Iglesia Ni Cristo beliefs and practices

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ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1412
Jun 26, 2012
 
jyahna wrote:
<quoted text>
>EXISTS FROM ETERNITY TO ETERNITY
yeah, God is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and last... And Jesus is also the Alpha and Omega, the first and last... See? They both share titles elias.. Why indeed? There can't be 2 title bearers elias.. Jesus and God both have that title because Jesus is God.
Jyahna,

The fact that God exists from eternity to eternity is proof enough that he never died!!! For to believe in such while at the same time believing tha God died is a projection of conflicting thoughts and the height of absurdity!!!

That Christ is also called "Alpha and Omega" like the Father is indeed used by some theologians, especially the Trinitrians, as basis for their belief that Christ is also God!!! In subscribing to this line of reasoning, however, Trinitarians would have to explain why the Holy Spirit, which they believe to be a co-equal God of the Father and the Son in power and honor, is not called by such titles. There is no mention in the Scriptures that like Jesus Christ and the Father, the Holy Spirit is also "Alpha and Omega"!!!

"Alpha and Omega", the first and last letter of the Greek alphabet, signify "first and last". Such titles are used both of God and Jesus Christ, in distinct and dissimilar senses that they are called such!!!

The Lord God is "Alpha" because all things came from Him (1 Cor. 8:6)!!! He is "Omega" since He set the day of Judgment (Acts 17:31; 1 Cor. 15:28) or the "end of the age" (Matt. 24:3)!!!

On the other hand, Christ is "Alpha" because "he is the "first born of every creature" (Col. 1:15, New King James Version), for He was already "foreknown" or in the mind of God even "before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20, Douay-Confraternity Version)!!! He is "Omega" because it is through Him that God will judge the world on Judgment Day (II Cor. 5:10)!!!

Therefore, "Alpha and Omega" which is a title owned by both God and His son, Jesus Christ, when used for God and for Christ differ in meaning and in sense!!! To argue that Christ is God because He (Christ) holds such title is to offer a false argument and an erroneous form of reasoning!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam




ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1413
Jun 26, 2012
 
jyahna wrote:
<quoted text>
may i ask you then,
who is the:
KING OF KINGS
LORD OF LORDS
ALPHA AND OMEGA/FIRST AND LAST?
Jyahna,

That Christ is also called "Alpha and Omega," "Lord of Lords," and "King of Kings" like the Father is indeed used by some theologians, especially the Trinitrians, as basis for their belief that Christ is also God. In subscribing to this line of reasoning, however, Trinitarians would have to explain why the Holy Spirit, which they believe to be a co-equal God of the Father and the Son in power and honor, is not called by such titles. Moreover, if being called by the same title makes two or more persons share the same state of being, then Peter would qualify to be God in the same way as Christ is claimed to be God, for Peter has the same title "Cephas" or "stone" (John 1:35-42) as Christ (Acts 4:10-11). Not only that, this line of thinking would also make all Christians God for they too are called in the Bible as "living stones" (1 Peter 2:4-5).

Others might retort that Christ's being "stone" is different from that of Peter and other Christians. That is correct, and that is precisely the point why Christ could not be God just because He is called by the same titles as God--"Alpha and Omega," "Lord of Lords," and "King of Kings".

"Alpha and Omega", the first and last letter of the Greek alphabet, signify "first and last". Such titles are used both of God and Jesus Christ, in distinct and dissimilar senses that they are called such.

The Lord God is "Alpha" because all things came from Him (1 Cor. 8:6). He is "Omega" since He set the day of Judgment (Acts 17:31; 1 Cor. 15:28) or the "end of the age" (Matt. 24:3).

On the other hand, Christ is "Alpha" because "he is the "first born of every creature" (Col. 1:15, New King James Version), for He was already "foreknown" or in the mind of God even "before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20, Douay-Confraternity Version). He is "Omega" because it is through Him that God will judge the world on Judgment Day (II Cor. 5:10).

