Armenian Body In Switzerland Wary Of Talks With Turkey

I totally agree with my compatriots in Switzerland.This dialog about the Genocide as a bargaining chip to open the Armenian Turkish borders will discredit the Armenian Cause and the reality of the Genocide.International participation and view is needed.

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg238935.html

It is easy to bark from Mexico street dog. Your cause is already discredited. You are the real genociders of Azeri Turks. You are the invaders of their country. Barking from Mexico does not chance the reality...

vatchakan wrote:

I totally agree with my compatriots in Switzerland.This dialog about the Genocide as a bargaining chip to open the Armenian Turkish borders will discredit the Armenian Cause and the reality of the Genocide.International participation and view is needed.

Attila Han wrote:

It is easy to bark from Mexico street dog. Your cause is already discredited. You are the real genociders of Azeri Turks. You are the invaders of their country. Barking from Mexico does not chance the reality...
<quoted text>

The only barking I hear is in your post, behave yourself!!!

At least I am barking at my home. You are barking in Mexico and disturbing Maxican for nothing valuable for them. Come home! street dog and bark at home. At the end you'll be a street dog again but honest one...

vatchakan wrote:

<quoted text>The only barking I hear is in your post, behave yourself!!!

Attila Han wrote:

At least I am barking at my home. You are barking in Mexico and disturbing Maxican for nothing valuable for them. Come home! street dog and bark at home. At the end you'll be a street dog again but honest one...
<quoted text>

The reason I am in Mexico is because my Armenian ancestors were brutally murdered by Turks in Anatolia,all our property confiscated,only a few survived the mass deportations. We are not able to continue being Armenians in our land of 5000 years. Our land was overrun by barbarians who have had no respect for our culture or religion.People who were your grand parents did this, and by reading your post I realize that the apple does not fall far from the tree.

vatchakan wrote:

I totally agree with my compatriots in Switzerland.This dialog about the Genocide as a bargaining chip to open the Armenian Turkish borders will discredit the Armenian Cause and the reality of the Genocide.International participation and view is needed.

The real question is- at one point does the patient (Armenian) decides he is tired of being a victim.
Its not about AG,its about healing and moving on.Last thing I want my kids to demonstrate in front of Turkish embassy about AG.That picture is pretty old and outdated.
Majority of Armenians are in poverty in Armenia.Armenia needs the border open and start healing.No country should be stuck issues over 90 yrs old.
China does lot of business with Japan and yet Japan never apologized Chinese about ww2 massacres
but life goes on.
Another thing.AG should be our pain and sorrow and frankly I don't a turk's apology or resituations which would not change history nor it will resurrect the dead.
Time is now to move on.I knew Serj was smarter then Kocharian and I am very impressed with him so far.

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
The real question is- at one point does the patient (Armenian) decides he is tired of being a victim.
Its not about AG,its about healing and moving on.Last thing I want my kids to demonstrate in front of Turkish embassy about AG.That picture is pretty old and outdated.
Majority of Armenians are in poverty in Armenia.Armenia needs the border open and start healing.No country should be stuck issues over 90 yrs old.
China does lot of business with Japan and yet Japan never apologized Chinese about ww2 massacres
but life goes on.
Another thing.AG should be our pain and sorrow and frankly I don't a turk's apology or resituations which would not change history nor it will resurrect the dead.
Time is now to move on.I knew Serj was smarter then Kocharian and I am very impressed with him so far.

I am for peace and prosperity, as long as the price is not the denial of Genocide.

As you did not reply my questions about your wildness and genocides, I assume that you do not wish to talk. If my people are completely enemy of yours, what Turkish Armenian are doing here? They never want to go back to Armenia. Can you imagine that Turks living in Armenia that easy? Weren't you the one killing all Turkish people ( specialy burocrats ) abroad for years. Weren't you the one terrorized Turkish innocent people and spreading your genocide trial to the World? Are you doing these for a peaceful purpose? Did Turkiye ask the bill of your murderings in Anatolia during WW1? But you repeated it again in Azerbaijan.

Shortly Vatchakan, you are not the one to talk about murderings or genocide in this World!

vatchakan wrote:

<quoted text>The reason I am in Mexico is because my Armenian ancestors were brutally murdered by Turks in Anatolia,all our property confiscated,only a few survived the mass deportations. We are not able to continue being Armenians in our land of 5000 years. Our land was overrun by barbarians who have had no respect for our culture or religion.People who were your grand parents did this, and by reading your post I realize that the apple does not fall far from the tree.

