How have Baltic women become commodities for purchase?

Where did this mail-order bride phenomenon come from?
When one googles "Baltic women," the three top hits are 1. "Russian women girls Russian women Russian bride single Personals" 2. "Single Russian and Baltic women seeking marriage and dating" and 3. "Latvian Pearls - Russian Women seeking men for marriage." But when one googles "Canadian women" the top three hits are 1. "Celebrating women's achievements," 2. "Welcome to the Canadian Women's Foundation" and 3. "Canadian women deserve praise for gold." Clearly, in google's cyber world, Baltic women have been framed as commodities to be purchased at will. Any thoughts on this phenomenon?

Curious Lithuanian Female wrote:

Where did this mail-order bride phenomenon come from? When one googles "Baltic women," the three top hits are 1. "Russian women girls Russian women Russian bride single Personals" 2. "Single Russian and Baltic women seeking marriage and dating" and 3. "Latvian Pearls - Russian Women seeking men for marriage." But when one googles "Canadian women" the top three hits are 1. "Celebrating women's achievements," 2. "Welcome to the Canadian Women's Foundation" and 3. "Canadian women deserve praise for gold." Clearly, in google's cyber world, Baltic women have been framed as commodities to be purchased at will. Any thoughts on this phenomenon?

Your question is based on several erroneous assumptions:

1. First, there is indeed a real MOB culture that stems from western men seeking family-oriented eastern European women who, unlike many western women, still have a desire for a traditional family life. The market is driven by western men disheartened by a feminized western culture that demeans men as the head of the household and a traditional family structure. It has nothing to do with "women being purchased at will."

2. Second, the MOB business centers around slavic women primarily from Russia and the Ukraine, with a few secondary countries such as Bulgaria. It has nothing to do with Baltic women. You will notice that all these sites actually direct you to slavic women (usually from Russia or the Ukraine).

3. There is a large slavic sub-culture in all three of the Baltic countries as the result of decades of "Russification" by the Soviet Union in an attempt to colonize the Baltic countries with Russians. Many of these Russians do not even speak the language in these three countries and are not even citizens. If you want to watch a great movie about the Soviet occupation and this Russification process, watch "The Singing Revolution."

4. The native women in the Baltic countries have no need to marry foreigners because the average income in those countries is twice what it is in Russian or the Ukraine. There is no dire economic need. Many of the so-called Lithuanian escorts are actually the Russians described above -- who do not even speak Lithuanian and therefore have less economic opportunity in Lithuania.

List of average incomes:

http://www.success-and-culture.net/articles/p...

5. Many of these sites involve financial scams and women who do not even exist. If you want to do some research from an expert who has distilled much of this information, see this site:

http://agencyscams.com/Newbie.html

Interesting hypothes...

1. Doesn't the "purchasing power" of the men paying for an MOB from the Baltics inform the "reclaiming" of masculinity that you purport to be lacking in North-America? Are power relations not at play here and does the act of paying for a bride not tip the proverbial scale in a male-dominated direction (no pun intended)? Why should the man be the "head" of the household? What about mutual respect, gender equality (in terms of rights), partnership?

2. How do you know that the women advertised on these sites are indeed Slavic? What criteria are you using to categorize these women as such?

3. I've seen the film.... it was very political in nature and was 100% an "ethnonational" favoritism project. It seems to neglect the other 2 Baltic countries (who were as vastly involved as Estonia) entirely.

4. GDP per capita is rising in Baltics but still does not compare with the rest of Europe... see OECD stats for more details.

Lastly... many of the names of women that have been trafficked from Lithuania to the UK and other part of Europe have spoken to the press have Lithuanian names (there is a distinction from Slavic names)... though trafficking is not the same as MOB, the women's motive is the same: get out of poverty.... any thoughts?

Also... based on some of the posts on Topix Lithuania, men are frequently jilted by these MOBs once the woman has procured her "green-card." So, what gives you (or anyone else for that matter) the impression that these women are any more or less "family-oriented" than North-American women? Could it be the assumption that since a man has paid for the woman, she will be more compliant and easily dominated? Does the MOB behold a "passive mystique?"

why would a woman from any of the 3 baltic states need to be a mob? their free to travel into europe and find a job or a man. plus the economies they come from are more modern and developed then some of the x russian states that mobs come from

from ireland: Why indeed? But it is happening and increasing in numbers, which is why I have posted my question. Human trafficking from the Baltics is also on the rise. There is a task force against trafficking in the Baltic (see http://www.cbss.org/Civil-Security-and-the-Hu... ). The protection project as well: http://www.protectionproject.org/commentary/b...

