was completed what differance does it make when the cars are than old models and the lastest model has been redesigned.
I forget how they collect the data, but without safe guards to keep car salesman from joining and trashing the other peoples cars what good is the info ?

Agree with you about the internet, Joe. Including the idiotic stories about "Consumer Reports only recommending the cars that buy the most advertising in the magazine". But CR has been doing this for a long time. I would say they know what they're doing.

darin wrote:

i am american.. and I root for the home team in olympics and in business... say what you want toyota is not american.

That is SO stupid! People who will buy any kind of crap as long as it came out of a plant on U.S. soil give American industry no incentive to stay at the forefront of quality engineering and customer care. And that leads to what we see with Chrysler and GM today - uncompetitive, broken American industry.

If American companies don't have to compete with the best that's out there, they will die, simple as that. So if you want to be patriotic, make our companies compete; buy the best, whether it's Japanese, German, Korean, or American. Then you'll see U.S. companies get serious again and make good products, like Ford.

liner wrote:

<quoted text>
Agree with you about the internet, Joe. Including the idiotic stories about "Consumer Reports only recommending the cars that buy the most advertising in the magazine". But CR has been doing this for a long time. I would say they know what they're doing.

you are nieve to be so trusting considering all that has gone on in the last few years exposing the morals of people in this country today. CR is a business and the people running it are making money. When it comes to the almighty dollar in the USA yuppies have proved over an over they have no morals.

There is no oversight of the company so they are free to cook the numbers all they want as are the people who give them the info.Anyone who has done any sort of honest study of things would laugh at their methods and the lack of oversight. The global warming bunch got caught red handed twisting the facts.

If you think the bunch running CR didn't sit around in meetings talking about how to increase membership by telling people want they want to hear, you live in lala land.

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
you are nieve to be so trusting considering all that has gone on in the last few years exposing the morals of people in this country today. CR is a business and the people running it are making money. When it comes to the almighty dollar in the USA yuppies have proved over an over they have no morals.
There is no oversight of the company so they are free to cook the numbers all they want as are the people who give them the info.Anyone who has done any sort of honest study of things would laugh at their methods and the lack of oversight. The global warming bunch got caught red handed twisting the facts.
If you think the bunch running CR didn't sit around in meetings talking about how to increase membership by telling people want they want to hear, you live in lala land.

Only thing is, Consumers Union is a non-profit organization. And I don't believe they have ever lost a lawsuit against them. So, while this may be your opinion about them (which you're certainly entitled to), it isn't supported by any facts that I'm aware of.

liner wrote:

<quoted text>
Only thing is, Consumers Union is a non-profit organization. And I don't believe they have ever lost a lawsuit against them. So, while this may be your opinion about them (which you're certainly entitled to), it isn't supported by any facts that I'm aware of.

There are few non-profits because most are run by people getting paid so they are working for a profit, it just benefits them in the form of a nice salary at a no pressure job.

There is no way to get the facts, to blindly believe it's all on the up & up in todays shyster world is very nieve.
I was once a member for a year and did the car report thing and you want to blindly believe I made an unbiased report when I have an attitude about imports and also you want to blindly believe people who hate unions like the UAW made unbiased reports about their cars and on top of that blindly believe the people employed by CR are all boyscouts above reproach and wouldn't have the slightest bias.

What are you like well up in your 80's or 90's and some relic of long ago when people where mostly honest ? Yuppies have no morals, see hosuing crises for an example, they will sell a $30,000 a year landscaper a $700,000 house as long as they get their commision check.

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
There are few non-profits because most are run by people getting paid so they are working for a profit, it just benefits them in the form of a nice salary at a no pressure job.
There is no way to get the facts, to blindly believe it's all on the up & up in todays shyster world is very nieve.
I was once a member for a year and did the car report thing and you want to blindly believe I made an unbiased report when I have an attitude about imports and also you want to blindly believe people who hate unions like the UAW made unbiased reports about their cars and on top of that blindly believe the people employed by CR are all boyscouts above reproach and wouldn't have the slightest bias.
What are you like well up in your 80's or 90's and some relic of long ago when people where mostly honest ? Yuppies have no morals, see hosuing crises for an example, they will sell a $30,000 a year landscaper a $700,000 house as long as they get their commision check.

I'm not quite that old, but I'm also not THAT paranoid either.

Yep and the left stated that "Faisal Shahzad" was a right wing tea partier,, Yea Wright

Pure leftwinger...even had OHHbama sticker on his Toyota at the air port.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Rules for radicals baby!!!!!!!

letsmakesense wrote:

Reading your theory....I had an epiphany of sorts. Could it be the same government that is now going after Toyota was actually protecting them in the past? What better way to rid our country of unions once and for all by not actually going after toyota for obvious problems 9 years ago (when quality actually started slipping and gas pedals were sticking) during the Bush administration. Toyota has been building sub-standard cars for years now, and it's all out in the open now. Any way you look at it 8 billion (and counting) car recalls is huge news. Coupled with the mass deception, its bound to be in the news for months and even years....all toyotas own doing.

Wow put your ideas (quality started slipping 9 years ago) together with the fact Toyota opened their plant in Alabama in 2001 and it tells a whole new story. Could it be much of their problems started happening when they began building the vehicles with US workers? I am not saying that is the reason, but a good question to ask. Specially when you starting doing some research and find that Toyota closed down their US factories and started "retooling" them after the gas pedal issues came to light. Guess it is something we should think about.