“Cogito ergo sum”

Since: Nov 10

Klerksdorp

#223 Aug 18, 2012
MOANANONG wrote:
<quoted text>
Well - If they were as smart as you assert I would surely know them. According to the information I got through googling as you suggested, there does seem to be evidence of smithing of gold by the Mapungubwe WHO THEN dissapeared in thin air. It really eludes my mind why a tribe that knew so much about the value of gold would not expand and thrive to become one of Africa's wealthy nations. If your assertion is anything to go by...why would they trade something with so much value - in exchange of what really...mirrors perhaps?
WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM...isnt this quite a mystery - a nation blessed with that amount of wisdom dissapearing without a trace. mind boggling...
There is nothing mind boggling about why that civilisation disappeared Moananong, many much bigger civilisations even empires have come and gone, from the Babylonians, Persians, Aztecs, Incas to even bigger ones like the Roman empire and the Mongolian one which covered half the world at one point.
No ancient civilisation or empire has stood the test of time as there's many other factors involved other that wealthy, that you can mine gold doesn't mean much especially at that time as the market commodities for the area then would have been more in the form of lifestock.

“GOD IS LOVE”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#224 Aug 19, 2012
Moleko-o-dieta wrote:
<quoted text> What assertion is that, you keep referring to my assertion and yet I made none except inform you of Mapungubwe. Explain yourself,????
My apology there brother Moleko-o-dieta...it was in-fact brother KT who alluded to the fact that black people knew about 'precious metals'. Then my take is...if they did, then they'd certainly be one of the wealthiest nations today. I do agree that their land was rich with precious minerals...however, they were ignorant to their true value and that is why they traded them for valueless resources.

“GOD IS LOVE”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#225 Aug 19, 2012
Sash_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought that we agreed that mines without miners have no value (not going to change the economy). It happened that they invaded SA and as a result discovered mines. Consequently, a black man worked underground to make that gold valuable hence people come to SA for a better life. People would not be comming here if a black man refused to go underground and that is the truth.
I am not disputing that other nationals also worked underground but I doubt that their presence made any significant contribution. I mean they could not have even contributed 2% of the work force.
Yes black South Africans are not lazy. Look at the World Cup stadiums and tell me who built them. Also advise who hosted the World Cup? It was SAFA and the top guys at SAFA are blacks.
Lastly Moleko said "the roads infrastructure that dwarfs any country's in Africa and the railway network that amounts to more than 80% of the entire continent's was build by the sweat of then black man. I need to add that the same road and rail network is still maintained by a black man.
Every country has it's lazy people but it is not correct to generalise like this.
To say Jan van Reebeeck is a blessing is equal to noy caring about all the South African lives that were lost due to his invasion Brother Moananong. People paid a price with their lives for SA to be where it is today, including the miners who never came back alive from underground.
Brother Sash! I do agree with you that miners did play a pivotal role...however, what I understand you to be saying is more like - putting emphasis on the importance of an axe before the one hold and controlling the axe. Anyhow, my brother! if you really believe that black people from neighbouring countries in the mines constituted 2%, abviously you do not know your history. Lemme put it this way to you...the majority of black people working in the mines, as a matter of fact originated from neighbouring countries and most of them are South African citizens today. I dont want to get into why mine owners prefered outsiders than black South Africans...that would surely ignite contraversy.

As to why South Africa is the best economically in Africa, I will once again boldly point my finger at Van Riebeeck and his ofspring. The invasion did reslut in casualties in both sides...judging by your pride to be South African today - rightly so. Wouldn't you say it was worth it? They lost their precious lives for you to have a better future...the future South Africa that you are now enjoying.

Tell me this...honestly speaking - if they (whites)did not invade your land, would South Africa be anywhere near where it is today - how about Mfecane wars???

As a matter of fact...the Africa we knw today would be different.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#226 Aug 20, 2012
Dont even start mentioning where we would be today, Since the taking of the government by black people dispite all other downfall south african economy has reached milestones never reached before by the white era government.

