Libya says building case against Gaddafi son: ICC prosecutor

Observer wrote:

Fresh from the bakery:
News
Issa Abdul Majid Altbawi: ousted the former regime are behind the problems and sedition between the sons of Tabu tribe and other tribes in Kufra
Lighthouse
April 22, 2012
The Libyan news agency
Infidels, April 21, 2012 (Wall)- accused of a leaders Tabu "Isa Abdul Majid," ousted the former regime, Sedition and problems among the people of Tabu and other tribes in the city of infidels ... and warned, "Abdul Majid" in a telephone interview with the Libyan News Agency, the need to take precautions The caution of the ousted the former regime who seek to destabilize the security and stability of Libya, and cut the road in front of them to limit the broadcast intrigue and strife, and Tohmanm to try to go back through this area in case of loss of power in Libya ... and said, "there are a number of the symbols of the former regime are still engaged in their activities of suspicious as they were it during the rule of a tyrant, "... and called on both of the National Assembly and the Transitional Government to rapid and immediate intervention to infanticide and suppression of sedition that tried enemies Azcaha between the people of the city, and stop them, and adhere to the terms of the truce that was agreed upon and which culminated in the return of calm and security and stability of the cities of the South ... The" Isa Abdul Majid, "that the events that were renewed yesterday between Tabu and the tribe Azwaip resulted in the death of one person and injuring another Tabu ...

Good to read from you again. When Gaddafi told in one of his TV interviews Benghazi uprising was an Al-Kaida thing, I considered it as a nonsense. When I saw an Al-Kaida flag above Benghazi court building, I said myself somebody mentally ill was playing a prank. Recently I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch... with one of The NTC brigades spokesman apparently explaining situation in Kufra. Could you tell me what is Al-Kaida flag doing behind him, again?

kiwi wrote:

<quoted text>
The so called NTC is the nicest name I can give to those criminals. If I accepted your theory about a popular uprising or even a revolution for democracy, Jalil&comp. are those who would have stolen it. Ignorant collaborators of Sarkosy, responsible for the bloody way Libya went last year. Have you thought about where these todays problematic militias came from? They did not fall from somewhere in Mars didn´t they? For a whole year of a revolt, hundreds of armed groups could join the like-to-be NTC forces, later even the NLA. Why did they stay separately? Because they did not believe Jalil&Jibril, especially after Yunis assassination, because thy knew NTC did not represent anybody.
Just fresh, well almost fresh from Benghazi: "Participation in the Benghazi voter registration process have been marked by apathy. Many of the Benghazi activists were displeased with the NTC’s rejection of candidates that Misrata Local Council elected to replace the self-appointed NTC members remaining from the war. Why bother with elections if they are not going to have any impact?”
The NTC reduced boundaries of Benghazi to the towns of Sidi Khalifa, Benina and Terria. Not only that people in the towns were angry that they had been eliminated from the local election, but the amount of money allocated to the city will be reduced as well.
Gosh those guys know how to make friends.

Kiwi, I am curious, why would you call the new government names and not offer support, you live in another country and have absolutely no effect on Libya, so why the ill wishes?

Libya was not a popular uprising. Street riots were used as an excuse for a quick and unprepared international intervention. 500.000 Benghazi residents to be slaughtered big lie. Cheating about Arab League support, cheating of The UNSC, cheating about and premature recognising of the so-called NTC what in fact was never supported and never respected by Libyan majority. Using NATO as a World Police trying to find its new role after the Cold War. Siding the rebels instead of calming down of the conflict. Underestimating of one of the toughest world dictators with failed attempt to kill him on time. Ignorance and agressivity of diletants playing 5 million people nation as a dress rehearsal for R2P. Desperate effort not to loose the face and cover the dirty agenda of bribing, financial heist and cooperation with Gaddafi, causing deaths of thousands. Chaos in North Central Africa with increase of power of the most dangerous and fanatical armed groups. Surprisingly for NATO/AL, Jamahirya was able to resist for much longer than originally planned few weeks showing all weakness of not only R2P but American "Smart power" strategy in general. If no Libyan ability to resist we would have had another R2P in Syria with 1.5 Allawis doomed to be hunted by Sunnis in there.
The bloody way of uprising was not chosen by Libyans. The popular slogan of "Gaddafi must go" was too costly and the only party who is winning at the moment are western banks and oil producers.