Attila Han wrote:

As you did not reply my questions about your wildness and genocides, I assume that you do not wish to talk. If my people are completely enemy of yours, what Turkish Armenian are doing here? They never want to go back to Armenia. Can you imagine that Turks living in Armenia that easy? Weren't you the one killing all Turkish people ( specialy burocrats ) abroad for years. Weren't you the one terrorized Turkish innocent people and spreading your genocide trial to the World? Are you doing these for a peaceful purpose? Did Turkiye ask the bill of your murderings in Anatolia during WW1? But you repeated it again in Azerbaijan.
Shortly Vatchakan, you are not the one to talk about murderings or genocide in this World!
<quoted text>

All nations have lightside and darkside, but only by accepting our shadow side are we able to grow and become civilized, otherwise we remain barbarians.

I agree. But your government and diaspora are the one who does not let the past stay in the past. If we will shake hands, both sides must be aware that carrying the past to nowadays, just bring more blood and sadness. Was it worth to attact and kill many Azeris at the end of 20'th century? For what? For years of terrorism called asala, was it worth to kill innocient, unarmed people? for what? Although you terrorized Turkish for years and killed many Azeri Turks, Turkish Armenian still lives here and a group of Turkish Armenian were attacked in Armenia just because of their different opinions.

I think you have been in Mexico for a long time and you are far away the reality. How offen you visit your country?

vatchakan wrote:

<quoted text>All nations have lightside and darkside, but only by accepting our shadow side are we able to grow and become civilized, otherwise we remain barbarians.

Attila Han wrote:

I agree. But your government and diaspora are the one who does not let the past stay in the past. If we will shake hands, both sides must be aware that carrying the past to nowadays, just bring more blood and sadness. Was it worth to attact and kill many Azeris at the end of 20'th century? For what? For years of terrorism called asala, was it worth to kill innocient, unarmed people? for what? Although you terrorized Turkish for years and killed many Azeri Turks, Turkish Armenian still lives here and a group of Turkish Armenian were attacked in Armenia just because of their different opinions.
I think you have been in Mexico for a long time and you are far away the reality. How offen you visit your country?
<quoted text>

Often..........

Attila Han wrote:

I agree. But your government and diaspora are the one who does not let the past stay in the past. If we will shake hands, both sides must be aware that carrying the past to nowadays, just bring more blood and sadness. Was it worth to attact and kill many Azeris at the end of 20'th century? For what? For years of terrorism called asala, was it worth to kill innocient, unarmed people? for what? Although you terrorized Turkish for years and killed many Azeri Turks, Turkish Armenian still lives here and a group of Turkish Armenian were attacked in Armenia just because of their different opinions.
I think you have been in Mexico for a long time and you are far away the reality. How offen you visit your country?
<quoted text>

200,000 Turks<1.5million Armenians

vatchakan wrote:

<quoted text>I am for peace and prosperity, as long as the price is not the denial of Genocide.

Vatchakan,

Sahakian's post demonstrates how reasonable a person he is. And I respect him more now.

Noone tells you to forget what your ancestors lived. Turkey's objection is the word: "genocide" We know that your ancestors died, but our ancestors also died in the conflict. I can understand that your tragedy is more difficult to absorb since you, in the end, had to leave your homes. But you should understand that we are not celebrating the deaths of your people. Our objection is about the wording. It depicts the events one-sided which is not true.
We are sorry. I wish 1st WW never happened, millions of people did not die, and we were talking about Armenian and Turkish music instead of death, killings and war right now.

We are similar people and we should move on. This hatred should not keep going on for another century. Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Turkey should sit down, resolve their problems, and work together for peace and prosperity in the region.

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
The real question is- at one point does the patient (Armenian) decides he is tired of being a victim.
Its not about AG,its about healing and moving on.Last thing I want my kids to demonstrate in front of Turkish embassy about AG.That picture is pretty old and outdated.
Majority of Armenians are in poverty in Armenia.Armenia needs the border open and start healing.No country should be stuck issues over 90 yrs old.
China does lot of business with Japan and yet Japan never apologized Chinese about ww2 massacres
but life goes on.
Another thing.AG should be our pain and sorrow and frankly I don't a turk's apology or resituations which would not change history nor it will resurrect the dead.
Time is now to move on.I knew Serj was smarter then Kocharian and I am very impressed with him so far.

I agree with your comment on Armenia's new leader. He seems to be making a real effort for a positive diologue with Turkey.Turks are hopeful for a positive response from Gul,to accept Serj's invitation to Armenia for the soccer match. As for your comment on Armenians needing to move forward regarding AG issue,this will be a tough one...Armenians in the Diaspora have been influenced to push for and demand recognition from Turkey by the Diaspora leaders and encouraged to protest and rally and slander todays Turkish Government for denying the past events. This kind of aggressive public behaviour only will bring negative results from the Turkish side.However, just recently, a group of ethnic Armenians from Armenia have started 'peace' campaigns in Armenia to begin a positive relationship with Turkey.They have traveled to Istanbul, met Istanbul Armenians, as well as other ethnic groups and are encouraging more Armenian youth to travel to Turkey and are calling for the Diaspora to end their hostility against Turkey and Turks. With organizations like ANCA, this is going to be an impossible task, but we'll see.

