Europe leaves Romania out in Schengen cold

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/...

Europe left Bulgaria and Romania out in the cold Thursday, when Finland and the Netherlands blocked their entry into the passport-free Schengen travel area.

The Dutch and the Finns refused to let them in, at a meeting of EU interior ministers dogged by concerns about illegal migration, citing poor progress in the fight against corruption and organised crime.

"Two member states today made it impossible for us to make a decision on Schengen enlargement," Polish Interior Minister Jerzy Miller, whose country holds the EU's rotating presidency, lamented after the talks.

"This leads me to a rather sad conclusion regarding mutual trust among the member states," Miller added, saying Bulgaria and Romania were promised a place in Schengen when they joined the European Union in 2007.

"Today the promise has been broken," he said, adding that Romania and Bulgaria had made "huge progress."

But the Dutch and Finnish governments disagreed.

"What we wanted to avoid was to take a decision today that we would later regret," said Dutch Immigration Minister Gerd Leers.

"Imagine you have a door with eight of the best locks in the world. But before that door is standing someone who lets everybody in -- then you have a problem," he said.

The ministers did not vote, sending a decision to an EU summit in October, but the Dutch minister said his government was unlikely to change its mind. Schengen's enlargement requires unanimous consent.

Poland sought to convince EU peers to accept a two-step solution that would allow Romanian and Bulgarian air and sea borders to open by October 31, while a date on opening land borders would be put off to next year.

All nations backed the compromise except for the two opponents, diplomats said.

"We don't have complete confidence that these countries will be able to secure outer EU borders because of corruption, among other issues," said Finnish Interior Minister Paeivi Raesaenen.

Bulgarian Interior Minister Tsvetan Tsvetanov told national radio that Finland and the Netherlands "presented abstract arguments" against the bids and were "isolated compared to other EU members."

Schengen, an area stretching from Portugal to Poland, through which road, rail and even air travellers need only basic identity papers to move freely, has come under growing strain this year over fears about illegal migration.

Greece's struggle to police its porous border with Turkey, fears that the Arab revolutions could unleash a wave of boatpeople, and rising populism in some nations have sparked calls for a shake-up of the whole system.

Romania has accused the Dutch centre-right government of being held hostage to the far-right. The Dutch centre-right government rules with the backing of Geert Wilders' far-right Freedom Party (PVV). In Finland, the far-right True Finns made major gains in recent elections.

After the Dutch indicated their likely stance in advance of Thursday's talks, Romanian border authorities this week blocked Dutch trucks carrying tulips from the Netherlands -- officially over a bacteria scare.

Romanian daily Adevarul linked the move to the Schengen dispute, calling it the "war of the flowers." The trucks were finally allowed into Romania on Thursday.

The Hungarian leadership is very stupid...they've missed golden opportunities over the yrs to support the millions of Hungarians across the border. In 93 when the czechs and slovaks split their country Hungary should've reclaimed south slovakia. In 89 during the roumanian revolution Hungary should've stepped in and demanded Szekelyfold and all majority Magyar areas...or in 07 autonomy should've been a condition for roumania's EU entry. Even during the yugoslav war in the early 90s parts of Vajdasag (voivodina) should've been reclaimed. Now look at what Hungary's (friendly) neighbors do...create language laws and forbid autonomy...the dutch and finns are right about those countries, slovakia should be included in with them and serbia should never be let into the EU. Remember this is the EUROPEAN UNION....there's an old proverb " EUROPE ends at Brasso, do a little research and see if you understand the meaning. BTW Finns aren't Hungarian fino-ugric brethern...that theory was devised by the austrian oppressors to suppress Hungarian conciousness, the only commonality betwwen Magyar and Finn is the agglutinative language structure...

Szatmari wrote:

The Hungarian leadership is very stupid...they've missed golden opportunities over the yrs to support the millions of Hungarians across the border. In 93 when the czechs and slovaks split their country Hungary should've reclaimed south slovakia. In 89 during the roumanian revolution Hungary should've stepped in and demanded Szekelyfold and all majority Magyar areas...or in 07 autonomy should've been a condition for roumania's EU entry. Even during the yugoslav war in the early 90s parts of Vajdasag (voivodina) should've been reclaimed. Now look at what Hungary's (friendly) neighbors do...create language laws and forbid autonomy...the dutch and finns are right about those countries, slovakia should be included in with them and serbia should never be let into the EU. Remember this is the EUROPEAN UNION....there's an old proverb " EUROPE ends at Brasso, do a little research and see if you understand the meaning. BTW Finns aren't Hungarian fino-ugric brethern...that theory was devised by the austrian oppressors to suppress Hungarian conciousness, the only commonality betwwen Magyar and Finn is the agglutinative language structure...