kiwi wrote:

Libya was not a popular uprising. Street riots were used as an excuse for a quick and unprepared international intervention. 500.000 Benghazi residents to be slaughtered big lie. Cheating about Arab League support, cheating of The UNSC, cheating about and premature recognising of the so-called NTC what in fact was never supported and never respected by Libyan majority. Using NATO as a World Police trying to find its new role after the Cold War. Siding the rebels instead of calming down of the conflict. Underestimating of one of the toughest world dictators with failed attempt to kill him on time. Ignorance and agressivity of diletants playing 5 million people nation as a dress rehearsal for R2P. Desperate effort not to loose the face and cover the dirty agenda of bribing, financial heist and cooperation with Gaddafi, causing deaths of thousands. Chaos in North Central Africa with increase of power of the most dangerous and fanatical armed groups. Surprisingly for NATO/AL, Jamahirya was able to resist for much longer than originally planned few weeks showing all weakness of not only R2P but American "Smart power" strategy in general. If no Libyan ability to resist we would have had another R2P in Syria with 1.5 Allawis doomed to be hunted by Sunnis in there.
The bloody way of uprising was not chosen by Libyans. The popular slogan of "Gaddafi must go" was too costly and the only party who is winning at the moment are western banks and oil producers.

April 24th, 2012

kiwi wrote:

<quoted text>
Good to read from you again. When Gaddafi told in one of his TV interviews Benghazi uprising was an Al-Kaida thing, I considered it as a nonsense. When I saw an Al-Kaida flag above Benghazi court building, I said myself somebody mentally ill was playing a prank. Recently I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch... with one of The NTC brigades spokesman apparently explaining situation in Kufra. Could you tell me what is Al-Kaida flag doing behind him, again?

For decoration, may be..

Observer wrote:

<quoted text>
For decoration, may be..

"A decoration "? Don´t you realise how scared of this flag is any politician north of Mediterranean? I would be never mocking somebody by this way. Do you think, Sarkosy, if familiar with these pictures and youtube shots, would allow to para drop weapons to Nafusa? A political suicide, I´d say.
This is an article I like. I don´t know where is the truth, but its author at least thinks about things being given as granted.
http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.fr/2012/04/kha...

kiwi wrote:

<quoted text>
"A decoration "? Don´t you realise how scared of this flag is any politician north of Mediterranean? I would be never mocking somebody by this way. Do you think, Sarkosy, if familiar with these pictures and youtube shots, would allow to para drop weapons to Nafusa? A political suicide, I´d say.
This is an article I like. I don´t know where is the truth, but its author at least thinks about things being given as granted.
http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.fr/2012/04/kha...

You are making a big fuss about it kiwi,don't bother, politicians know what they were or are doing.

kiwi wrote:

Libya was not a popular uprising. Street riots were used as an excuse for a quick and unprepared international intervention.

Those “street riots” only managed in a few days to take over half the country and declare themselves the sole representatives of the Libyan people. Not bad for a “street riot”.

500.000 Benghazi residents to be slaughtered big lie.

So you mean that Gaddhafi was only joking when he publicly announced that he is sending his army to Benghazi to kill the population?

Cheating about Arab League support, cheating of The UNSC, cheating about and premature recognising of the so-called NTC what in fact was never supported and never respected by Libyan majority.

Call it cheating if you want it sure did work for the Libyan people. As for the NTC, without it no oil could be sold, no oil revenues to support the country coming in, no international flights in and out of Libya, no help retrieving the billions of foreign assets. Not bad for a “so called NTC”.

Using NATO as a World Police trying to find its new role after the Cold War. Siding the rebels instead of calming down of the conflict.

Calm what then? Both sides were absolutely intent on fighting. If you think it’s so easy go try to calm the conflict in Syria.

