judge not?

Moleko-o-dieta wrote:

<quoted text>Ok Sash, I will answer your questions on the 'immoral reason', but I am more interested in what YOU understand about 'Judge not!' and what you think the reasoning behind it is.
I agree that the person has an immoral reason like 'monna ke selepe', but where does that come from? And what I've been saying all along is this, the immoral reason makes his actions immoral, not him. Hence you should not judge the person by labelling him immoral.
On the child who doesn't heed his parent's advises the answer is no, the parents should not judge but should continue to try and rid the child of the behaviour, the problem with judging is that soon it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many parents fail to differentiate between what a child does and what he is, they judge and start calling kids moleko(and nna ha ke rate ho rehellwa), nthoesele, satane, nthwesautlwing, jj and in some cases the child internalises this and becomes exactly that. Look up Pygmalion Effect, older people are also susceptible to it.
Ha re utlwe weso, wena o re ho ne ho bolelwang ha hothwe 'judge not', hona lebakabaka ele lefe?

I will respond in based on your thread.

1. I will explain what Matthew 7:1 says.

2. We do not judge a person but the act. God does not hate you but hates sin. I have said that over and over again. However, the person will one day have to answer to God about his/her actions.

3. Labeling people as litlaela especially bana is not acceptable. You are right ha u re ngoana eo o felletsa a lumela hore kannete ke setlaela. So be careful how you judge.

Ke sa ilo noa metsi, ke tla kgutla.

Lentsoe ha le bue ka not judging at all le bua ka not judging unfairly or with self-interest.

Ba bangata ba tsebang verse ena empa ha ba so bule beibele.

Judge but do not be a hypocrite

Those who say judge not they so say because they do not want to be judged.

JUDGE NOT…O rate motho o nyonye sebe.

However, coz batho ha ba batle to repent…they expect Christians hore ba ba ratelle ‘moho le sebe sa bona. Imagine that, kereke e joalo e kaba e tsoeiling taolong. Le baloi kerekeng ea mofuta ona ba amohelehile le boloi ba bona…Now! what would be the difference kereng e joalo le kereke ea Satane????

Likenkeng wrote:

<quoted text>
BE TOLERANT TO PEOPLE AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HURT you IN ANYWAY.
murderers, drug dealers corrupted rapists HURT people; so i don't understand your logic of comparisn here.

I think everybody understands what you are talking about! lol!

Ready for the explaination of what Matthew 7:1 says?

Sash_ wrote:

Lentsoe ha le bue ka not judging at all le bua ka not judging unfairly or with self-interest.
Ba bangata ba tsebang verse ena empa ha ba so bule beibele.
Judge but do not be a hypocrite
Those who say judge not they so say because they do not want to be judged.

What the words say and mean is very much debatable, as this thread has shown. I'll leave that for later then.

My question to you remains why? Why would Jesus say this?

Moleko-o-dieta wrote:

<quoted text> What the words say and mean is very much debatable, as this thread has shown. I'll leave that for later then.
My question to you remains why? Why would Jesus say this?

What the words say is not debatable unless one wants to debate about them.

Jesus said Judge not you HYPOCRYTES.

What are “HYPOCRYTES”?

He did not say do not judge.

Sash_ wrote:

<quoted text>
What the words say is not debatable unless one wants to debate about them.
Jesus said Judge not you HYPOCRYTES.
What are “HYPOCRYTES”?
He did not say do not judge.

that means u can judge only if u r perfect,and to my knowledge theres no perfection in any of us

EA LIOLING.....

PALESA EA LIOLING wrote:

<quoted text>
that means u can judge only if u r perfect,and to my knowledge theres no perfection in any of us
EA LIOLING.....

No that is not true. No one is perfect.

What are “HYPOCRYTES”?

It means you must not judge if you do not want to be judged.

Sash_ wrote:

<quoted text>
No that is not true. No one is perfect.
What are “HYPOCRYTES”?
It means you must not judge if you do not want to be judged.

exactly what im saying *judge if u are perfect,but to my knowledge there is NO PERFECTION*...Sash

EA LIOLING.....

PALESA EA LIOLING wrote:

<quoted text>
exactly what im saying *judge if u are perfect,but to my knowledge there is NO PERFECTION*...Sash
EA LIOLING.....

No that is not true. No one is perfect. Let me leave it here for now. I will return and maybe you will be suprised.

