Ukrainian veterans dismayed by Yushchenko praising Ukrainian InsurgentArmy

Isn't it understandable if , after decades of Bolshevik Russian disinformation and demonization of Ukrainian Insurgent Army, it is normal for some octogenarian Red Army veterans to be against Ukrainian Insurgent Army?

It's hard to unlearn that is once learned. Soviet era nostalgia still plays a huge role for 40+ crowd.

Krishnamurty wrote:

Isn't it understandable if , after decades of Bolshevik Russian disinformation and demonization of Ukrainian Insurgent Army, it is normal for some octogenarian Red Army veterans to be against Ukrainian Insurgent Army?

Why is it that in USA and Canada, Ukrainian Red Army, Wehrmacht and UPA veterans are understanding of their war experiences?

Krishnamurty wrote:

<quoted text>
Why is it that in USA and Canada, Ukrainian Red Army, Wehrmacht and UPA veterans are understanding of their war experiences?

U would rather discuss Holodomor issues, i like that. So, how many people died in Ukraine? 10 as per your info or 15 as per the current ukrainian president?

Obviously not all Red Army veterans are dismayed by Yushchenko praising Ukrainian Insurgent Army....

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Ukraine/ss/even...

Why does Interfax, the Russian "news" and disinformation agency, keep putting on a Ukraineophobic spin on all of its articles?

Yushchenko is promoting reconciliation, forgiveness, and healing --something that should have been done for the Red Army and Ukrainian Insurgent Army veterans over 60 years ago.

Isn"t Ukraine and the world a better place because of reconciliaition, forgiveness and healing?

Jampa wrote:

Obviously not all Red Army veterans are dismayed by Yushchenko praising Ukrainian Insurgent Army....
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Ukraine/ss/even...
Why does Interfax, the Russian "news" and disinformation agency, keep putting on a Ukraineophobic spin on all of its articles?
Yushchenko is promoting reconciliation, forgiveness, and healing --something that should have been done for the Red Army and Ukrainian Insurgent Army veterans over 60 years ago.
Isn"t Ukraine and the world a better place because of reconciliaition, forgiveness and healing?

When Israel found people who were living in the US having the US citizenship obtained after the war and proved those people were fighting alongside with fascists killing Jews, The US canceled their citizenship and deported them.

So, which reconciliation are you talking about?

The US has never charged any Ukrainian Insurgent Army soldiers that is for sure.

Does anyone know of the US deporting any Ukrainians or "proving" anything?

Jampa wrote:

The US has never charged any Ukrainian Insurgent Army soldiers that is for sure.
Does anyone know of the US deporting any Ukrainians or "proving" anything?

Man ordered deported for guarding camps

From Journal Sentinel wire reports

Saturday, October 26, 2002

New York -- A federal judge has ordered the deportation of a 79- year-old man who served as an armed guard at slave-labor camps during World War II, the Department of Justice announced Friday.

U.S. Immigration Judge Mirlande Tadal ruled Thursday that Mykola Wasylyk, 79, should be deported to Ukraine, the former Soviet republic he considers his native country.

Wasylyk guarded prisoners at the Trawniki and Budzyn forced labor camps in Nazi-occupied Poland from April to November 1943, Tadal said.

Wasylyk entered the United States in 1949 using a visa obtained in Germany and became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

A call Friday to Wasylyk's residence in Ellenville, a rural community 75 miles north of New York City, was not returned.

"Armed guards like Wasylyk ensured that Jews and other prisoners could not escape the starvation, disease, overwork and murder to which they were subjected on a daily basis in the Nazi camps," said Eli Rosenbaum, director of the Office of Special Investigations, which brought the case on behalf of the Justice Department.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6154128.html

First of all war is a very terrible thing. For one I don't think that it was any beneficial to Ukraine when it was occupied by the Nazi or by the Soviet Red Army. One way or the other they were just as cruel and brutal. It just made the Ukrainians a lot more stronger and I do hope that from this Ukraine well now long be an independent country. Long live Ykraina! God Bless Ukraine!

Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Man ordered deported for guarding camps
From Journal Sentinel wire reports
Saturday, October 26, 2002
New York -- A federal judge has ordered the deportation of a 79- year-old man who served as an armed guard at slave-labor camps during World War II, the Department of Justice announced Friday.
U.S. Immigration Judge Mirlande Tadal ruled Thursday that Mykola Wasylyk, 79, should be deported to Ukraine, the former Soviet republic he considers his native country.
Wasylyk guarded prisoners at the Trawniki and Budzyn forced labor camps in Nazi-occupied Poland from April to November 1943, Tadal said.
Wasylyk entered the United States in 1949 using a visa obtained in Germany and became a naturalized U.S. citizen.
A call Friday to Wasylyk's residence in Ellenville, a rural community 75 miles north of New York City, was not returned.
"Armed guards like Wasylyk ensured that Jews and other prisoners could not escape the starvation, disease, overwork and murder to which they were subjected on a daily basis in the Nazi camps," said Eli Rosenbaum, director of the Office of Special Investigations, which brought the case on behalf of the Justice Department.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6154128.html

Wasylyk was not in the Ukrainian Insurgent Army so how can this misleading post possibly be relevant?

Furthermore the deportation hearings such as this one do not prove criminality merely "reasonable" suspicion of lying on an immigration application.

Some Russians were ordered deported also on grounds of reasonable suspicion lying about their "Nazi past."

The John Demjanjuk case is a good example of that. He's still living in the US and appealing his deportation to the US Supreme Court. He is not under trial for war crimes. He was already cleared of that by Israel. He's been ordered deported for suspicion of lying on his immigration application after WWII. His case has been appealed to the US Supreme Court on grounds his human rights and constitutional rights have been violated.

There has never been a Ukrainian Insurgent Army soldier deported from the USA or Canada or any other free country.

Why are Russian chauvinist Ukraineophobes from Russia posting irrelevant drivel on this forum?

Jampa wrote:

The US has never charged any Ukrainian Insurgent Army soldiers that is for sure.
Does anyone know of the US deporting any Ukrainians or "proving" anything?

Bloody moron you even don't know the history
Examples

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/2006December...
There is a bunch of people in here, among them 2 Ukrainians
etroit-area men are facing possible deportation for allegedly helping the Nazis kill and persecute Jews and other civilians during World War II. A look at them and three other Michigan cases:
_Iwan Mandycz, 86
Nationality: Born in a Polish village that now is part of Ukraine.
War history: In 1943, served as a guard at SS-run Trawniki and Poniatowa slave labor camps in Poland. Justice Department says Mandycz's unit cordoned off Poniatowa camp on Nov. 4, 1943, so SS and German police could march 14,000 Jewish men, women and children into trenches to be shot.
How he got to U.S.: Concealed Nazi service to immigrate in 1949 and became a citizen in 1955.
Afterward: Was a Chrysler autoworker, retired in 1983. Federal judge revoked his citizenship in 2005. Justice Department is deciding whether to seek deportation. Family said he has Alzheimer's disease.
What he says: Denies working for Nazis.
_John Kalymon, 85
Nationality: Ethnic Ukrainian, born in Poland.
War history: Justice Department says he joined the Nazi-run Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, which helped the Nazis exterminate most of the 100,000 Jewish residents of L'viv, Poland, in 1942-43. Wartime records say he fired several shots at Jews, killing one and wounding another, in 1942 roundups.
How he got to U.S.: Concealed Nazi service to immigrate in 1949; became a citizen in 1955.
Afterward: Worked as a draftsman for Chrysler and retired in 1989 after 25 years.
Status: Government has asked a federal judge to strip him of citizenship so he can be deported.
What he says: Admits lying on visa application, but denies shooting or persecuting Jews.

Second example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/11045...