Underestimating of one of the toughest world dictators with failed attempt to kill him on time.

It wasn’t his toughness that was underestimated. Quite the opposite, in the end he proved a pushover. It was how crazy he was that was underestimated.

Ignorance and agressivity of diletants playing 5 million people nation as a dress rehearsal for R2P. Desperate effort not to loose the face and cover the dirty agenda of bribing, financial heist and cooperation with Gaddafi, causing deaths of thousands.

That sounds more like the script to a very bad Hollywood film. Could it just be that the UN wanted to spare Benghazi an holocaust?

Chaos in North Central Africa with increase of power of the most dangerous and fanatical armed groups.

And these are?

Surprisingly for NATO/AL, Jamahirya was able to resist for much longer than originally planned few weeks showing all weakness of not only R2P but American "Smart power" strategy in general.

A bunch of incompetent, untrained and badly armed civilians finished of your beloved Jamahirya not the Americans. Go look on YouTube see how these guys just drove into Tripoli almost without a fight. Jamahirya? It never really existed. Never had anything really to say. It was just a legend invented by Gaddhafi, nothing more than hot air.

If no Libyan ability to resist we would have had another R2P in Syria with 1.5 Allawis doomed to be hunted by Sunnis in there.

Libyans didn’t resist anything, they were too busy getting rid if Gaddhafi.

The bloody way of uprising was not chosen by Libyans. The popular slogan of "Gaddafi must go" was too costly…

What the hell are you going on about? On all the TV screens and in all the news outlets for all to see, eight months of countless gory scenes of fighting between the rebels and Gaddhafi’s troops. Offers by the regime for talks refused by the rebels because they wanted Gaddhafi to go. Are you now trying to say that this all didn’t happen?

…and the only party who is winning at the moment are western banks and oil producers.

Well that’s good for the Libyan people then. They are oil producers.

Ditto Dog wrote:

<quoted text>
Those “street riots” only managed in a few days to take over half the country and declare themselves the sole representatives of the Libyan people. Not bad for a “street riot”.
<quoted text>
So you mean that Gaddhafi was only joking when he publicly announced that he is sending his army to Benghazi to kill the population?

Half the country in a few days? Not true. It took them 8 months with NATO help, fairly dubious how they couldn't beat a rag tag Gaddafi army for 8 months with NATO help and tons of new weaponary sent in from Qatar. Facts are Gaddafi did have a lot of support also, otherwise the conflict wouldn't have gone on so long. The Libyan Army wasn't a powerful force, and a lot of the fighting in the last few months of the conflict was done by civilian volunteers fighting for Gaddafi.

Gaddafi never said he was sending the army to Benghazi to kill the population? When did he say it? What he did say about it was blown out of all proportion by the media, they also didn't report as much on the peace march to Benghazi he proposed. Why would they the puppets.

Observer wrote:

<quoted text>
Blessing does not go with brutality, tyranny and criminality dude.

And Nato was more than brutal. This shadowy organization committed war crime and will never be accountable for.
Nato and the ICC ( International Crime court ) only exist to go after Blacks , Serbs and Arabs. It sucks !

PS: Read International CRIMINAL court.

kiwi wrote:

The bloody way of uprising was not chosen by Libyans. The popular slogan of "Gaddafi must go" was too costly and the only party who is winning at the moment are western banks and oil producers.

Yes, Too COSTLY and Made In France. God's will the half- french half-hungarian will be defeated on May 6th 2012 and prosecuted once he leaves the Elysee Palace in Paris. Thereafter we
all will say << ALLAH Akbar, God is GREAT ! God is Great !>> .

Panafrican wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, Too COSTLY and Made In France. God's will the half- french half-hungarian will be defeated on May 6th 2012 and prosecuted once he leaves the Elysee Palace in Paris. Thereafter we
all will say << ALLAH Akbar, God is GREAT ! God is Great !>> .

And I hope once this date has passed and you have been proven wrong you will at last give peace and piss off somewhere else.