Serkan wrote:

<quoted text>
Vatchakan,
Sahakian's post demonstrates how reasonable a person he is. And I respect him more now.
Noone tells you to forget what your ancestors lived. Turkey's objection is the word: "genocide" We know that your ancestors died, but our ancestors also died in the conflict. I can understand that your tragedy is more difficult to absorb since you, in the end, had to leave your homes. But you should understand that we are not celebrating the deaths of your people. Our objection is about the wording. It depicts the events one-sided which is not true.
We are sorry. I wish 1st WW never happened, millions of people did not die, and we were talking about Armenian and Turkish music instead of death, killings and war right now.
We are similar people and we should move on. This hatred should not keep going on for another century. Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Turkey should sit down, resolve their problems, and work together for peace and prosperity in the region.

I shake your hand my Turkish acquaintance.

Serkan:I have to thank you for posting so intelligently.

As we all do; different positions on different pages, some thymes get us excited, others angry...
Do you really dislike Kurds? With a little polish even the pale wood can shine. The secret is not to let the wound become too big, on either side.

I really liked your post on this page, pretty much the best I have read on this forum for the last 4 months.

I like what Sahagian is saying, I agree with the idea of letting go.The wound has to get healed.
But realistically speaking we can not let go of our legitimate claims on Kars and Ardahan, at least it has to become demilitarized and a Franc Zone open to Armenian and Turkish trade and Transportation.

May God make you happy Vatikan! You made me laugh in the morning...

vatchakan wrote:

Serkan:I have to thank you for posting so intelligently.
As we all do; different positions on different pages, some thymes get us excited, others angry...
Do you really dislike Kurds? With a little polish even the pale wood can shine. The secret is not to let the wound become too big, on either side.
I really liked your post on this page, pretty much the best I have read on this forum for the last 4 months.
I like what Sahagian is saying, I agree with the idea of letting go.The wound has to get healed.
But realistically speaking we can not let go of our legitimate claims on Kars and Ardahan, at least it has to become demilitarized and a Franc Zone open to Armenian and Turkish trade and Transportation.

The Right To Fight With Delight...

Every forum has it's enemies (Trolls) but it seems the Turkish forum has more then others.

So, it's our pleasure to fight and defend our rights with delight no matter what it takes...

vatchakan wrote:

Serkan:I have to thank you for posting so intelligently.
As we all do; different positions on different pages, some thymes get us excited, others angry...
Do you really dislike Kurds? With a little polish even the pale wood can shine. The secret is not to let the wound become too big, on either side.
I really liked your post on this page, pretty much the best I have read on this forum for the last 4 months.
I like what Sahagian is saying, I agree with the idea of letting go.The wound has to get healed.
But realistically speaking we can not let go of our legitimate claims on Kars and Ardahan, at least it has to become demilitarized and a Franc Zone open to Armenian and Turkish trade and Transportation.

Dear Vatchakan...
you are a reasonble man and i feel genuinely trying to not nly befriend us but also find a solution about this long drawn out saga....
i`m sure the numbers of armenians exceeding the turkish losses in the beginning of 1900s is a difficult issue to come to terms with and as you also say both sides are gulity of inflicting harm on the other and we all wish that it was never instigated at all..but times were then and this is now..since then the world has changed,the people have changed in both societies shaped by the events within their control and without.The world has become a much more just,tolerant,intelligent place where radicalism and ultra-nationalism have largely been eradicated-to the apparent dismay of some on both sides of the border!
therefore ,being stuck in the dark pages of history is from whatever angle you look at, is no longer an option for any nation,country or individual if one needs to move on with the times,prosper and prepare a better future for all concerned...yet i see most of the time,people who have not even lived in armenia,or who can -with the technology at our disposal-shoot from the hip an these computer keyboards,trying to come to terms with issues,while the real peoole on the streets of yerevan and eastern turkey as well as azerbeijan,can no longer wait as they are swept from one meaningless conflict after another in the name of this pervceived national pride or that!
frankly i have one last message for all concerned;STOP THIS STUPIDITY AND START LIVING PROPERLY,PAST IS PAST THAT WE CANNOT DO ANYTHING FOR,BUT WE MAY STILL SHAPE THE FUTURE ,ALTHOUGH IF ARE LATE ENOUGH,THAT MAY ALSO BE NO LONGER AN OPTION.so here it is in black and white as the texts on these pages ,take your pick.I know what i am going to do;i am -as promised earlier-trying each and ever way as to how we can become genuine friends instead of constant warriors of the past.