Next
http://visalawcanada.blogspot.com/2008/02/naz...
and many more.
Particularly when Israel found those Ukrainians in the US Israel is powerful enough to ask the USA to deport them to Israel where they were charged for what they did.

and this
http://canadiancoalition.com/forum/messages/2...
happens thanks to bloody idiots like you
when Canada became a haven for WWII criminals.

Isn't it true that Israel did not convict John Demjanjuk in spite of all the tainted and discredited Bolshevik Russian supplied evidence could not pass forensic muster?

Isn't that why he is still in the USA?

Isn't the point also that none of these irrelevant examples cited "prove" anything anything because the Ukrainian Insurgent Army 33fought both twin evils of Russian Bolshevism and German Naziism?

Evil Aussie Russian spy can't understand how one stands up and fights for ones country. All he knows is how to hide on an island in the Pacific.

Stefan wrote:

Evil Aussie Russian spy can't understand how one stands up and fights for ones country. All he knows is how to hide on an island in the Pacific.

Is that why you hide in Canada rather than stand for your country in Ukraine?

Is it not another case of the pot calling the kettle black?

Jampa wrote:

Isn't it true that Israel did not convict John Demjanjuk in spite of all the tainted and discredited Bolshevik Russian supplied evidence could not pass forensic muster?
Isn't that why he is still in the USA?
Isn't the point also that none of these irrelevant examples cited "prove" anything anything because the Ukrainian Insurgent Army 33fought both twin evils of Russian Bolshevism and German Naziism?

Don't worry. Israel is not Ukraine and Mossad when found your gorillas from UNA knew what to do with them. That's in Canada you are protected, in other countries that's completely different situation. Which is why Canad has about 2000 war criminals from Ukraine.

Now read those examples about Ukrainian war criminals deported
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/924909.ht...
from USA
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...
in Germany
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2007/November/07_...
from the USA

etc.
So, your Ukrainian supporters of Germany were revealed and deported and their citizenship canceled. Even in the US.
Learn history moron.

Observer wrote:

<quoted text>
Is that why you hide in Canada rather than stand for your country in Ukraine?
Is it not another case of the pot calling the kettle black?

The difference is if you could understand it would be that I support my people being free from Russian dominance. Free from Russian language, culture and corruption. That was never the Ukrainian way and so I support my country going back to its roots.

Others like Aussie are being unsupportive of Ukrainains bid for real freedom, calling them Nazis and other demeaning insults.

The big difference between us, is that I believe my people can move away from the shadow of Russian dominance, and others like Aussie want to see Ukrainians stay as slaves to their master.

Your comparison is without merit!

Stefan wrote:

<quoted text>
The difference is if you could understand it would be that I support my people being free from Russian dominance. Free from Russian language, culture and corruption. That was never the Ukrainian way and so I support my country going back to its roots.

Yes, but you do all that from the comfort and safety of living in Canada.
Helping your people would mean you going to help them demonstrating. Would you do that?
The answer is no! You are all rethoric and no action.

Aussie wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't worry. Israel is not Ukraine and Mossad when found your gorillas from UNA knew what to do with them. That's in Canada you are protected, in other countries that's completely different situation. Which is why Canad has about 2000 war criminals from Ukraine.
Now read those examples about Ukrainian war criminals deported
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/924909.ht...
from USA
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...
in Germany
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2007/November/07_...
from the USA
etc.
So, your Ukrainian supporters of Germany were revealed and deported and their citizenship canceled. Even in the US.
Learn history moron.

This forum refers to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. No veteran of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army has ever been deported for war crimes. You spout discredited Russian disinformation originating in the Stalin era.

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army had many non-Ukrainians in its ranks, including Jews, and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought the twin evils of German Nazism and Russian Bolshevism.

For the sake of Ukraine, we should stop spreading that lie: there was no genocide and Khrishnamurty is just a mischivious Tatar from Krimea.

Stefan wrote:

<quoted text>
I support my country going back to its roots.

Explain us how you do that.