Or read multiple press releases addressing the issue: http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/2286...

Despite some wonderful developments in the Baltic since joining the EU, there is still much disparity:

GDP per capita (2006) comparison
Ireland:$34,200
Lithuania:$13,200
Estonia:$16,100
Latvia:$12,600

Also, why would Baltic women be advertised as MOB so profusely if there wasn't a demand? Look just above our comment thread as a case and point: Single Baltic Lady - Sexy women from Baltic countries are looking for true love and www.Single-Baltic-Lady.com
Lithuanian Women - For serious relationship only. Join now (it's free). Granted they are advertised as dating sites, but they are targeting men (western men in all likeliness).

Thoughts? Opinions?

from ireland: you may be interested in the following article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_i...

...my attempt to debunk the "equality in the EU" myth...

Inquisitivaite wrote:

Also, why would Baltic women be advertised as MOB so profusely if there wasn't a demand? Look just above our comment thread as a case and point: Single Baltic Lady - Sexy women from Baltic countries are looking for true love and www.Single-Baltic-Lady.com

Lithuanian Women - For serious relationship only. Join now (it's free). Granted they are advertised as dating sites, but they are targeting men (western men in all likeliness).
Thoughts? Opinions?

Why should anyone provide their thoughts or opinions, when you consistently ignore what people say when they provide you with the facts.

1. Of course, there is a demand. There is always a demand for beautiful, well educated women. But that does not mean that there is a market. THERE IS NO MARKET FROM THE BALTICS!

I provided the link to the web site that debunks this idea. You will see www.Single-Baltic-Lady.com listed as a scam site. There are no Baltic MOB women. It is a scam site set up to take money from men. Why are you wasting our time, if you are unwilling to do your own research?

Many other sites list Baltic women, but then steer you towards slavic women from Russia and the Ukraine. All you have to do is visit the sites to see for yourself. And most of these sites are scam sites. There are only a handful of legitimate MOB sites and none of them concentrate on Baltic women. Here is the list:

http://agencyscams.com/Goldlist.html

2. What does sex trafficing have to do with the MOB business. It is common knowledge that women are lured from lower income countries to higher income countries with the promise of work and then forced into prostitution. No one denies this fact. What does this have to do with the MOB business?

Inquisitivaite wrote:

Interesting hypothes...
2. How do you know that the women advertised on these sites are indeed Slavic? What criteria are you using to categorize these women as such?

Because the women are mostly from Russia, Ukraine, and a few other slavic countries. I am not sure why this even needs explaining. Even when web sites identify Baltic women, 99% of the women are from slavic countries.

Inquisitivaite wrote:

Interesting hypothes...
3. I've seen the film.... it was very political in nature and was 100% an "ethnonational" favoritism project. It seems to neglect the other 2 Baltic countries (who were as vastly involved as Estonia) entirely.

I agree with you on this point. Although I have no problem with the Latvian-centric nature of the film, it did leave out some very important facts, especially regarding the fact that Lithuania was the first of the Soviet countries to declare independence, which made it vastly easier for other countries, including Latvia, to do the same. But it is a great starter film for anyone seeking to understand life under Soviet rule. And it did highlight the problems inherent with Russification, which create problems in the Baltic nations to this day.

Inquisitivaite wrote:

4. GDP per capita is rising in Baltics but still does not compare with the rest of Europe... see OECD stats for more details.

This does not detract from my original point. The Baltic nations still have an average income that is twice that of Russia, Ukraine, and other slavic countries.

Moreover, I left out another very important point that was noted by Ireland: As EU members, Baltic citizens can live and work in the other European countries. This is a legal right that citizens of the slavic (non-EU member) countries do not have.

Higher incomes and a right to work in the EU explains why Baltic women have no need to seek marriage from western men.(And if they do, all they have to do is move there.) But slavic women do not have these relatively higher incomes or the right to work elsewhere. They have two choices: stay where they are or seek marriage from western men. It is actually quite logical from an economics perspective.

It is also my understanding that there is also a higher female to male ratio, because of the much lower life spans of men in Russia stemking from alcoholism and suicide.

Inquisitivaite wrote:

Interesting hypothes...
Lastly... many of the names of women that have been trafficked from Lithuania to the UK and other part of Europe have spoken to the press have Lithuanian names (there is a distinction from Slavic names)... though trafficking is not the same as MOB, the women's motive is the same: get out of poverty.... any thoughts?