Dubbadub wrote:

<quoted text>
Half the country in a few days? Not true. It took them 8 months with NATO help, fairly dubious how they couldn't beat a rag tag Gaddafi army for 8 months with NATO help and tons of new weaponary sent in from Qatar.

I repeat, half the country in a few days. The rebels at the start of the conflict had for a few weeks actually taken over half the country. As for the tons of Qatari weapons, really? In the first months, most of the rebels only had old weapons from WW1 and used Molotov cocktails and self made grenades against tanks. And it took a very, very long time until France and Qatar decided to supply the rebels with arms.
So Gaddhafi only had a “rag tag” army to fight against the rebels with. And I suppose the rebels were all highly trained crack elite troops armed with cutting edge combat technology.

Facts are Gaddafi did have a lot of support also, otherwise the conflict wouldn't have gone on so long.

A lot of support???? He was pitting relatively well trained troops armed with tanks, rocket launchers, artillery and a well organised command structure against mostly inexperienced, badly armed and completely disorganised civilians, many of which up until then had never held a weapon in their hands. It’s a wonder that the rebels did so well under the circumstances. NATO was reckoning with at least two years.

The Libyan Army wasn't a powerful force

On paper it was only about a zillion times more powerful than the rebel army.

, and a lot of the fighting in the last few months of the conflict was done by civilian volunteers fighting for Gaddafi.

And why was that? Simple. He didn’t have ”a lot of support” after all. His awesome green army had melted away like a snowball in hell.

Gaddafi never said he was sending the army to Benghazi to kill the population? When did he say it?

You ask that so innocently. Go to YouTube and watch Gaddhafi’s Zenga Zenga speech. In it he personally and undeniably announces that he is sending his army to Benghazi to eradicate the populous, house for house, alley for alley. What more proof do you want?

What he did say about it was blown out of all proportion by the media, they also didn't report as much on the peace march to Benghazi he proposed. Why would they the puppets.

Yeah, sure, his proposed peace march ended up being a huge army convoy laden with death for Benghazi. We can all be grateful that this convoy never arrived otherwise everybody now would be complaining that NATO didn’t stop the massacre in Benghazi just like they didn’t in Rwanda.

Ditto Dog wrote:

<quoted text>
I repeat, half the country in a few days. The rebels at the start of the conflict had for a few weeks actually taken over half the country. As for the tons of Qatari weapons, really? In the first months, most of the rebels only had old weapons from WW1 and used Molotov cocktails and self made grenades against tanks. And it took a very, very long time until France and Qatar decided to supply the rebels with arms.
So Gaddhafi only had a “rag tag” army to fight against the rebels with. And I suppose the rebels were all highly trained crack elite troops armed with cutting edge combat technology.
<quoted text>
A lot of support???? He was pitting relatively well trained troops armed with tanks, rocket launchers, artillery and a well organised command structure against mostly inexperienced, badly armed and completely disorganised civilians, many of which up until then had never held a weapon in their hands. It’s a wonder that the rebels did so well under the circumstances. NATO was reckoning with at least two years.
<quoted text>
On paper it was only about a zillion times more powerful than the rebel army.
<quoted text>
And why was that? Simple. He didn’t have ”a lot of support” after all. His awesome green army had melted away like a snowball in hell.
<quoted text>
You ask that so innocently. Go to YouTube and watch Gaddhafi’s Zenga Zenga speech. In it he personally and undeniably announces that he is sending his army to Benghazi to eradicate the populous, house for house, alley for alley. What more proof do you want?
<quoted text>
Yeah, sure, his proposed peace march ended up being a huge army convoy laden with death for Benghazi. We can all be grateful that this convoy never arrived otherwise everybody now would be complaining that NATO didn’t stop the massacre in Benghazi just like they didn’t in Rwanda.

Where is your evidence that ''half the country was taken in a few days''. Provide it? The Rebels raided army bases taking weapons, tanks etc. Now at the start of the conflict for the first month or so Gaddafi had an unfair air advantage , this was taken away by NATO and the rebels then had the air advantage and even with that it took them 7 months. What a load of crap also, they had rocket launchers fairly quick, stolen tanks too, plenty of technicals armed with anti aircraft weapons. After a couple of months the majority of Gaddafi's weaponary such as tanks etc were destroyed and yet the Gaddafi troops continued on in technicals, cars etc against NATO air bombings and rebels armed with new weaponary for months.