Why is Christ called "Lord of Lords" and "King of Kings"? The Bible explains that when the end comes, Christ will definitely "reign" as he will put an end to all rule, authority, and power:

"Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet." (1 Cor. 15:24-25, New King James Version)

To illustrate that Christ's Lordship and Kingship are subordinate to God and are thus unlike that of God who is the Father, the Bible continues, thus:

"For the Scripture says,'God put all things under his feet'. It is clear, of course, that the words 'all things' do not include God himself, who puts all things under Christ. But when all things have been placed under Christ's rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all." (1 Cor. 15:27-28, Today's English Version)

Therefore, in as much as the use of "Alpha and Omega," "Lord of Lords," and "King of Kings" for God and for Christ differ in meaning and in sense, to argue that Christ is God because He (Christ) holds such titles is to offer a false argument and an erroneous form of reasoning which logician call "fallacy of equivocation".

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1414
Jun 26, 2012
 
jyahna wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is the ONE LORD?
Who is the ONE GOD?
Who is the LORD GOD?
Who is the LORD, YOUR GOD?
Remember, st. Paul said that we have ONE GOD...AND WE HAVE ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
BUT, we have LORD GOD and LORD JESUS CHRIST.. There can't be 2 Lords because the bible said we have ONE LORD.
What then?
ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, according to Paul..
Therefore,
THE LORD, YOUR GOD
=
JESUS CHRIST, YOUR GOD
Jyahna,

God is Lord but He made Jesus Christ also as Lord:

"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." (Acts 2:36, NIV)

What now is the difference between the Lordship of God from the Lordship Of Christ??? The Lordship of God is inherent while the Lordship of Christ is given to Him by God, the Father!!! Christ received His Lordship from someone who is His Father!!! He does not have it inherently!!!

The one Lord being mentioned by Apostle Paul is the Lord Jesus Christ being the head of the Church, for there is only one head of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Christ:

"For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." (Eph. 5:23, NIV)

"And he is the head of the body, the church." (Col. 1:18, NIV)

What is the name of the Church??? Apostle Paul declared:

"Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." [Acts 20:28, Lamsa Translation}

While our Lord Jesus Christ is the head of the Church of Christ, the Lord God is the head of Christ:

"Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." (1 Cor. 8:6, NIV)

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam



Gerald

Makati, Philippines

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#1415
Jun 26, 2012
 
Mr. Elias BARADO.

If you really believe the Bible, you will believe that the prophecy at Isaiah 43:5,6 is not related in anyway to your FALSE RELIGION. Look at the context Mr. Elias BARADO. When you read the Bible, you will understand the true meaning of the text by reading the surounding text. Don't just accept the doctrines and teachings from your founder that is being teached by your church ministers.

According to the Bible at Isaiah 43:1,3,14,22,28, to whom will this prophecy be fulfilled? It is clear from the said surrounding texts of Isaiah 43:5,6 it will be fulfilled on ancient Israel when they return to their homeland to rebuild Jerusalem.

You are refuting Isaiah 11:11, which shows the countries where the scattered Isrealites will be coming from, to return to their homeland? This propehcy is from God which he foretold regarding His nation Israel.

Did this prophecy failed or it was fulfilled by Jehovah God? If you deny that this procphecy did not happen, then you are saying that Jehovah the God of Israel is a liar.

This prophecy have really been fulfilled by Jehovah God. The proofs from the writing of Jesus' apostles shows it. And even Jesus himself proved it from his words. In the Christian Greek Scriptures you can read that there's a Jerusalem temple where the Israelites are worshiping and even Jesus himself went to Jerusalem temple. If Isaiah's propehcy have not been fulfilled on the returning Israelites to their homeland to rebuild Jerusalem, there won't be a Jerualem temple where Jesus and the other Israelites can go to give their offerings and festives and worship.

So you see Mr. Elias BARADO, the Bible itself proves it.

Think Mr. Elias BARADO! To prove your claim that Philippines is the FAR EAST, the founder of your religion needs to use "EUROPE" as the GEOGRAPHICAL CENTER. Then your founder said from Europe you can trace that Philippines is at the EASTERN part of the world.

But the problem is Mr. Elias BARADO, instead of using only the Bible, your founder used OUTSIDE-THE-BIBLE REFERENCES to prove his false claims.