PALESA EA LIOLING wrote:

<quoted text>
exactly what im saying *judge if u are perfect,but to my knowledge there is NO PERFECTION*...Sash
EA LIOLING.....

You must strive for perfection because that is how GOD created you my sister.

Let us not dilute the fact which may not be the truth.

I will come up with the crux of judge not.

To Rebuke Vs To Judge

To rebuke…ho khalema. A man can rebuke…Paul rebuked Peter

To judge…ho ahlola. Only God can judge…ho ahlola ke ho hanela ngoana oeno tokelo ea mohau oo Morena a re fileng through the cross coz o re re ke moetsa libe. Kereng ea Morena mamati a buletsoe beatsa libe bohle…however, motho a kene AND sebe se sale ka ntle (repent).

Hana temana e reng ‘a tree is known by its friuts’ e bolelang? I interprete it to mean…I will be a liar to point at an orange tree with oranges in it AND declare it as an apply tree. The Bible teaches us not to lie…it’s a sin.

Perfection: the bible does confirm that no human being is perfect AND as Sash correctly points out…it says we must strive for perfection

Ok, i will go on to say what i think - i have lost Sashe's comment which was a lead to response!

Sash, I believe people's desire is not to judge when problems arise but to seek working solutions. It is for that reason that when a person makes a mistake or sins, we start first by reviewing the matter - probing on the situation, curcumstances and factors that led to the incident.
This process of reviewing the incident seeks to establish, realize and understand the source/cause of the incident. However, it is important to be aware of the premise of this process.

At this level, my understanding is that no judgement thoughts are attached BUT the desire to know and understand.

The same process is evoked in a situation where sentiments are the source of such an investigation. However, then the outcome of the investigation is heavily influenced by the sentiments - be it emotions, tangibles or otherwise. And i suppose this is where the notion of "judge not" comes into play, and matters are stretched to philosophical ends.

Chitja wa Botha Bothe wrote:

<quoted text>
I think everybody understands what you are talking about! lol!

Are you one of them who understand what nnuku is talking about, moholoane?

Ngoana-Matala wrote:

Ok, i will go on to say what i think - i have lost Sashe's comment which was a lead to response!
Sash, I believe people's desire is not to judge when problems arise but to seek working solutions. It is for that reason that when a person makes a mistake or sins, we start first by reviewing the matter - probing on the situation, curcumstances and factors that led to the incident.
This process of reviewing the incident seeks to establish, realize and understand the source/cause of the incident. However, it is important to be aware of the premise of this process.
At this level, my understanding is that no judgement thoughts are attached BUT the desire to know and understand.
The same process is evoked in a situation where sentiments are the source of such an investigation. However, then the outcome of the investigation is heavily influenced by the sentiments - be it emotions, tangibles or otherwise. And i suppose this is where the notion of "judge not" comes into play, and matters are stretched to philosophical ends.

How did you drop Sash's comment? However you confirm Sash's comment by "I believe people's desire is not to judge when problems arise but to seek working solutions".

Ngoana-Matala wrote:

Ok, i will go on to say what i think - i have lost Sashe's comment which was a lead to response!
Sash, I believe people's desire is not to judge when problems arise but to seek working solutions. It is for that reason that when a person makes a mistake or sins, we start first by reviewing the matter - probing on the situation, curcumstances and factors that led to the incident.
This process of reviewing the incident seeks to establish, realize and understand the source/cause of the incident. However, it is important to be aware of the premise of this process.
At this level, my understanding is that no judgement thoughts are attached BUT the desire to know and understand.
The same process is evoked in a situation where sentiments are the source of such an investigation. However, then the outcome of the investigation is heavily influenced by the sentiments - be it emotions, tangibles or otherwise. And i suppose this is where the notion of "judge not" comes into play, and matters are stretched to philosophical ends.

Sentiments neh? Uena u bohlale ua tseba.

Hence ke re "Jesus said Judge not you HYPOCRYTES". He did not say do not judge at all. Do you see the use of the word "HYPOCRYTES" BELIEVERS? That is where lies the meaning of Judge not.

Sash_ wrote:

<quoted text>
No that is not true. No one is perfect.
What are “HYPOCRYTES”?
It means you must not judge if you do not want to be judged.

[MATTHEW 7:1-5:
"JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."]

"JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED" does NOT equal 'Rebuke not, that ye be not rebuked" so lets be clear on this, you may rebuke but do not judge.'Why?' you may ask, the answer is simple: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." This is the point that I've been trying so tirelessly to explain, that when you judge the person (and not the action) you put a value (negative) on the person based on the few things you know about the person and without taking into account everything that has led to the person committing the sin. You may say "So what?" but remember then that you'll also be judged the same way, WITHOUT taking into account every small aspect that contributed to you sinning.

Sash_ wrote:

<quoted text>
Jesus said Judge not you HYPOCRITES.
What are “HYPOCRITES”?

I disagree that this is directed only at hypocrites (read the verse above), also, according to the bible everybody will be judged by God and that will be based (amongst others) on how they judged others.

Now, even IF you were correct (that this is directed only at hypocrites), what is a hyprocrite? A hypocrite is someone who condemns/blames/judges others for doing something which he himself does. But according to Christianity one sin equals another, there's no bigger or better sin. Ergo (based on definition of sin) everybody who sins is a hypocrite if they condemn/blame/judge others for sinning. So Jesus was speaking to all people except those who don't sin (PALESA EA LIOLING trie to show you this). So let he without sin declare himself a 'NON-hypocrite'!

I rest my case!

Moleko-o-dieta wrote:

<quoted text>[MATTHEW 7:1-5:
"JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."]
"JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED" does NOT equal 'Rebuke not, that ye be not rebuked" so lets be clear on this, you may rebuke but do not judge.'Why?' you may ask, the answer is simple: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." This is the point that I've been trying so tirelessly to explain, that when you judge the person (and not the action) you put a value (negative) on the person based on the few things you know about the person and without taking into account everything that has led to the person committing the sin. You may say "So what?" but remember then that you'll also be judged the same way, WITHOUT taking into account every small aspect that contributed to you sinning.
<quoted text>
I disagree that this is directed only at hypocrites (read the verse above), also, according to the bible everybody will be judged by God and that will be based (amongst others) on how they judged others.
Now, even IF you were correct (that this is directed only at hypocrites), what is a hyprocrite? A hypocrite is someone who condemns/blames/judges others for doing something which he himself does. But according to Christianity one sin equals another, there's no bigger or better sin. Ergo (based on definition of sin) everybody who sins is a hypocrite if they condemn/blame/judge others for sinning. So Jesus was speaking to all people except those who don't sin (PALESA EA LIOLING trie to show you this). So let he without sin declare himself a 'NON-hypocrite'!
I rest my case!

We both agreed that the action is what God does not want. I also stressed that God loves us all.

What is the meaning of "to judge" in this case?

Criticize
Disapprove
Slate
Censure

The common factor in these words are Criticize and Disapprove. Lets be clear that the moelelo ua taba ena (Judge not) is to disapprove the sin commited and not to condemn a person to hell because only God has that power.

So, hang in there and I will come with answers to your questions ant we can "rest our case".

@ Moleko.
Here is an extract from one source. Maybe it will help you understand. IT IS LONG AND WILL REQUIRE NORE THAN ONE POSTING. PLEASE READ ALL OF THEM.

It may be the most often quoted and yet most misunderstood verse in the whole Bible. People who have never even cracked open a Bible have heard and quoted this verse.“Do not judge so that you will not be judged” Matthew 7:1

Usually that verse is used like a hammer to immediately stop any discussion about the rightness or wrongness of a persons behavior. Almost invariably if someone claims that a certain action or behavior is wrong, someone will say,“But Jesus said we are not to judge anyone”. The clear implication is that we can never say if some behavior is sin or not because we are not to judge. Sometimes these words are shouted out in anger and rage,“You can’t judge me!”.

What is possibly more amazing than the fact that so many people quote this verse and the concept of not judging, is that so many people could get the real meaning so completely wrong. This is especially true since the context makes it clear what Jesus meant by these words. When Jesus said that we should not judge unless we be judged also, he was not saying that we are to never judge if behavior is sin or not. What he was doing was giving us a caution to make sure that we are willing to be judged by the same standard of judgment. This verse is not a warning against judging an action. It is a warning against self deception and hypocrisy.

The way we know this is the same way that we usually know what the Bible teaches. We look at the context. The verse that immediately follow helps explain what Jesus was saying. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2 In other words, if you are going to say that what someone else is doing is wrong then you better be prepared to be judged by the same standard. If you don’t want your life to be scrutinized, then don’t judge others. If you can stand the scrutiny then go ahead. Think of Al Gore telling us that we need to cut down our energy use in order to save the planet and then finding out that he has three large homes and the carbon footprint of Godzilla. He needed to read this verse first.