Do you know about the Bafokeng tribe outside Rustenburg how they achieved the ownership of their land??? If you know, you would really understand how hardworking black people are.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#227 Aug 20, 2012
Chitja wa Botha Bothe wrote:
<quoted text>
One think I like about this forum is that we learn quiet a lot of things! Like blacks making bow and arrows arrows with iron ore!
(Ka Sesotho: sechaba sa rantsho se etsa diqha ka tshepe!?????)
Tsoela pele re mametse ngoaneso.
Chitja, In South africa only, this voortrekker found African with a lot of Gold ornaments and literally stole it from them. Remember gold as a soft metal it was very simple to work with. So black people have made art and other ornaments with it and when voortrekkers saw how much in abondence it was, then they started their sneaky business dealings. But it was always in the interest of Black native people to collect and work with precious metals. And when shaka was fighting with spears, what were they made of?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#228 Aug 20, 2012
MOANANONG wrote:
<quoted text>
Brother Sash! I do agree with you that miners did play a pivotal role...however, what I understand you to be saying is more like - putting emphasis on the importance of an axe before the one hold and controlling the axe. Anyhow, my brother! if you really believe that black people from neighbouring countries in the mines constituted 2%, abviously you do not know your history.
Fair enough, I jumped the gun about % of foreign mine workers but that does not mean I know little about my history.

We again agree that miners played a pivotal role, so why do you still glorify Van Riebeek? People are not axes. They have a mind of their own. No axe then no wielder.

The question that was posed is why Somalis, Zimbabweans etc come to SA? The answer is simple. They are attracted by the economy. It does not matter who is the architect. The fact is that they are here for the money and not for the lies that black South Africans are lazy.
MOANANONG wrote:
<quoted text>
As to why South Africa is the best economically in Africa, I will once again boldly point my finger at Van Riebeeck and his ofspring. The invasion did reslut in casualties in both sides...judging by your pride to be South African today - rightly so. Wouldn't you say it was worth it? They lost their precious lives for you to have a better future...the future South Africa that you are now enjoying.
Ask Chris Hani and Steve Biko's families if that was worth it. They will say yes because they do not have control of what happened to their father, son and husband. However, I am dead sure they would have wished otherwise if they had control
MOANANONG wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me this...honestly speaking - if they (whites)did not invade your land, would South Africa be anywhere near where it is today - how about Mfecane wars???
As a matter of fact...the Africa we knw today would be different.
You are right that it may not have been the same. However, we cannot prove that it would not be better unless you imply that blacks are stupid. Do you not think that if whites were not greedy maybe we would be far better?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#229 Aug 20, 2012
katelakapeleolekamorago wrote:
Dont even start mentioning where we would be today, Since the taking of the government by black people dispite all other downfall south african economy has reached milestones never reached before by the white era government.
Do you know about the Bafokeng tribe outside Rustenburg how they achieved the ownership of their land??? If you know, you would really understand how hardworking black people are.
It is surprising why international companies invest in SA when its workforce is comprised of lazy people. The economy need tax payers among other sources to be sustainable. Black South Africans are major contributors of Tax as they generate revenue for the companies and still be expected to pay Tax from their own pockets. How much Tax do companies like Angolo Platinum/ Gold, Pick n Pay, Vodacom, MTN pay to the government? And who is the major contributor in generating that Revenue? Look no further as it is the black man. These companies would have long closed shop if Black South Africans were lazy. Vodacom is pumping money at clubs like Chiefs and Pie-Rats (lol). Why is that so? Because they know that it is a good investment as the working Black South African man will compensate for their investment AS THEY ARE THE ORIGINAL SUPPORTERS OF THOSE TEAMS.

“GOD IS LOVE”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#230 Aug 20, 2012
Brother Shash…I know that Chitja’s topic sounds somewhat impolite. My brother ‘na le oena we’re blacks…ha ke bua ka motho e motsho le ‘na kea kena ka hara palo eo…seriously speaking we need to do some serious introspection – a lot is not right. I mean - let’s be honest…since we(blacks) took over governance from whites, what you refer to as achievements are far outweighed by the damage thereof. Let’s look at what happened to the Golden City (Joburg) when the black man took over…it turned into mess in over a year of black governance - what did the whites do…left and that f course lead the establishment of metro centers and suburbs like Sandton – black said ‘lea hlanya…re tla le sala morao le hona mono.

Black South Africans are so lucky in that when they took over the economy all they had to do was to manage and sustain it….everything else was already in place – infrastructure, mines ,etc. If this was a marathon race…I would say compared to other countries, when the ANC joined the race…they were already 400 miles ahead –thanks to Van Riebeeck and his offspring. This is the economy that you’re so proud of and attributing its success to the muscles/sweat NOT ‘brains’ mind you, put in by blacks. As for blacks being stupid…reading between the lines in your comments – sounds like that’s your sentiment precisely.

