New protest in Belgrade scheduled for 9th of May

Ms Sara wrote:

A new SMS invitation is circling around the country of Serbia since couple of hours ago:
"92.godine su nam rekli da ce sankcije trajati 2 nedelje.Danas im je Mladic bitniji od svih nas!Protest-SRBIJU U EVROPU!9.5.17h Trg Republike Beograd
SALJI DALJE"
In an unlikely case you don't speak Serbian here's the translation:
"In '92. they told us that the sanctions will last two weeks. Today, Mladic is more important to them than all of us! PROTEST - SERBIA TO EUROPE! 9.5. 17h, Republic Square, Belgrade
SEND IT FORWARD"
Protest is organized by LDP (Liberalno demokratska partija, eng: Liberal Democratic Party), GSS (Građanski savez Srbije, eng: Civic Aliance of Serbia) and SDU (Socijaldemokratska unija, eng: Social Democratic Union) according to B92 news in Serbian.
Why the 9th of May? Well, it's Europe day, and Serbias negotiations concerning Europe have just gone down the drain, thanks to the present goverment - so there is some symbolism there.
If you are not tired of protesting (but even if you are) come and show your support.

Listen you seem like you want whats best for Serbia right? Well let me tell you this. The serbs are sick of giving everything up for fake promises. once we give this up they want more and more. Forget it they wanted Babic, Seselj, Milosevic etc. They only do this so it shows that we are bad and are the aggresors. We gave in and were promised help but what did we get? Nothing. They said if we gave up Sarajevo the sanctions would stop. We give it up and they continue. Like the genious Seselj said " Mozete samo da prihvatite da me popusite kurac".

scorpion

Mundelein, IL

right on!

Wacky

Tarnovo, Bulgaria

You do not deserve to be in the EU anyway... What will you do here? Try to kill some more? Nobody wants you understand?

Superbian

Wacky wrote:

You do not deserve to be in the EU anyway... What will you do here? Try to kill some more? Nobody wants you understand?

First off of coarse Serbs killed. We were in a WAR idiot. I haven't heard of too many wars without killing. How dumb can you be it's not like we were just firing at random people. Croatians and Bosnians started the war by leaving and not letting the Serbians in their country vote. So if anything you should not want them and be mad at them. Furthermore the EU is a piece of shit. It sucks money from poor countries and gives more to Germany France and England. Even Italy wants to go back to the old currency. For all I care I hope we never enter the EU. Right now we can tax all imports as high as we want. You on the other hand can't and that's why eventually everyone is going to work for British/German/French companies and buy their products because they will be the cheapest. Have fun in the EU! It won't last too long understand?

scorpion

Mundelein, IL

bulgaria is so much better, they just always side with nazis.

Canadian

Wacky is hilarious. He doesn't realize that Serbs and Montenegrins are the same ethnic group, but he just hates Serbs. If you feel like hating a group of people for their ethnicity you should hate the whole lot and not just what CNN tells you, or whatever Bulgarian news agencies say. But i wouldn't expect much more from them anyways... I'm sure the EU will do just fine filled with Neo-Nazis like Wacky. I'm Canadian and happy living in Serbia, this country is absolutely beautiful!

Mozart

1. As testified by Krajina leader Babic, serbs started killing people first in Croatia. Serbs had a right to vote, but chose not to. Not to mention they rejected autonomy which everyone else agreed to. and if anyone mentions exodus of people out of croatia as cleansing, Babic testified that the leadership ordered population evacuation 2 days before Croatian troops entered Krajina. Hardly a criteria for traditional etchic cleansing experienced elsewhere, especially in Bosnia.
2. Big EU countries are nett givers of money ie. they give more than they get back. Therefore nothing to do with sucking money from poor countries. Look at ireland as an example of smaller countries joining EU.
3.As for Kosovo, I think you will find that Kosovo was formed after WW2 before Serbia. And if they are illegally in Kosovo due to migration etc then Serbs in Croatia are illegally there too. Afterall, it was the good will of Croatians all those years ago that let Serbs fleeing Ottoman empire to settle there, under protection.
4. Serbs dont have any say in what Montenegrins do. Its a state allowed to scede if it wants to.
5. Anyone who listens to Seselj is a madman. Afterall, this man still thinks Croatia is catholic serbia (he testified to that in Hague).
6. Serbs lots everthing they had due to their stupidity. Vojvodina for independence!!! I still find it funny how everyone wants to get away from serbia. y is that?