I don't have too much information on this point, except that the high profile cases that I have read about where an escort is identified as Lithuanian usually identify the woman as speaking Russian and English. This is a dead giveaway that the woman is ethnically Russian, because all ethnic Lithuanians will speak Lithuanian while most Russians living in Lithuania will not.

Unlike Latvia and Estonia, which mandated that Russians must learn the language before becoming citizens, Lithuania extended automatic citizenship after the Cold War. So, most ethnic Russians still do not speak Lithuanian. Latvia and Estonia had much higher percentage of Russian residents, so what they did is understandable, in my view.

Inquisitivaite wrote:

Interesting hypothes...
Why should the man be the "head" of the household? What about mutual respect, gender equality (in terms of rights), partnership?

"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:3

"But if any man does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Timothy 5:8

This does not mean that the wife is a servant. Nor does it mean an equal partnership. While a husband should always seek the advice and counsel of his wife, and they may agree most of the time, and the man may even defer to his wife on many matters, the man is the head of the household and is responsible for the ultimate decisions regarding important family matters.

I once dated a woman who broke off an engagement with another man based on this very point. When they discussed this very issue, her fiancee had insisted that marriage was an equal partnership. She broke off the engagement, because he did not understand his proper role as the head of the household in a marriage.

Veritas wrote:

<quoted text>
This does not detract from my original point. The Baltic nations still have an average income that is twice that of Russia, Ukraine, and other slavic countries.
Moreover, I left out another very important point that was noted by Ireland: As EU members, Baltic citizens can live and work in the other European countries. This is a legal right that citizens of the slavic (non-EU member) countries do not have.
Higher incomes and a right to work in the EU explains why Baltic women have no need to seek marriage from western men.(And if they do, all they have to do is move there.) But slavic women do not have these relatively higher incomes or the right to work elsewhere. They have two choices: stay where they are or seek marriage from western men. It is actually quite logical from an economics perspective.
It is also my understanding that there is also a higher female to male ratio, because of the much lower life spans of men in Russia stemking from alcoholism and suicide.

Because hegemonic arrangements of power have nothing to do with it, right? socio-economic transition and Soviet legacies are what... a myth?

Veritas wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't have too much information on this point, except that the high profile cases that I have read about where an escort is identified as Lithuanian usually identify the woman as speaking Russian and English. This is a dead giveaway that the woman is ethnically Russian, because all ethnic Lithuanians will speak Lithuanian while most Russians living in Lithuania will not.
Unlike Latvia and Estonia, which mandated that Russians must learn the language before becoming citizens, Lithuania extended automatic citizenship after the Cold War. So, most ethnic Russians still do not speak Lithuanian. Latvia and Estonia had much higher percentage of Russian residents, so what they did is understandable, in my view.

It is not a dead-giveaway! If you had completed a sufficent amount of research, you would have learned that Russian was the official language in in all Soviet states and so ALL Lithuanian citizens spoke/speak Russian (regardless of ethnicity)! Many former Soviet states still speak Russian as the common public language and know it better than their native language! Besides... it really doesn't matter... the point is women are advertised as being from the "Baltic" for a reason... it sells!

Veritas wrote:

<quoted text>
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:3
"But if any man does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Timothy 5:8
This does not mean that the wife is a servant. Nor does it mean an equal partnership. While a husband should always seek the advice and counsel of his wife, and they may agree most of the time, and the man may even defer to his wife on many matters, the man is the head of the household and is responsible for the ultimate decisions regarding important family matters.
I once dated a woman who broke off an engagement with another man based on this very point. When they discussed this very issue, her fiancee had insisted that marriage was an equal partnership. She broke off the engagement, because he did not understand his proper role as the head of the household in a marriage.

What on earth does that have to do with the topic? Trust me.... after the Soviet Union, I think many people of the former Soviet Union had difficulty reconciling their relationship with God! I am Lithuanian by descent, Veritas.... I am not trying to "villainize" my own people.... that is not the point of my inquiry. And, I'm sorry to break it to you... Baltic women are a sought after commodity (the advertisements are for "Baltic women," even if redirected to Russian sites) they are not all God-loving family-oriented beings.... I think that there is more dissolutionment than faith in those countries at this point (unfortunately)... "Transition," or drastic social change is traumatic, and the Baltic countries are struggling even if not as drastically as Russia (as you so claim)....

Dalia wrote:

<quoted text>
It is not a dead-giveaway! If you had completed a sufficent amount of research, you would have learned that Russian was the official language in in all Soviet states and so ALL Lithuanian citizens spoke/speak Russian (regardless of ethnicity)! Many former Soviet states still speak Russian as the common public language and know it better than their native language! Besides... it really doesn't matter... the point is women are advertised as being from the "Baltic" for a reason... it sells!