Yes a lot of support, the Libyan Army fought most of the war as the rebels did, in technicals and cars fast moving mobile units, the tanks were of little use as they were being easily picked off by the NATO planes, the strategy of the Libyan Army had to change after a lot of their tanks etc were destroyed. And in what May or June NATO claimed that most of Gaddafi's command and control structure had been destroyed and yet the war waged on until September.

On paper doesn't mean anything, it wasn't a powerful army the tanks etc became useless because of NATO airstrikes. The Libyan Airforce was also destroyed early on. The Libyan Army adopted the tactics of the rebels. There were several towns that were loyal to the Libyan Government. The Libyan Army was far from ''awesome'' it was a rag tag army that held out surprisingly well against NATO air attacks and plain clothes heavily armed rebels who were fighting a guerilla war.

He didn't claim that the population on Benghazi would be eradicated though. The rebels? Yes. The population? No.

NATO didn't stop the massacre at Sirte, nor the massacre at Tawergha a town of 30,000 that the population of has simply vanished from the face of the earth. What about Tawergha? The civilians there weren't protected, thought that was supposed to be the whole idea of the NATO intervention? Same as Sirte? Amazing double standards....

Just like someone plowing in the sea........

Dubbadub wrote:

<quoted text>
Where is your evidence that ''half the country was taken in a few days''. Provide it?

I’m not going to start wasting my time arguing the down right obvious. After all it was reported on all the news channels.

The Rebels raided army bases taking weapons, tanks etc.

Yes but only in Benghazi and using ancient WW1 weapons to do it! But not in Misurata because the army bases there had already been forewarned and were putting up stiff resistance.

Now at the start of the conflict for the first month or so Gaddafi had an unfair air advantage ,

What are you talking about “unfair advantage”? Do you think war is just a game? In war you hit your enemy with everything you’ve got without worrying about if it’s fair or not. Winning it is all that counts no matter how.

this was taken away by NATO and the rebels then had the air advantage and even with that it took them 7 months.

Yes only 7 short months. Surprisingly. NATO was reckoning with at least 2 years but then Gaddhafi’s forces proved far less effective then at first thought.

What a load of crap also, they had rocket launchers fairly quick, stolen tanks too

Did you at all follow the conflict?

, plenty of technicals armed with anti aircraft weapons.

In other words they were resourceful. Certainly part of the reason why they won in the end.

After a couple of months the majority of Gaddafi's weaponary such as tanks etc were destroyed and yet the Gaddafi troops continued on in technicals, cars etc against NATO air bombings and rebels armed with new weaponary for months.

It didn’t help them in the end. They still lost hands down.

Yes a lot of support,

Like the population of Tripoli that Gaddhafi said are going to help him defend the capitol? Loool! Great lot of support he had there.

the Libyan Army fought most of the war as the rebels did, in technicals and cars fast moving mobile units,

And still lost.

Continued below

Continued from above

the tanks were of little use as they were being easily picked off by the NATO planes, the strategy of the Libyan Army had to change after a lot of their tanks etc were destroyed. And in what May or June NATO claimed that most of Gaddafi's command and control structure had been destroyed and yet the war waged on until September.

So what? Wars usually take a while. It took the rebels only 6 months to cut Tripoli off from the rest of the country. After that it was clear that Gaddhafi was well and truly finished. From there on it became a mere mop up job for the rebel forces.

On paper doesn't mean anything, it wasn't a powerful army

Awe come on, dude! Use your common sense! At the start of the conflict Gaddhafi had a professional modern equipped army with a well developed command structure against a bunch of untrained, ill armed chaotic civilians. Under normal circumstances these incompetent imbeciles would have been absolutely no match for any army no matter how “unpowerful” they might be.

the tanks etc became useless because of NATO airstrikes. The Libyan Airforce was also destroyed early on. The Libyan Army adopted the tactics of the rebels. There were several towns that were loyal to the Libyan Government. The Libyan Army was far from ''awesome'' it was a rag tag army that held out surprisingly well against NATO air attacks and plain clothes heavily armed rebels who were fighting a guerilla war.