Canadian

I love that... you English are just as bad as the Americans.

Here's an idea: Try to consider that the Yugoslav wars were civil wars. No civil wars in the history of Humanity was ever clean. Croats are guilty of killing Serbs too buddy. What about Tudjman? He was the Croatian Milosevic.. just as bad. Seselj is a huge idiot, but the way you're accusing Serbs is just as bad.

By the way since you're talking about Kosovo and Croatia... Croats did the same thing to Serbs in Krajina that the Serbs did to the Albanians in Kosovo, there were warnings.. then there were mass expulsions (not the hundreds of thousands claimed to be murdered by your media)- so why should the Serbs lose Kosovo now?

Oh, and if you wanna talk about illegal wars: why not talk about Iraq? As i recall that war is considered illegal in the international community... killing innocent Iraqis left, right and centre. You guys are swift to accuse other countries of illegal wars, but won't consider that you yourself cause the same problems.. of which you'll try to deny again by claiming it was ruled by a tyrant or is full of terrorists or some other nonsense.

Mozart

They werent civil wars since countries were recognised in early 90's. Now you could argue Krajina serbs and Croat war was a civil war, however in that case someone needs to explain to me how Krajina serbs got war planes, anti-aircraft defences, tanks etc.

There are Croats guilty of war crimes, thats undeniable, however you cannot compare the maginude. For example, gotovina is accused of murder of about 140 civilians in the war? Mladic did 8000 in Srebrenica in one sitting. Now anyone getting killed is a tragedy, however the croatia and serbia cases cannot be compared. War in crotia started when Krajina decided to patrol its borders and expel any croatians out of Krajina. What happened in 1995 was after 4 years of croats being mistreated from Krajina and difficult negotiation to which serbs would agreed then changed their mind to every agreement. No wonder noone would support them when Operation Storm happened which was at the END of the war, not start or middle. In any case for your information and everyones the operation was supported in to save 250,000 people living in Bihac area from being expelled by approaching Bosnian serb army. why? that area was needed to link krajina to rest of serb lands.

Serbs are a minority in kosovo, just like serbs in croatia. its not for them to have a final say on what 95% of people in the country want to do. i dont see serbs asking hungarians or croatians in vojvodina on their final say on what serbia does, nor are they expected to. They had that in yugoslavia since WW1, but eventually luck was going to run out. serbia claim to kosovo is like french claiming waterloo in belgium. that it had to be theirs just because they lost a battle there.

As for tudjman, he may have been as bad as milosevic but he didnt have Yugoslav army behind him (the strongest non nuclear military in the world behind him) so i guess we will never know what he would have done had he had that. however I dont remember him arming croats in serbia and telling them to fight. thats the difference. serbs 1n 1990 had 12% of population but in war occupied militarily 30% if croatia...had 33% in bosnia, occupied 70% of bosnia in war. please dont tell me thats defense or any other bollocks like that.

In fact, Iraq was not considered illegal by all in international community. another sweeping statement like many you make. Some think it is, some dont, depends who you ask. im sure there is a different Iraq forum to discuss these things. And as for Canada arent you guys in Afghanistan aswell doing same thing?? but agian, thats for another forum.

Canadian

Why did the Serbs kill the most people? I'm gonna go ahead and say that half of the former Yugoslavian population was Serbian. If croatia had 11 million Croats spread across Yugoslavia it would have been Croats killing the most. If you have 500,000 Serbs in Croatia fighting a war with 2.5 million Croatians, you're going to arm them with whatever they need because they're your kin. Same with Bosnia. Don't forget that in Bosnia, Serbs had to deal with Bosnians, Croatians, the UN, and the Muja Hideen (sp?). Yea you know that group you call terrorists? They flocked there like sheep to fight against Croats and Serbs. That 8000 is definately terrible and the worst crime in Europe since WW2.. but again that wasn't blind. They didn't kill children, or women or anything like that.. maybe potential combatants? Not that i'm defending it the slightest.

How is it not a civil war when people are so tightly knit? Put a Croat, Serb and Bosnian muslim in a room and you can't tell them apart. They speak the same language, have similar cultures and lived side by side in a country for 80 years... if that's not a civil war i don't know what is.