Does the Bible mention a GEOGRAPHICAL CENTER? Absolutely! The Bible clearly proves that Jerusalem is the GEOGRAPHICAL CENTER NOT EUROPE. And from Jerusalem you can trace all the EASTERN countries from Jerusalem. The Bible also proves based on the prophecy that ancient Israelites came from NORTH and EAST, SOUTH and WEST.

You can't deny these facts from the Bible Mr. Elias BARADO.

You have a choice, Mr. Elias BARADO, do you want to be FAITHFULL in what the Bible really teach?

Or do you prefer to be FAITHFOOLED AND FAITHFAILED by the FALSE TEACHINGS of your FALSE RELIGION which is EGGLESIA NI MANALO?

It's your choice Mr. Elias BARADO.
ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1416
Jun 26, 2012
 
jyahna wrote:
<quoted text>
what Elias?
OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW NOTHING OF OUR RELIGION ELIAS!
KAYA WALA KANG KARAPATANG SIRAAN ANG IGLESYA KATOLIKA DAHIL WALA KANG ALAM! YAN BA ANG MGA KASINUNGALINGANG SINASABI SA INYO TUNGKOL SA IGLESYA KATOLIKA???
YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE A BOOK WITHOUT OPENING IT AND UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING BEHIND ITS TEXTS ELIAS.
SUCH AS YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITHOUT KNOWING ITS REAL TEACHINGS!
The Popes DO N0T BLASPHEME.
ALL of US, as God's creations, consider ourselves as brothers and sisters elias.
Therefore, the Pope, priests...as the Church leaders..we call them FATHER as a SIGN OF RESPECT.
IT DOESN'T MEAN ''FATHER'' as ''GOD.''
BUT IT MEANS ''FATHER'' like your ''PARENT''
CHURCH LEADERS ARE ''PARENTS'' FOR US ELIAS.
NOT ''GOD''!
I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!
THEY ARE OUR SPIRITUAL 2ND PARENTS.
Why Elias? DON'T YOU HAVE A FATHER FOR YOU N0T TO KNOW WHAT ''FATHER'' MEANS? IF YOU HAVE A FATHER,WHAT DO YOU CALL HIM THEN?''BROTHER''?
Jyahna,

I am using Catholics books as reference!!! You cannot deny these facts!!! According to the Catholic Church, how high a position does Mary occupy, prompting Rev. James T. O'Connor to call the church of which he is an ordained priest as "The Church of the Mothe rof God" or "The Church of Mary"?

"God has empowered her and commissioned her to fill with saints the empty thrones from which the apostate angels fell by pride. The will of the Most High, Who exalts the humble, is that heaven, earth and hell bend, with good will or bad will, to the commandments of the humble Mary, whom He has made sovereign of heaven and earth,..."

(Reference: De Montfort, St. Louis Grignion, True Devotion To The Blessed Virgin Mary, pp. 18-19. New York: The Montfort Fathers, 1941.)

Roman Catholic authorities entertain the notion that God made Mary the sovereign of heaven and earth to the extent that all in heaven, earth, and even hell bend to the commandments of the "humble Mary."

Do Catholic mentors include God among those under the sovereignity of the "humble Mary"?

"Mary, being altogether transformed into God by grace and by the glory which transforms all the saints into Him ... that in heaven and on earth everything, even God Himself, is subject to the Blssed Virgin,... "

Reference:(De Montfort, St. Louis Grignion, True Devotion To The Blessed Virgin Mary, p. 17. New York: The Montfort Fathers, 1941.)

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1417
Jun 26, 2012
 
Gerald wrote:
Mr. Elias BARADO.
If you really believe the Bible, you will believe that the prophecy at Isaiah 43:5,6 is not related in anyway to your FALSE RELIGION. Look at the context Mr. Elias BARADO. When you read the Bible, you will understand the true meaning of the text by reading the surounding text.
Gerald,

That is exactly what I am doing!!! Read Isaiah 43:7 for it says God's children will be called with the name He formed and created for His glory:

" ... everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." (Isaiah 43:7, NIV)

And what is that name??? The name of Christ:

"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11, NIV)

The name Christ as well as Christ's Church are owned and sanctioned by God!!! Why??? Christ who is the Vine with branches are God's planting:

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5, NIV)

的 am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser." (John 15:1)

And here's the true name of God's planting or those who will be called with the name He created and formed for His glory as mentioned by the Prophet Isaiah (verse 43:7):

"Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." [Acts 20:28, Lamsa Translation}

Christ as the Vine (Head) with branches (Church)constitute God's children or planting!!! The Iglesia Ni Cristo is the result of God's execution of his plan to have Him glorified through Christ by calling people into the fold or Church of Christ!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Gerald

Asia/Pacific Region

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#1418
Jun 26, 2012
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Gerald,
That is exactly what I am doing!!! Read Isaiah 43:7 for it says God's children will be called with the name He formed and created for His glory:
" ... everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." (Isaiah 43:7, NIV)
And what is that name??? The name of Christ:
"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11, NIV)
The name Christ as well as Christ's Church are owned and sanctioned by God!!! Why??? Christ who is the Vine with branches are God's planting:
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5, NIV)
的 am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser." (John 15:1)
And here's the true name of God's planting or those who will be called with the name He created and formed for His glory as mentioned by the Prophet Isaiah (verse 43:7):
"Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." [Acts 20:28, Lamsa Translation}
Christ as the Vine (Head) with branches (Church)constitute God's children or planting!!! The Iglesia Ni Cristo is the result of God's execution of his plan to have Him glorified through Christ by calling people into the fold or Church of Christ!!!
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Mr. Elias BARADO.

As I have said, in order for you to really understand the meaning of the scriptural text, you need to consider the context or surrounding text in the subject text.

Don't base your interpretation on what your founder and ministers said. Look at the surrounding text. You are being FOOLED by your FALSE RELIGION.

Now, what name did he said at Isaiah 43:7?

You even copied and paste it, and you didn't understood what you have read?

Who's name, is it Jesus? Wrong application it's not the name of Jesus Christ! Read Isaiah 43:7 again.

"EVERYONE WHO IS CALLED BY MY NAME, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." IT'S GOD'S NAME NOT JESUS CHRIST!!!

Obviousely your founder and ministers, twisted the meaning of this text.

So according to the context or surrounding text of Isaiah 43:7, what name would be used, "WHICH WILL BE CALLED BY GOD'S NAME"?

Read Isaiah 43:10-13, Mr. Elias BARADO.

You have been FOOLED BY YOUR FOUNDER AND MINISTERS. Study the Bible, understand the real meaning of its teachings, not based on your founder and ministers interpretation but from the surrounding text itself.
ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1419
Jun 27, 2012
 
Gerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Elias BARADO.
As I have said, in order for you to really understand the meaning of the scriptural text, you need to consider the context or surrounding text in the subject text.
Don't base your interpretation on what your founder and ministers said. Look at the surrounding text. You are being FOOLED by your FALSE RELIGION.
Now, what name did he said at Isaiah 43:7?
You even copied and paste it, and you didn't understood what you have read?
Who's name, is it Jesus? Wrong application it's not the name of Jesus Christ! Read Isaiah 43:7 again.
"EVERYONE WHO IS CALLED BY MY NAME, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." IT'S GOD'S NAME NOT JESUS CHRIST!!!
Obviousely your founder and ministers, twisted the meaning of this text.
So according to the context or surrounding text of Isaiah 43:7, what name would be used, "WHICH WILL BE CALLED BY GOD'S NAME"?
Read Isaiah 43:10-13, Mr. Elias BARADO.
You have been FOOLED BY YOUR FOUNDER AND MINISTERS. Study the Bible, understand the real meaning of its teachings, not based on your founder and ministers interpretation but from the surrounding text itself.
Gerald,

You really cannot understand English!!! Let me post again the verse of Isaiah 43:7:

" ... everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." (Isaiah 43:7, NIV)

Take not that the "my name" is "created by God for His glory" and the said " was formed and made by God"!!! Therefore, it is not the inherent name of God but a "created name"!!!