This is very interesting. I think Hungarian military actions didn't happen because the Soviet administration of Hungary made sure that Hungary never had significant mobile military equipment. I know that starting at the 1989 Romania incident, Hungary tried to obtain military support from the Warsaw pact and the Soviet Union directly, but nobody was interested. So the anti-Hungarian international cooperation worked again. As a result, Hungary initiated the dissolution of the Warsaw pact and cut the "iron curtain". The Soviet Union was short sighted not to see its coming end, and generate renewed support for Russia in Europe by assisting the Hungarian liberation of the Szekler lands of Transylvania. By the time Hungary got the weapons and the support, Soviet influence was so weak, that it couldn't even "help" the later Serbia in its Kosovo war. So yes, I agree with you Szatmari, there was an opportunity, but the Soviet policies paralyzed Hungary technically, and so Hungary couldn't move fast enough to take advantage of the opportunity. What is even worse though is that already in 1989, the minds of Hungarians were poisoned with western propaganda and most Hungarians were rather craving western money than care about themselves under Romanian and Slavic occupation. This added to Hungary's paralysis. So the real solution seems to be to put away the 19th century nationalistic ideas and think regionally, like the kings of the Arpadian dynasty did. Their history review, the 13th century Gesta Hungarorum details how the 7 Hungarian tribes assigned lands to people, including the Russian units of Kiev that fought together with the Hungarians to secure the western city of Pressburg/Pozsony against the German of the Holy Roman Empire during the Hungarian conquest of central Europe. Romania and Slovakia know this, which is why they are now trying to "kill off" all Hungarians under their administrations as quickly as they can, starting with making language laws. After all this, today, the solution is a lot more complicated than in 1989 or 1992. The EU is the new Soviet Union (in the sense of Hungarian linguistic survival), and Hungary needs to work out a completely new strategy. Maybe, if regional unification is not possible without first killing off the Hungarian language, Hungary needs to rewise its economic trade practices with its neighbors, and offer unilateral mobility to its language speakers. Hungarian passports to Hungarians of the Ukraine and Serbia is a good start. Luckily, in the military sense, modern airlift technologies eliminated the advantages of mountains such as the Carpathians. As an extreme, Hungarians can regroup west of the Danube since Hungary is already like a city state, and flood the Tisza region, blocking traffic of anti-Hungarian nationalities.

This is very interesting. I think Hungarian military actions didn't happen because the Soviet administration of Hungary made sure that Hungary never had significant mobile military equipment. I know that starting at the 1989 Romania incident, Hungary tried to obtain military support from the Warsaw pact and the Soviet Union directly, but nobody was interested. So the anti-Hungarian international cooperation worked again. As a result, Hungary initiated the dissolution of the Warsaw pact and cut the "iron curtain". The Soviet Union was short sighted not to see its coming end, and generate renewed support for Russia in Europe by assisting the Hungarian liberation of the Szekler lands of Transylvania. By the time Hungary got the weapons and the support, Soviet influence was so weak, that it couldn't even "help" the later Serbia in its Kosovo war.

So yes, I agree with you Szatmari, there was an opportunity, but the Soviet policies paralyzed Hungary technically, and so Hungary couldn't move fast enough to take advantage of the opportunity. What is even worse though is that already in 1989, the minds of Hungarians were poisoned with western propaganda and most Hungarians were rather craving western money than care about themselves under Romanian and Slavic occupation. This added to Hungary's paralysis.

So the real solution seems to be to put away the 19th century nationalistic ideas and think regionally, like the kings of the Arpadian dynasty did. Their history review, the 13th century Gesta Hungarorum details how the 7 Hungarian tribes assigned lands to people, including even the Russian units of Kiev that fought together with the Hungarians to secure the western city of Pressburg/Pozsony against the German of the Holy Roman Empire during the Hungarian conquest of central Europe. Romania and Slovakia know this, which is why they are now trying to "kill off" all Hungarians under their administrations as quickly as they can, starting with making language laws.

After all this, today, the solution is a lot more complicated than in 1989 or 1992. The EU is the new Soviet Union (in the sense of Hungarian linguistic survival), and Hungary needs to work out a completely new strategy. Maybe, if regional unification is not possible without first killing off the Hungarian language, Hungary needs to rewise its economic trade practices with its neighbors, and offer unilateral mobility to its language speakers. Hungarian passports to Hungarians of the Ukraine and Serbia is a good start.