Those wars were more complicated wars that we can possibly imagine. 500 Years of Turkish rule, Austro-hungarian genocide against Serbs in World War 1 (which nobody ever talks about), and Croatian death camps created for Serbs in WW2 can spark some pretty deep feelings. Something Canadians, English and Americans can never understand.

Don't forget that Belgrade always had many Croats, and Bosnians living there during the wars. Not a single Croat or Bosnian muslim was touched...

I suggest you try not to blame anybody for anything.. everyone in that war was a victem.

Mozart

Correction. its 500,000 serbs against 4,500,000 croatians. the fact that you cant even get close to the correct population is rather worrying.

the only thing serbs had to deal with in bosnia was their own paranoid and victimisation-filled state of mind, which they still cant get to terms to deal with and dont see when they are likely to really. Many people who died in bosnia or who did the killing were not in WW2 and were basing their opinion on dramatised stories of by their uneducated grandfathers who themselves probably didnt know. thats on all sides. ask a croat what cetniks did and there are many parallels to what ustasha did. deep feelings is deep paranoias, not
anything else. this is on all sides.

As for arming Serbs as next of kin, granted, however it was a bit of a land grab wasnt it? initially it was to so called protect the serbs but then they moved out further and further until 30% of croatia and 70% of bosnia was occupied. Honestly shelling zagreb, zadar, sibenik or dubrovnik is not self defense, its an attack. i wont even mention vukovar. its a land grab and there is plenty of evidence for it.

put a swede and a norwegian in a room, can you tell a difference? just because they look the same doesnt make it a civil war. civil war is a war inside a UN recognised country which croatia and bosnia were. serb JNA attack was directed from Belgrade with a fair percentage of serbian soldiers from serbia with weapons which slovenia and croatia mainly paid for in former Yugoslavia.

Noone talks about genocide in ww1 or ww2 because noone cares apart from croats and serbs. do serbs or croats for that matter talk about genocide of armanians by turkish? or genocide of chinese by japanese? is british betrayal at bleiberg discussed by serbs? noone cares because firstly its the past and secondly its a small part of the world. why should they talk about it? what do u think would happen if everyone agreed that say austro hungarians massacred serbs? do u think there would be sanctions? do u think that austriands and hungarians should be ignored and isolated by their friends? what? using the past to commit genocide against another peoples is hardly an excuse and its what Milosevic used to get serbs paranoid and then playing on their fears he installed himself as the saviour. in fact that serbs commited same what happened to them, including having death camps doesnt make them look better and the fact that they were the last to do it will mean that it is more vivid and will be installed in everyones mind.

I doubt milosevic went to war becasue of mujahadeen. I belive their presence was only discovered much after the war.

yes there were victims on all sides but magnitude cannot nor should it be compared. but one thing remains; not a single bullet was fired in serbia. as for no croats or bosnians being touched in belgrade i cannot tell. i doubt there arent many there anyway.

scorpion

Mundelein, IL

umm yeah 70% of bosnia and 30% of croatia? right its like serbs were aliens that just landing in those lands, look at pre civil war times moron, serbs ALWAYS occupied MUCH MORE land because they were FARMERS which meant they used lots of land while the muslims and croats typically lived in the urban areas, so learn why a distribution of population is, before you make yourself sound like a jackass.

Mozart

my friend it sounds like you need to check up on your history. My percentages are facts determined by observers and the like and what was testified by serbs at war crimes. as for generalised comment that only serbs were farmers and croats and muslims were in cities...i wont even comment on this absurd lack of knowledge.

Canadian

Alright you're way too far right in the political spectrum to try to argue with. My opinion is that you're either Croatian (which is why you hate Serbs so much), or that you're the typical English bloke who has never like serbs.. in fact an English leader during World War I said "If Serbia could be dragged out to sea and drowned the air of Europe would be a lot cleaner". Good for people like you... I'm embarrassed for you and the way you think.

If you've never been to Serbia i suggest you come visit and see how open, inviting and good the people are. I've visited almost every country in the Former Yugoslavia (not Slovenia and Montenegro) and Serbs are probably the most open minded and relaxed people - thank god its economy is one of the fastest rising in Europe (and in the world - 7% annual growth).

