- Turkey's place is not in Europe'

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

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You could live like 100 % Muslims!!! Islam is not Asian, European or Arabian....It is Universal code of conduct for all humans of this earth.
Your langauge, geographical boundrees and race does not come in you living like 100 % Muslims.
It is strange that it is only Islamic Governments in Turkey who want EU membership.
As to my knowledge there never was Islamic Government in Turkey for past 80 years. Some political parties having soft corner for Islam wee elected once or twice, but they could not complete their terms, to the best of my knowledge.
They were toppled by the Military and some people were even hanged.
It is your so called "Secular" parties that were vying for EU memberships.
When rejected by EU parlaiment, they are putting blame on each other.
Secularists in Turkey would even give their eye ball to get EU membership. But now it is sour grapes, so every one wants to distance itself from it.
May be in the beginning , when EU idea was new and had few takers, Turkey could have become its full member. But when more countries became its mmebers and its actual implications were seen, they decided to exclude Turkey from its membership. May be it was a lost opportuinity in 1960 s, but who was ruling Turkey in those days?

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

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This is another of Turkey’s dilemma. May be that is the reason Turkey was not made full EU member!!
Turkey is not a Secular country. Despite all pretensions and efforts of more than 80 years, Islamic character of Turkey is not erased. It can never be erased.
So called Secularists in Turkey want to ape the examples of Christian European countries, to pass off as a Secular Country. They fail to realize the basic difference between Islam and Christianity.
By its very nature, Christianity is a Secular idea. They do not have a code of conduct described in their scriptures. They tried the rule by Church and that period was the worst in their history. So they have no choice but to return to Secular Concept.
The position of Islam is exactly opposite. Islam has a fully developed code of life that touches every aspect of Human and state. By becoming Secular, you declare that you are not Muslim any more. Islam is not a label like present day Christianity, which you put on your shirt. It is a state of belief and surrender.
I know majority of Muslims think that by keeping a Muslim sounding name (and / or by following a few rituals) is sufficient to become a full fledged Muslim. If you study Quran, such is not the case.
That is why Turkey can never become a Secular country like other Christian countries. Bulk of Turkey’s population is Muslim by heart. Whenever they get a chance they declare their Islamic Identity. So called secularists on the other hand use the forces of Military, Police, Judiciary and Media to force their views on the Majority population. They have not succeeded in past 80 years and they never will.
As to you, why honor is not given to us if we adhere to Islam, the answer is the honor is given to the level of our adherence to Islam and its teachings. More the people of a country are adhering to Islam, the more honors they get.
In my view Taliban and Saudi Arabia get more honor in the eyes of world that the so called Secularists in Turkey and else where. They are seen as hypocrites and imitators of western thoughts and no imitator or hypocrite ever gets real honor, in this world or the next.
Now to Carrot theory, just wait if any positive response comes from Brussels, then we will see your rejection of full EU membership. Right now it is sour grapes as I told.
A bigot also denotes a person, who has double standards, a hypocrite actually. That is what I mean by Secular Muslims!!!

PeaceInTurkeyPeaceInWorld wrote:

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we are totally secular.....
we are totally modern
we are totally turkish...

THAT CRAZY TURKS wrote:

ooo turkey i cant believe you re what great
everyone to feel admire you
you extraordinary more more extraordinary
thanks great turkish football team for semifinal

bugarin wrote:

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I see that you are well grounded of Quran, please answer me:
Are the women complete humans, according The Quran? And if the answer is YES - do they have all human rights in muslim states

Hard Turk wrote:

<quoted text>I am sure you know that the world laughs at Saudi Arabia and says,how backward country Saudi Arabia is!
I know + 1 more thing than these people.It is that Saudi Arabia is governed by Jew elite!Her king is Jew!
You were saying Saudi Arabia has 800 billion dollars in USA banks.The truth is they are Jew Banks and you drink cold water over your money.
A nation that is so stupid all its wealth is stolen by Jew trying to give lessons to Turks?Let me answer you by Ataturk's words:
Those uncivilized nations are always sentenced to be crushed under the boots of civilized nations!

PeaceInTurkeyPeaceInWorld wrote:

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I have never stated that I AM NOT MUSLIM: I am AS MUSLIM AS YOU ARE: ELHAMDULILLAH.
BUT I am totally secularist... only way to become more modern. Islamic world needs modernised in every area. not just in politics.
I hate islamic governments not the nations. look at palestine, Iraq. None of Arabic states can say : AMERICA STOP IT!
but WE SAID NO TO USA: our assambly did not give permission in 2003: just because secular and democratic state. if we were arabic kingdom... you know the rest...