Rag tag army? Are we talking about the same army? The Khamis brigade for instance was thought to be one of the best and most feared in the whole of North Africa.

He didn't claim that the population on Benghazi would be eradicated though. The rebels? Yes. The population? No.

Gaddhafi was not mincing his words. He made his intentions quite clear that he was going to make an example of Benghazi. Alley for alley, house for house. Sure, he just might have meant only the rebels, but do you really think his goons would have bothered to ask who is a rebel and who isn’t? The risk was too great, 500 000 lives were at stake and Gaddhafi was well known for his brutality. Even Russia and China thought it best to at least not veto an intervention and that is saying a lot.

NATO didn't stop the massacre at Sirte, nor the massacre

Granted. But it was the end game and Sirte’s defenders were being stubborn. Also the NTC had given the town more then enough time and chances to give in. Everyone just wanted to end the war and Sirte was standing in the way. That Gaddhafi was there and blocking any agreements only became clear after he was caught.

at Tawergha a town of 30,000 that the population of has simply vanished from the face of the earth. What about Tawergha? The civilians there weren't protected, thought that was supposed to be the whole idea of the NATO intervention? Same as Sirte? Amazing double standards....

The case of Tawergha is not entirely clear. The NTC says that they found the town deserted of its residents when rebel forces from Misurata arrived there. All the same they should be allowed back and also treated like any other Libyan citizens.

Ditto Dog wrote:

Continued from above
<quoted text>
So what? Wars usually take a while. It took the rebels only 6 months to cut Tripoli off from the rest of the country. After that it was clear that Gaddhafi was well and truly finished. From there on it became a mere mop up job for the rebel forces.

Ditto Dog is another British Shoe Bomber like Richard Reid.
The British were well-known as Gentlemen, now they are becoming jihadists! Things fall Apart.

Learn more about Richard Reid .
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Ditto Dog wrote:

Continued from above
<quoted text>
So what? Wars usually take a while. It took the rebels only 6 months to cut Tripoli off from the rest of the country. After that it was clear that Gaddhafi was well and truly finished. From there on it became a mere mop up job for the rebel forces.
<quoted text>
Awe come on, dude! Use your common sense! At the start of the conflict Gaddhafi had a professional modern equipped army with a well developed command structure against a bunch of untrained, ill armed chaotic civilians. Under normal circumstances these incompetent imbeciles would have been absolutely no match for any army no matter how “unpowerful” they might be.
<quoted text>
Rag tag army? Are we talking about the same army? The Khamis brigade for instance was thought to be one of the best and most feared in the whole of North Africa.
<quoted text>
Gaddhafi was not mincing his words. He made his intentions quite clear that he was going to make an example of Benghazi. Alley for alley, house for house. Sure, he just might have meant only the rebels, but do you really think his goons would have bothered to ask who is a rebel and who isn’t? The risk was too great, 500 000 lives were at stake and Gaddhafi was well known for his brutality. Even Russia and China thought it best to at least not veto an intervention and that is saying a lot.
<quoted text>
Granted. But it was the end game and Sirte’s defenders were being stubborn. Also the NTC had given the town more then enough time and chances to give in. Everyone just wanted to end the war and Sirte was standing in the way. That Gaddhafi was there and blocking any agreements only became clear after he was caught.
<quoted text>
The case of Tawergha is not entirely clear. The NTC says that they found the town deserted of its residents when rebel forces from Misurata arrived there. All the same they should be allowed back and also treated like any other Libyan citizens.

Nice example how to twist history. Soon we will be lectured that the Spring Libyan Revolution was performed by a heroical effort a nation of young students and other combat amateurs who quickly defeated a war machinery of the sinister dictator using fists and stones. Sure with vigilant help of the worlds democrats Air Force always on the alert of protecting freedom.