And what is that name which God created??? The name of Christ as proven by the Bible:

"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11, NIV)

The name Christ as well as Christ's Church are owned and sanctioned by God!!! Why??? Christ who is the Vine with branches are God's planting:

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5, NIV)

的 am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser." (John 15:1)

And here's the true name of God's planting or those who will be called with the name He created and formed for His glory as mentioned by the Prophet Isaiah (verse 43:7):

"Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." [Acts 20:28, Lamsa Translation}

Christ as the Vine (Head) with branches (Church)constitute God's children or planting!!! The Iglesia Ni Cristo is the result of God's execution of his plan to have Him glorified through Christ by calling people into the fold or Church of Christ!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Gerald

Makati, Philippines

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#1420
Jun 27, 2012
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Gerald,
You really cannot understand English!!! Let me post again the verse of Isaiah 43:7:
" ... everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." (Isaiah 43:7, NIV)
Take not that the "my name" is "created by God for His glory" and the said " was formed and made by God"!!! Therefore, it is not the inherent name of God but a "created name"!!!
And what is that name which God created??? The name of Christ as proven by the Bible:
"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11, NIV)
The name Christ as well as Christ's Church are owned and sanctioned by God!!! Why??? Christ who is the Vine with branches are God's planting:
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5, NIV)
的 am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser." (John 15:1)
And here's the true name of God's planting or those who will be called with the name He created and formed for His glory as mentioned by the Prophet Isaiah (verse 43:7):
"Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." [Acts 20:28, Lamsa Translation}
Christ as the Vine (Head) with branches (Church)constitute God's children or planting!!! The Iglesia Ni Cristo is the result of God's execution of his plan to have Him glorified through Christ by calling people into the fold or Church of Christ!!!
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Hahaha... Mr. Elias BARADO.

You are the one who don't want to understand ENGLISH!!! You are really a STUPID FOOLD!!! Hahaha...

You are really mixed up. Hahaha... Who is speaking at Isaiah 43:7?

Answer!!! What is the name of the God who is speaking in this scriptures? Answer!!! Hahaha...

And according to the surrounding text Isaiah 43:10-13 what is that name? Answer!!!

Hahaha... That is right in front of your nose STUPID! You still insist what your faounder and ministers taught you. Hahaha...
Gerald

Makati, Philippines

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#1421
Jun 27, 2012
 
Mr Elias BARADO.

You are the one who really doesn't know how to comprehend and understand English language Mr. Elias BARADO. Hahaha...
Are you not ashamed of your self Mr. Elias BARADO? You are in a location where your every day language is English language but yet this simple scripture you were not able to comprehend. Hahaha...

If it's not the name of God that is not specified in Isaiah 43:7, why did God said "called by my name"?

Is Christ also a name of God for you Mr. Elias BARADO? Hahaha...

You read it wrong, because of your founders twisted reading you made a wrong conclusion in Isaiah 43:7.

Said scripture doesn't say "everyone called by the name I created" but instead "everyone who is called by my name"!
This scriptures is similar with Daniel 9:19 which says "for your own name has been called upon your city and upon your people." This is also in accordance with Acts 15:14 "God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name."

The phrase "whom I created for my glory", is not related to a name but to the one created, formed, and created by God that was mentioned in verse 21, which is "the people whom I have formed for myself, that they should recount the praise of me.". This is God's ancient nation Israel. And at Isaiah 49:3, it is said "O Israel, you the one in whom I shall show my beauty". The status of ancient Israel was created, made or formed by God based on Isaiah 43:15 which says "I am Jehovah YOUR Holy One, the Creator of Israel, YOUR King."; Isaiah 44:2, 21 which says "2This is what Jehovah has said, your Maker and your Former, who kept helping you even from the belly,船o not be afraid, O my servant Jacob, and you, Jesh&#8242;u&#8231;run , whom I have chosen. 21 Remember these things, O Jacob, and you, O Israel, because you are my servant. I have formed you. You are a servant belonging to me. O Israel, you will not be forgotten on my part."; Isaiah 45:11 which says "This is what Jehovah has said, the Holy One of Israel and the Former of him:鄭sk me even about the things that are coming concerning my sons; and concerning the activity of my hands YOU people should command me."

So you see Mr. Elias BARADO, all the surrounding scriptural text, proves that it has nothing to do with your FOUNDERS FALSE CLAIM.