Ersel wrote:

Hi all,
I am the one who immigrated to Turk&#305;ye &#305;n 1989.So it means that I am a Turk of Bulgaria.It is so easy to talk on any subject from miles away.Let me make your confused mind clearer.
Almost 450.000 Turks immigratde to Turkiye in 1989.So have you any postulates or info why that people immigrated to Turk&#305;ye even they were born there and had been living since 1600.May be all you inform me and make me learn my own history.
Turks of Bulgaria never had a activity against Bulgar&#305;a and we all still love Bulgaria.cos.it is our motherland.And I th&#305;nk that there is no any state which had been founded to make comfortable forigners and to guarantee their rights.Bulgaria tried to to assimilate Turks of Bulgaria changing our Turkish names with Bulgarian names and we did nothing against it was so s&#305;mple it was their own country and they could live as they wish,I just respect.We did't try to shoot any or we had no guns holdin against Bulgarians.If you don like what you see you better go on.And we did it.
So where were Kurds while other nations were trying to found a country.Or why were Armenians so weak that they became subject of a genocide.Yes I accept we did it but not in different way that any other nation did.
Armenians tried to kill Turks to get land and they were unable.It is so simple if Armenians were enough they would kill easily many Turks.So we are not stupids to let any to kill us.You are waiting for an excus what we won.I can assure you that it is going to take much time.And it is always nice to win.
Hey men stop trying to shame on Turkiye but we do not really care about it,really.You do not think any you just dream.You all,the ones against Turkiye,offer us to let other nations to kill us.It is not logical.That the true history of the nations not imaginary history full with shit human rights.And if you want to really know much about Turks I advice you to read some on
Gallipoli Wars.
email:ersel_ozgur@hotmail.com

Ayhan Ozcimbit wrote:

Now that they do not want Turkland in EU, we do not want them either. We dont want FASIST EU. It apears that Most of Greeks and Armenians ( also in france) are racist and Fasist. Sarcosy must know one thing well. Middle East, Caucasia are very far to The EU from now on. No way to Armenia to EU. Sarcosy and all racists above againist Turks, proves that The EU is a Crusaders Union. If we were Catholic or Orthodox, we would be the member of EU 40 years ago.

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

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I think brother, you really do not understand what Muslim is and what Secularism stands for? Otherwise you would not have said that I am Total Muslim and Total Secular. That is the misconception people , who have no real knowledge about Either Islam or so called Secularism.
Islam means surrendering your will to Almighty God and live life as per His Instructions given in Quran and Sayings of prophet. The teachings of Quran and prophet are as modern as anything and have complete flexibility to adjust to varying situations. But there are limits and you cannot break those limits and still be a Muslim.
A Secular on the other hand, does not recognize any higher power in making the law. He thinks, humans or Parliaments are Sovereign in making laws. They have full powers to make any law and their laws have superiority over every other law, irrespective of whether it is mentioned in Quran and Sayings of the prophet.
Tell me, how can you be a True Muslim and True Secular at the same time? If you say so, then either you are a hypocrite or do not understand the meanings of Muslim or Secular.
You are wrong that to be modern, you have to become secular. This is a misconception which is propagated by the Western Media. Because in Christianity there is no other choice but to become secular. Their religion is incomplete and has no directions for many areas of life.
Islam is a complete code of conduct. It is the media propaganda, which have demonized Islamic laws as inhuman and against progress.
Most of so called Muslim or Islamic countries have real Islamic governments. Their leaders are in control of Western Powers and their leaders. That is why you see people and Government are following different paths.
Let me say, the same is true for Turkey also. The people like Islam and Islamic teachings, the Government is bent upon to stop it.

Moiz Qidwai wrote:

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You have spoken the truth at last, if you were catholics or orthodox, you were made EU members 40 years back!!!
This same advise was given by Quran 1400 years ago "Jews and Christians will never (ever) be satisfied with you, unless you follow their brand of religion"
After trying for 40 years, Turkey has realised that they cannot get EU membership. But your remarks are like sour grapes.
It is high time, that you throw the other western cloack which is covering you, the so called Securaism. Turkey is 99.8 % Muslim country, come back to Islamic and become a true Muslim nation.
Your fate was irrevocably sealed with other Muslims, the day you announced your SHAHADAH.