Luckily, in the military sense, modern airlift and satellite technologies eliminated the advantages of having mountains such as the Carpathians. So as an extreme, Hungarians can regroup west of the Danube considering that Hungary is already like a city state. And then Hungary can flood the Tisza region, blocking traffic of anti-Hungarian nationalities. This is not a good solution because this gives up all lands forever, but at least this cuts all economic and other ties with the oppressors of the Hungarian people.

"(Unius linguae uniusque moris regnum imbecille et fragile est)"
St. Stephen in a letter to his son St. Emeric, 1036 A.D..

"Make the strangers welcome in this land, let them keep their languages and customs, for weak and fragile is the realm which is based on a single language or on a single set of customs."

This was a big mistake....

btw....Hungary wouldn't of needed to use military intervention or help during those yrs. If the Hungarian gov't would have just taken advantage of the situations by claiming and supporting independence for the large Hungarian communities in those 3 countries, Nato and the UN would've supported their claims. What it boils down to was that Hungary's gov't didn't care about those communities... Hungary's gov't was run by a bunch of jews and ex-commies at the time who were only interested in their own well being and wealth. Russia had no interest in those situations...communism was dead. This is the reason Jobbik was created, because of those bastards...Magyarorszag Magyaroke...(Hungary for Hungarians)

Szatmari wrote:

"(Unius linguae uniusque moris regnum imbecille et fragile est)"
St. Stephen in a letter to his son St. Emeric, 1036 A.D..
"Make the strangers welcome in this land, let them keep their languages and customs, for weak and fragile is the realm which is based on a single language or on a single set of customs."
This was a big mistake....

Yes, I agree. Although I guess that king St. Stephen, a very professional politician and military leader, may have known, that even the most unified and monolythic "nation" can be broken apart by artificially creating differences within it. Modern psychological research shows that even as little as an empty label is enough for a new division. As an example, today's most united nation, the French, could be divided by affording an own country to France's Occitan language speakers, which is territorially the southern 50% of France. They have struggled to keep their language ever since the French revolution of 1789, up till today. Even the modern French assimilation policies could not stomp them out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitan_language

Szatmari wrote:

btw....Hungary wouldn't of needed to use military intervention or help during those yrs. If the Hungarian gov't would have just taken advantage of the situations by claiming and supporting independence for the large Hungarian communities in those 3 countries, Nato and the UN would've supported their claims. What it boils down to was that Hungary's gov't didn't care about those communities... Hungary's gov't was run by a bunch of jews and ex-commies at the time who were only interested in their own well being and wealth. Russia had no interest in those situations...communism was dead. This is the reason Jobbik was created, because of those bastards...Magyarorszag Magyaroke...(Hungary for Hungarians)

This explains the situation VERY well. Also, this explains why Hungary has a disproportionately high national debth compared to its neighbors. Looks like, that up until today, Hungary's leadership was in foreign hands, even with the so called souvereignty and all. If Hungary's current leadership is now truely Hungarian, then they have a formidable task, because the entire statehood of Hungary has now been made mostly irrelevant. This is because the previous governments put the citizens of Hungary into such national debth that they will never be able to repay. Now it comes clear why Hungary's relatively high debth is an international interest.

We need to stop fighting, these Western Euros are using Hungarians, Romanians and Slovaks, trying to keep us down by making us fight. It's time Hungarians told them to go to heck, leave them alone to build their economy. They are a nation in Europe and refuse to be so discriminated. Romania needs to tell the Western powers to go to hell, it is a European country, this is discrimination. Same with Slovakia.

Stop the racism, we should fight against the systematic oppression by these bully nations together and build a better future for our kids. Hungarians, Romanians and Slovaks have the brains, they need to unite.

"In 1848 the Magyars proclaimed the union of Transylvania with Hungary, promising the Romanians abolition of serdom in return for their support against Austria. The Romanians rejected the offer and instead rose against the Magyar national state. In the fighting that followed (1849) between the Hungarians and the Austro-Russian forces (supported by the Romanians and most of the Saxons), the Hungarian republic of Louis Kossuth was supressed."

Simge, I agree with you.

But by the other way i think this poeple seam be sad, they try to find in history reasons to make they fight, they systematic oppression.