In fact since I've lived here i've had friends from Newcastle, Toronto, Dublin and Australia come visit and they've all loved it here and they're all planning to come back. Bullocks to you and your close-minded point of view.

Serbs are evil? Grow up... I think i've hear rhetoric like that.. tapes from 65 years ago in fact

oh by the way your percentages and facts are wrong. Check the CIA fact book..

Mozart

There seems to be confusion about what i meant about percentages. What Im talking about is the military occupation during the war. Its a well known fact that serb armies occupied areas beyond areas where serbs lived. This is also what a number of serb leaders during the war testified to, im not making this up (UN website).

As for serbs being evil, i said no such thing. I personally do believe that they were victims of miloseciv/karadzic/mladic/sese lj/babic propaganda who were opportunists who were clouded by their own political greed of wanting to be remembered as some sort of saviours. and they brought pain to their own people and others.

I never said anything about serbian economy nor anything about the beatifulness of serbia. Doesnt really contribute to what is discussed here really.

as for being the most open minded, well thats a matter of opinion. many former yugoslav republics do not see serbia favourly and to be fair, its with a good reason.

not sure what you were trying to achieve with the British leader comment. there are lots of comments by lots of people everwhere and all the time. depends which one we choose to concentrate on. surely people can get over one comment made 90 years go. surely. Im unaware of the comment so I cant comment on it, but I doubt you know the context the comment was made in.

As a matter of fact I was in Belgrade multiple times, before the war. As one military officer said after he was asked if he holidays in dalmatia: "i will come there one day, but with tanks and cannons". i was there. to be fair, at the time noone ever thought a war was ever going to happen. but then people i mentioned above came to power.

Superbian

Mozart wrote:

There seems to be confusion about what i meant about percentages. What Im talking about is the military occupation during the war. Its a well known fact that serb armies occupied areas beyond areas where serbs lived. This is also what a number of serb leaders during the war testified to, im not making this up (UN website).
As for serbs being evil, i said no such thing. I personally do believe that they were victims of miloseciv/karadzic/mladic/sese lj/babic propaganda who were opportunists who were clouded by their own political greed of wanting to be remembered as some sort of saviours. and they brought pain to their own people and others.
I never said anything about serbian economy nor anything about the beatifulness of serbia. Doesnt really contribute to what is discussed here really.
as for being the most open minded, well thats a matter of opinion. many former yugoslav republics do not see serbia favourly and to be fair, its with a good reason.
not sure what you were trying to achieve with the British leader comment. there are lots of comments by lots of people everwhere and all the time. depends which one we choose to concentrate on. surely people can get over one comment made 90 years go. surely. Im unaware of the comment so I cant comment on it, but I doubt you know the context the comment was made in.
As a matter of fact I was in Belgrade multiple times, before the war. As one military officer said after he was asked if he holidays in dalmatia: "i will come there one day, but with tanks and cannons". i was there. to be fair, at the time noone ever thought a war was ever going to happen. but then people i mentioned above came to power.

Recap Krajina region is Western and Eastern Slavonia. Combined they were 97% Serb. That is where the fighting took place. Ther was NO fighting in Central Slavonia. This is a fact! RS is the same thing tottaly Serb. Bosnia was 70% Serbian and that is where the fighting took place. Nothing happened where there were no Serbs. Serbs fought to free Serbs from Fascists. End of Story

Mozart

I dont remember srebrenica being 97% serb although it is now i suppose.
also at the time 30% of croatia is not entirely serb populated, and 70% of bosnia was not serb populated. Fighting took place in a lot more places than where serbs were and also. And as for serb population distribution, very few towns were 97% serb as u say. Of course there were some that were, however just becasue there is 1 serb in a town or a village doesnt mean the whole village belongs to serbia although thats the mentality that was used by glory seekers (karadzic, mladic etc) in the war.
fascist is propaganda used by milosevic to give reason to serbs in RS and RSK to rebel while the facts (as testified by certain serb leaders in hague multiple times) are that milosevic scared serbs in those regions as he needed a spark so as to have a reason to get yugoslav army involved.
Now we know that serbia only had concentration camps, so who was the fascist. oh and did i forget to mention srebrenica. very much fascist-like aint it?

Superbian