Again, are you FAITHFULL in what the Bible teach?
Or do you still choose to be FAITHFOOLED and FAITHFAILED by your FALSE RELIGION which is EGGLESIA NI MANALO?

Since: Jun 12

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#1422
Jun 27, 2012
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Jyahna,
That Christ is also called "Alpha and Omega," "Lord of Lords," and "King of Kings" like the Father is indeed used by some theologians, especially the Trinitrians, as basis for their belief that Christ is also God. In subscribing to this line of reasoning, however, Trinitarians would have to explain why the Holy Spirit, which they believe to be a co-equal God of the Father and the Son in power and honor, is not called by such titles. Moreover, if being called by the same title makes two or more persons share the same state of being, then Peter would qualify to be God in the same way as Christ is claimed to be God, for Peter has the same title "Cephas" or "stone" (John 1:35-42) as Christ (Acts 4:10-11). Not only that, this line of thinking would also make all Christians God for they too are called in the Bible as "living stones" (1 Peter 2:4-5).
Others might retort that Christ's being "stone" is different from that of Peter and other Christians. That is correct, and that is precisely the point why Christ could not be God just because He is called by the same titles as God--"Alpha and Omega," "Lord of Lords," and "King of Kings".
"Alpha and Omega", the first and last letter of the Greek alphabet, signify "first and last". Such titles are used both of God and Jesus Christ, in distinct and dissimilar senses that they are called such.
The Lord God is "Alpha" because all things came from Him (1 Cor. 8:6). He is "Omega" since He set the day of Judgment (Acts 17:31; 1 Cor. 15:28) or the "end of the age" (Matt. 24:3).
On the other hand, Christ is "Alpha" because "he is the "first born of every creature" (Col. 1:15, New King James Version), for He was already "foreknown" or in the mind of God even "before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20, Douay-Confraternity Version). He is "Omega" because it is through Him that God will judge the world on Judgment Day (II Cor. 5:10).
Why is Christ called "Lord of Lords" and "King of Kings"? The Bible explains that when the end comes, Christ will definitely "reign" as he will put an end to all rule, authority, and power:
"Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet." (1 Cor. 15:24-25, New King James Version)

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
READ IT WELL ELIAS
God and Jesus SHARES TITLES BECAUSE THEY ARE ONE (ECHAD remember).
While the Holy Spirit became part of the trinity for IT IS SAID IN THE BIBLE THAT GOD,JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE
Now,about the stones thing, READ IT WELL ELIAS.
IT IS CLEARLY SAID THAT,
Christ is the CORNERSTONE,
Peter is the ROCK
and
for Christians, they should be LIKE LIVING STONES.
Therefore, people and Peter CAN'T BE ASSUMED GOD BECAUSE THEY ARE STONES,
NOT A CORNERSTONE
Refresh your English subject Elias.
Again,there can't be 2 king of kings,lord of lords and alpha and omega..you already quoted it..
There's only ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST..
If there is ONE LORD, which is Jesus Christ, then GOD CAN'T BE THE LORD. Because there is ONE Lord,isn't it? But then, God is also Lord ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE.
So,why is it then?
Because THEY ARE ONE (echad).
Sorry Elias,you can't fool us with your lack of bible comprehension. I already gave you Deut. 6:4 in HEBREW itself. Why still stick to the English translation.
Remember, the Bible is originally written in Hebrew and Greek elias

Since: Jun 12

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#1423
Jun 27, 2012
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Jyahna,
I am using Catholics books as reference!!! You cannot deny these facts!!! According to the Catholic Church, how high a position does Mary occupy, prompting Rev. James T. O'Connor to call the church of which he is an ordained priest as "The Church of the Mothe rof God" or "The Church of Mary"?
"God has empowered her and commissioned her to fill with saints the empty thrones from which the apostate angels fell by pride. The will of the Most High, Who exalts the humble, is that heaven, earth and hell bend, with good will or bad will, to the commandments of the humble Mary, whom He has made sovereign of heaven and earth,..."
(Reference: De Montfort, St. Louis Grignion, True Devotion To The Blessed Virgin Mary, pp. 18-19. New York: The Montfort Fathers, 1941.)
Roman Catholic authorities entertain the notion that God made Mary the sovereign of heaven and earth to the extent that all in heaven, earth, and even hell bend to the commandments of the "humble Mary."
Do Catholic mentors include God among those under the sovereignity of the "humble Mary"?
"Mary, being altogether transformed into God by grace and by the glory which transforms all the saints into Him ... that in heaven and on earth everything, even God Himself, is subject to the Blssed Virgin,... "
Reference:(De Montfort, St. Louis Grignion, True Devotion To The Blessed Virgin Mary, p. 17. New York: The Montfort Fathers, 1941.)
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
i understood what those means elias.

BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT YOU THINK.

You won't understand that well if you won't understand what Catholicism really is.

I REPEAT,

MARY IS NOT GOD.
That's certain.

It is useless explaining to you if you won't open your mind and heart about Catholicism.

I've done my part elias..
I joined inc's pagsamba every thursday and sunday here..i even joined the choir in their practice one tuesday night..i joined your cws..i talked to the members..i talked to the ministers..just hoping to understand you all.

If you want to properly know how to debate with a Catholic, why not try to know our teachings also Elias..so you won't be falsely led by any catholic texts which you obviously can't understand..

I'm not saying that you must do those things to bait you to be a Catholic.

I respect your being an inc but please do respect our teachings also.

Actually, i don't want to reply to you anymore because i really got angry with your invented Catholic teachings. I consider that as defamation you know. But i can't just blame you Elias. Because i also heard those things from a minister before.

But then, please do try to know what Catholicism is.. I just want you to have even just a glimpse of Catholicism because again, you actually know nothing..even just a single bit...about us..

But this is certain elias,
>Mary is NOT God
>we DON'T worship statues..anyway,try to read the bible,.you will see that God ordered His temple be built with statues.
>and for the other teachings we have,they are also biblical.

Since: Jun 12

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#1424
Jun 27, 2012
 
And anyway ELIAS,
May i also remind you that some of our teachings can't be just found in the english translation..or any translation in that matter.

Some of our teachings are in the original ancient hebrew and greek texts..the translators can't find a way to translate some..

So,if you want to have a glimpse of Catholicism, try knowing also the ancient scripts Elias.
Filmalay

Salinas, CA

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#1425
Jun 27, 2012
 
The bible is written by men, men juggled the words from the bilble to manipulate men, and up to the extent that some men will say that they are the only ones who will be saved, and in return, by hearing all these promises, men will give money and worse their lives to protect their church. A cult should not have a place at all in the Philippines for this is a drag to the advancement of the poor people. They're being exploited by the cult leaders.
ELIAS IBARRA

Yigo, Guam

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#1426
Jun 28, 2012
 
Gerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Hahaha... Mr. Elias BARADO.
You are the one who don't want to understand ENGLISH!!! You are really a STUPID FOOLD!!! Hahaha...
You are really mixed up. Hahaha... Who is speaking at Isaiah 43:7?
Answer!!! What is the name of the God who is speaking in this scriptures? Answer!!! Hahaha...
And according to the surrounding text Isaiah 43:10-13 what is that name? Answer!!!
Hahaha... That is right in front of your nose STUPID! You still insist what your faounder and ministers taught you. Hahaha...
Gerald,

Jehovah is not the name of the God of Israel!!! Jehovah has no connection to Israel!!! That is your own god!!! Do you want proofs??? It will come once I am no longer busy!!!

Real Elias Ibarra
Guam

Since: Jun 12

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#1427
Jun 28, 2012
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Jyahna,
What is the name of the Church??? Apostle Paul declared:
"Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." [Acts 20:28, Lamsa Translation}
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Acts 20:28
Greek
''thn EKKLHSIAN TOU THEOU hn periepoihsato dia tou aiuatos tou idiou''

EKKLHSIA=ASSEMBLY
THEOU=GOD

It is actually ''ASSEMBLY OF GOD'' Elias..not church of Christ..

Why did they change it to church of Christ then?

Because,if translated to english, it might denote God as purchasing the assembly with His own blood..but God is said to be a spirit..and can't have blood..so they made it as Christ not God. They changed it elias.