... "However, in the compromise (Ausgleich) of 1867, which established the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, Transylvania became an integral part of Hungary, and the Romanians, having tasted equality, were once more subjected to Magyar domination. After World War I the Romanians of Transylvania proclaimed at a convention at Alba Iulia (1918) their union with Romania. Transylvania was then seized by Romania and was formally ceded by Hungary in the Treaty of Trianon (1920)." From The Columbia Encyclopedia.

Romanians always wanted to live in freedom...

roumanians had their freedom in their own homeland (wallachia and moldavia)....I take that back, they were under ottoman control until 1878. So those roumanians living in Transylvania had a choice, go back to regat where they came from, if they didn't like Magyar domination. That proclamation at Gyulafehervar (alba iulia) was a coup by a land grabbing traitorous minority population backed by france and britain. In reality this was not "spoils of war"....Hungary was already defeated in WW1, you roumanians didn't fight the Hungarians for Transylvania, this was theft plain and simple.

The percentage of Magyar population in the different areas based on census data of 1910:
- in Slovakia 30%
- in Transylvania 32%
- in Vojvodina (Serbia) 28%
- in Transcarpathia (Ukraine) 30%
- in Croatia 3.5%
- in Slovenia 1.6%
- in Burgenland (Austria) 9%
Source: New World Encyclopedia.

"For Hungarian pupils in the 1930s each school-day began with a prayer calling for the reversal of the treaty."
Very interesting. What do you call that? It seems pretty sad and unfair.

Szatmari wrote:

roumanians had their freedom in their own homeland (wallachia and moldavia)....I take that back, they were under ottoman control until 1878. So those roumanians living in Transylvania had a choice, go back to regat where they came from, if they didn't like Magyar domination. That proclamation at Gyulafehervar (alba iulia) was a coup by a land grabbing traitorous minority population backed by france and britain. In reality this was not "spoils of war"....Hungary was already defeated in WW1, you roumanians didn't fight the Hungarians for Transylvania, this was theft plain and simple.

Uh Austria just showed you at the UN council that you guys never made up more than 32% of the population and BTW you were under Austrian control and that is the one and only reason u were there. Without your masters in Austria who used you and then dumped you. You were exploited but you still cling to your old masters it's pathetic so have some pride

badboybaby wrote:

The percentage of Magyar population in the different areas based on census data of 1910:
- in Slovakia 30%
- in Transylvania 32%
- in Vojvodina (Serbia) 28%
- in Transcarpathia (Ukraine) 30%
- in Croatia 3.5%
- in Slovenia 1.6%
- in Burgenland (Austria) 9%
Source: New World Encyclopedia.

Of course this was shoved in their faces at the EU by Austria and they were a laughing stock. After that they went home with their tail between their legs because they got busy with this shit instead of focusing on their economy

badboybaby wrote:

"For Hungarian pupils in the 1930s each school-day began with a prayer calling for the reversal of the treaty."
Very interesting. What do you call that? It seems pretty sad and unfair.

It's pathetic man and the results show in the economy those guys grew up to build

The percentage of Magyar population in the different areas based on census data of 1910:
- in Slovakia 30%
- in Transylvania 32%
- in Vojvodina (Serbia) 28%
- in Transcarpathia (Ukraine) 30%
- in Croatia 3.5%
- in Slovenia 1.6%
- in Burgenland (Austria) 9%
Source: New World Encyclopedia.

and each one of those "newly formed or enlarged" countries received 100% of the territory...it pays to do research and be informed rather than regurgitate your state sponsored propaganda....Interesting that no plebicites were allowed except for the city of Sopron and its environs in BURGENLAND...and guess what? the population voted to remain with Hungary. So what do you think the vote would've been in the majority Magyar cities of Kolozsvar, Arad, Szatmar, Nagyvarad, Temesvar, Brasso etc....you know the roumanian copies, don't you? or the Magyar cities of Felvidek (the northern highlands, no called slovakia) Pozsony, Kassa, Rimaszombat, Komarom etc. or the cities of Transcarpathia, Munkacs, Ungvar...You roumanians don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to history or the crimes committed at trianon. Btw roumanian/turkish simge ( or whatever the hell you are) the austrians were never our masters we fought them on many occassions for independence, the last one in 1848..and would have beaten them if it weren't for russian intervention and vlach terrorism...you see the difference between a Hungarian and and roumanian is that we've always fought for our freedom and remained loyal to our allies, while you've done neither. There's not a more dishonorable country in all of Europe than Roumania....why do you think all of Europe views you as gypsies? think about it.

yes its true...one day god willing the crimes of trianon will be reversed...but I doubt you orthodox heathens can understand such things.