Survey: More Ukrainians want Russia's fleet out

Wow, this poll tells much.

We have all been saying that given enough time, Ukrainians will understand the truth about their freedoms and how to secure them. As they shake off old Soviet ideas, they are learning for themselves what is truth.

In the West, for business, we call it 'Change Management', meaning it is very hard to change oneself, ones views and ones actions especially after we become set in our ways. It takes time and effort to understand, be convinced and to believe.

A minimum of 60% of Ukrainians want the fleet out (if you split the undecided vote).

I was really surprised that the change in opinion in Ukraine's eastern areas was so much. A three fold increase in those polled want the fleet out. Thats a WOW. Even a HOLY COW. Even opinions in the south areas have changed.

And ..... 50% of Ukrainians feel threatened by Russia's fleet being based in Ukraine. The bear is waking and the animals in the forest are beginning to take notice.

A very easy solution. Crimea has mostly a Russian population simply it rightfully belongs to Russia anyway, so Crimea can simply go back to Russia where it belongs.
Problem solved.
The Ukrainian vote on this issue is moot.

Stefan wrote:

Wow, this poll tells much.
We have all been saying that given enough time, Ukrainians will understand the truth about their freedoms and how to secure them. As they shake off old Soviet ideas, they are learning for themselves what is truth.
In the West, for business, we call it 'Change Management', meaning it is very hard to change oneself, ones views and ones actions especially after we become set in our ways. It takes time and effort to understand, be convinced and to believe.
A minimum of 60% of Ukrainians want the fleet out (if you split the undecided vote).
I was really surprised that the change in opinion in Ukraine's eastern areas was so much. A three fold increase in those polled want the fleet out. Thats a WOW. Even a HOLY COW. Even opinions in the south areas have changed.
And ..... 50% of Ukrainians feel threatened by Russia's fleet being based in Ukraine. The bear is waking and the animals in the forest are beginning to take notice.

Even in Crimea attitudes are changing.

There are many Ukrainians citizens in Crimea of different and --especially mixed --ethnic ancestries: Russian, Ukrainian, Crimean Tatar, Belarusians, Tatar, Armenian, Jewish, Black Sea German, Roma, Bulgarian, Pole, Azerbaijani, Korean and Greek.

Ukrainians, whether of Russian ancestry, or mixed Ukrainian-Russian ancestry, or Ukrainians of Crimean Tatar ancestry, or any other ancestry are still today's Crimean Ukrainians.

Ancestry has nothing to do with citizenship or loyalty to Ukraine.

Ukrainians, regardless of ancestry, across Ukraine, from Pripyat in the north to Crimea in the south, are beginning to see their national identity take on coherence and shape, as Ukraine becomes more democratic and asserts its sovereignty.

Russia's increasing neofascism helps make Ukraine's democratic choice more attractive.

I think we are forgetting to make a very important point here. As was discussed, unfortunately almost in passing, recently: the Constitution of Ukrainians bars dual citizenship! So the "Russians" in Crim had better decide if they are really Russian, or are they Ukrainian? If they are Russian (i.e.: they have a RF passport) they need permission (i.e.: a visa) to remain in the Ukraine.
Can this be made any more clear!?

Canuck check out the legal aspects of who Crimea belongs to and you will find out it is Ukraine. Crimea has a Ukrainian population not Russian. They might have Russian heritage but they are Ukrainian. If not then they have to have permission to be in Ukriane. You do not understand much at all about passports or countries rights. Do you?

Ig Kiev-SF wrote:

I think we are forgetting to make a very important point here. As was discussed, unfortunately almost in passing, recently: the Constitution of Ukrainians bars dual citizenship! So the "Russians" in Crim had better decide if they are really Russian, or are they Ukrainian? If they are Russian (i.e.: they have a RF passport) they need permission (i.e.: a visa) to remain in the Ukraine.
Can this be made any more clear!?

The citizens of Crimea must have a free vote on the independence issue, to be free of Ukrainian oppression. This will have to be done without Ukrainian interference.
Then the will of the people in Crimea will then come to pass.

JohnK wrote:

Canuck check out the legal aspects of who Crimea belongs to and you will find out it is Ukraine. Crimea has a Ukrainian population not Russian. They might have Russian heritage but they are Ukrainian. If not then they have to have permission to be in Ukriane. You do not understand much at all about passports or countries rights. Do you?

The Russian people in Crimea do not need Ukraine's permission to be there contrary to what you or your so called Ukrainian government thinks.
Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia and eventually will either become independent or be part of Russia once again.

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
The Russian people in Crimea do not need Ukraine's permission to be there contrary to what you or your so called Ukrainian government thinks.
Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia and eventually will either become independent or be part of Russia once again.

Crimea was legally transfered to Ukraine as retribution for past Soviet misdeeds. In Ukraine it stays. As more and more Ukrainians from the rest of Ukraine move there, the percentages will change and so to will the political will.

Russians with valid Russian passports are free to go home.

Canuck look up the legal facts. I have and even according to Russia they have no right to Crimea. If you have a Russian passport in Ukraine then you are Russian. If you have a Ukrainian passport you are Ukrainian. If you work for another government against your own government then you are a spy and can be shot. According to the Geneva Convention. Check it out. If you are not in the military and not in uniform.

Interested article I read about Crimea and the BSF.

Most (please read MOST) of the service men that retire from the RBSF obtain Ukrainian Passports and remain living in Crimea.

This tells me that the residents of Crimea are less concerned with National and ethnic politics then they are of being a Crimean resident. In other words being a Russian national is not that important to them.

This is very important since it eliminates any strong desire to separate from Ukraine.

The article also stated how in Sevastopol that Russian and Ukrainian Navy personnel are very close friends and that they would never take arms up against eachother.

So Russia trying to incite separatism in Crimea will not work like it did in South Ossetia. Most Ukrainians and Russians are peace loving people and certainly don't want to fight eachother.

Lastly, the locals in Sevastopol stated that they know of all the activists that were trying to push for separation, by name. They are small groups operating out of one or two buildings and funded by Moscow. Most residents don't give them the time of day.

I think Crimea has autonomy within independent Ukraine, with a majority russian population i cannot see Russia leaving Sevastopol anytime in future.

JohnK wrote:

Canuck check out the legal aspects of who Crimea belongs to and you will find out it is Ukraine. Crimea has a Ukrainian population not Russian. They might have Russian heritage but they are Ukrainian. If not then they have to have permission to be in Ukriane. You do not understand much at all about passports or countries rights. Do you?

I don't think Canuck understands much about anything except his preconcieved pro-Russia, anti-everyone else rhetoric.