But originally,if we will base it to the ORIGINAL GREEK TRANSLATION, it is actually ASSEMBLY OF GOD.

Supposedly, there should be no 'CHURCH' word in the bible.''EKKLESIA'' was mistranslated...it is ''assembly.''

i already told you before that my teacher said ''church of Christ'' in the bible means ''a group of people who believes in Christ''..

..and NOT an actual NAME of a 'CHURCH'

Since: Jun 12

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#1428
Jun 28, 2012
 
Elias,

you already mentioned about Catholic's use of statues..

Which according to you was worshipped by Catholics..

..which i believe was taught to you by the ministers.

Isn't that a proof of your business church's lies yet, elias?

I am a Catholic..and i testify that Catholics DON'T WORSHIP STATUES.

Now, i know what 'hypocrisy of men' really means.

They lead you in the wrong way elias..to the point of telling lies about other religions so that you'll stick to their business church.

Well, only those Catholics who hasn't fully understood Catholicism were tempted to join inc..

Business speaking, your leaders did a good salestalk isn't it?
''Be a member of our church and you'll be saved!''

..tempting indeed..

..especially for those who are really eager to be saved..

But..BE SMART!

What kind of ''God's people'' are those who SPEAKS ILL of other religions?

What kind of ''God's people'' are those who tries to FIND FAULTS of other religions?

What kind of ''God's people'' are those who TELLS LIES about other religions?

What kind of ''God's people'' are those trying to DESTROY THE REPUTATION of other religions?

What kind of ''God's people'' are those telling their members to 'SEE THE 'FAULTS'' of others?

It that what God taught us?

INC people don't know how to love each and everyone of God's creations..may it be good or bad..they only know how to destroy others and love themselves..

Since: Apr 12

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#1429
Jun 29, 2012
 
Filmalay wrote:
The bible is written by men, men juggled the words from the bilble to manipulate men, and up to the extent that some men will say that they are the only ones who will be saved, and in return, by hearing all these promises, men will give money and worse their lives to protect their church. A cult should not have a place at all in the Philippines for this is a drag to the advancement of the poor people. They're being exploited by the cult leaders.
thats right man people who believe with Manalo were suffering a lot financially and spiritually. They live like robots specially during elections.
Gerald

Makati, Philippines

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#1430
Jun 29, 2012
 
ELIAS IBARRA wrote:
<quoted text>
Gerald,
Jehovah is not the name of the God of Israel!!! Jehovah has no connection to Israel!!! That is your own god!!! Do you want proofs??? It will come once I am no longer busy!!!
Real Elias Ibarra
Guam
Mr. Elias BARADO.

Don't side step and make alibies again.

Even if you do your side stepping and bringing in another subject, it will back fire on you again. Hahaha... If you bring the subject about the name of Jehovah God, I will prove also in this thread that even your publication PASUGO used Jehovah as God's name. Wala ka lusot sa akin Mr. Elias BARADO.

Now, back to the earlier subject in Isaiah 43:7.

If it's not the name of God that is not specified in Isaiah 43:7, why did God said "called by my name"?

Who is speaking in Isaiah 43:7? It's clearly Jehovah God.

If you insists that it's about Chirst, is Christ also a name of God for you Mr. Elias BARADO? Hahaha...

Did the scripture said "everyone called by the name I created"? Clearly not, instead "everyone who is called by my name"!

And all the surrounding text shows that this name pertains to ancient Israel.

You can't refute these proofs from the Bible Mr. Elias BARADO.
It is not in any way related to your BUGOK FALSE RELIGION which is EGGLESIA NI MANALO.

You should change your FALSE RELIGION'S NAME. It should be EGGLESIA NI NATALO. Why? Because from all your reasonings and misapplication and twistings of the scriptures you mentioned, and also the two challenges that I made which you loose, IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE A LOOSER. Hahaha...

YOU ARE INDEED EGGLESIA NI NATALO. Hahaha...

Since: Mar 11

United States

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#1431
Jun 29, 2012
 
Elias himself said Jehovah is one of the names for God. Now he's changed his mind?

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