Once again, it is YOU who are wrong. In Lithuania, people over forty know Russian because the Soviet authorities forced them to learn Russian as a second language. People under forty know English because after the occupation ended, Lithuanian schools began requiring English as a second language.

None of the Baltic nations use Russian as the common public language and no ethnic Lithuanians under age 35-40 speak it. It sounds as if you did not really watch "The Singing Revolution" or you would know how ridiculous this sounds. Like black slaves electing to flay themselves after being freed.

So, if you read a news article stating that a "Lithuanian" escort speaks only Russian and English, it quite evident that she is an ethnic Russian from Lithuania -- unless she is a fifty-year-old hooker.

Once again, it is YOU who does not know what she is talking about, while accusing other people of ignorance. This is common knowledge available in any tourist guide to Lithuania. Any Lithuanians, please feel free to step in and correct either me -- or this person who is so embarassed that she keeps changing her name.

Dalia wrote:

<quoted text>
Besides... it really doesn't matter... the point is women are advertised as being from the "Baltic" for a reason... it sells!

Now we're finally getting somewhere! You are exactly right. Scam artists advertise this point, not because it is true, but because it sells. Again, THERE IS NO MOB MARKET FOR BALTIC WOMEN.

The Baltic countries have a great educational system and the women are attractive and family-oriented. There is always a demand for an attractive product, even if there is no market.

There is also a perception that women from this area are seeking husbands because of low wages in the Baltics. That is no longer true, if it ever was. Women can simply move to another EU country to work. But some of this still exists in the slavic countries, because wages are much lower there and mobility to other countries is quite limited.

Veritas wrote:

<quoted text>
Once again, it is YOU who are wrong. In Lithuania, people over forty know Russian because the Soviet authorities forced them to learn Russian as a second language. People under forty know English because after the occupation ended, Lithuanian schools began requiring English as a second language.
None of the Baltic nations use Russian as the common public language and no ethnic Lithuanians under age 35-40 speak it. It sounds as if you did not really watch "The Singing Revolution" or you would know how ridiculous this sounds. Like black slaves electing to flay themselves after being freed.
So, if you read a news article stating that a "Lithuanian" escort speaks only Russian and English, it quite evident that she is an ethnic Russian from Lithuania -- unless she is a fifty-year-old hooker.
Once again, it is YOU who does not know what she is talking about, while accusing other people of ignorance. This is common knowledge available in any tourist guide to Lithuania. Any Lithuanians, please feel free to step in and correct either me -- or this person who is so embarassed that she keeps changing her name.

I am not accusing anyone of ignorance, but you seem very apt to do the very thing you accuse me of. BUT it has not been 40 years since the Soviet Union collapsed, my friend.... people do not just stop old practices abruptly just because one regime ends and another begins! I have friends of my generation (mid-late 20s) who speak Russian to one another because that was the common language across countries in the Soviet Union and it continues to be a common language (like English in North America). Please show me evidence of monolingual Slavic victims who cannot speak Lithuanian... then I may concede....

p.s. having seen the "Singing Revolution" does not make you an expert on the Baltic! That is one perspective and many realities... I will forgive your ignorance since you are not an expert

Veritas wrote:

<quoted text>
Now we're finally getting somewhere! You are exactly right. Scam artists advertise this point, not because it is true, but because it sells. Again, THERE IS NO MOB MARKET FOR BALTIC WOMEN.
The Baltic countries have a great educational system and the women are attractive and family-oriented. There is always a demand for an attractive product, even if there is no market.
There is also a perception that women from this area are seeking husbands because of low wages in the Baltics. That is no longer true, if it ever was. Women can simply move to another EU country to work. But some of this still exists in the slavic countries, because wages are much lower there and mobility to other countries is quite limited.

MY POINT WAS NEVER THAT THERE WAS A MOB MARKET!!!!!! OMG! YOU SRE EXASPERATING! My point is that there is a DEMAND for a Baltic MOB market! Good grief! Are you like this all the time? I can't imagine you keep any friends with this "I must be right even if there isn't a point to it" attitude!

AND MOVING TO ANOTHER EU COUNTRY IS NOT THAT SIMPLE!!!!! YOU ARE SUCH AN ESSENTIALIST! AND YOU'RE IN DENIAL! Becoming a member of the EU does not mean guaranteed equality in all respects! There are serious prejudices that inhibit upward mobility for outsiders.... and since the Baltics have only been members of the EU for a short time, they are still discriminated against.