Y’know! What I love ka bo rametlae ba America – African American Comedians…metlaeng ea bona implicitly characterize a black man a le botsoa and stupid…we just laugh re sa mamele molaetsa. Lemme give u a few lines from Chris Rock:

1. My mother is the kind of woman you don't want to be in line behind at the supermarket. She has coupons for coupons

2. My mother was real cheap. Okay, practical. She would never pay a bill on time. "If they ain't cutting it off, I ain't paying." She would say, "The first bill is a suggestion. If they really want you to pay it, then they'll come and tap on your window." Her whole philosphy of life was: if you die owing money, then you've won.

3. The only thing I know about Africa is that it's far, far away. About a thirty-five hour flight. The boat ride's so long, there are still slaves on their way here.

4. I live in a neighborhood so bad that you can get shot while getting shot.

This is all sooo funny…what is Chris really saying here about a black man???

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#231 Aug 20, 2012
Sash_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Fair enough, I jumped the gun about % of foreign mine workers but that does not mean I know little about my history.
We again agree that miners played a pivotal role, so why do you still glorify Van Riebeek? People are not axes. They have a mind of their own. No axe then no wielder.
Sash, my grandfather was amongst the group that started working at Kimberly diamond mines and he said at that time ALL miners where South africans, and later on, came people from other counries thus the introduction of the fanagalore lingo. Because of the fierce fightings and other factors like in the case of my grandfather they had accumulated enough money to buy Land, which is now the Bafokeng LAnd in Rustenburg then they withdrew from the mines because they had accomplish what they where there for but people from Malawi and far countries found it impossible to go back to their countries because it was so far away and costs and transportation did not allow. This led them to increase their numbers untill recently.

The number of foreigners in mines means nothing interms of Hardwork or lazyness. Local people quitted the mines because they could not stand the exploitation but people from far found that the slave mining life was better than where they came from. Local people exploited other numerous luxarious (relative to mining duties) forms of work opportunities like going to school and becoming teachers, nurses, clerks,farming etc.So the facts are:

The global dinamics of economics have hindered black peoples progress, and this has nothing to do with laziness. Give a blackman his freedom and see his tenacity to make wonders, and confine him and see how quickly he turns and make use of other opportunities even if some are outlaw.
Sancrana-Laleo

Bloemfontein, South Africa

#232 Aug 21, 2012
Sash,sorry if my submission offended you. Feela ha ke bala molaetsa oa hau I get the feeling Sesotho is not your first language. Ha ke re,' botsoa kea bo bona...' it means whatever I am going to talk about has nothing to do with ' botsoa.' Ofcourse not every household in SA is as unfortunate as my submission seem to suggest. BUT I can assure you that not in one of all the countries I have been to exists whatever my comments implored. Ka paseka ke ne ke lutse moriting ha motsoalle mane Evaton West, esale ke makalla bongata ba mathisa a baimana a fetang tseleng. Ignorant me, I thought there was a clinic nearby, only to find that ho uoa skhambaneng!

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#233 Aug 21, 2012
Sancrana-Laleo wrote:
Sash,sorry if my submission offended you. Feela ha ke bala molaetsa oa hau I get the feeling Sesotho is not your first language. Ha ke re,' botsoa kea bo bona...' it means whatever I am going to talk about has nothing to do with ' botsoa.' Ofcourse not every household in SA is as unfortunate as my submission seem to suggest. BUT I can assure you that not in one of all the countries I have been to exists whatever my comments implored. Ka paseka ke ne ke lutse moriting ha motsoalle mane Evaton West, esale ke makalla bongata ba mathisa a baimana a fetang tseleng. Ignorant me, I thought there was a clinic nearby, only to find that ho uoa skhambaneng!
Ngoaneso ke kopa u bale molaetsa ua hau hape u ntjoetse hore na ha ua bua ka botsoa?
Sancrana laleo wrote:
Ache, botsoa kea bo bona. Banna bana ba bona ba kenang sekolo-to be exact, matriculants, bona ekare ba loiloe. Never in my life have I ever seen bolee bo tjena. Ke bua ka batho ba fihlelang feela 20% ea mats'oao a hlokoang. Ke hore banna meleko e sa tsotelleng hakaalo, halofo ea bona in every stream ha se mohlolo ho fumana ba theta mahe a likhaka.


Na ho thetha mahe a khaka ha ho amane le botsoa ho ea ka uena?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#234 Aug 21, 2012
Sancrana-Laleo wrote:
Sash,sorry if my submission offended you. Feela ha ke bala molaetsa oa hau I get the feeling Sesotho is not your first language. Ha ke re,' botsoa kea bo bona...' it means whatever I am going to talk about has nothing to do with ' botsoa.' Ofcourse not every household in SA is as unfortunate as my submission seem to suggest. BUT I can assure you that not in one of all the countries I have been to exists whatever my comments implored. Ka paseka ke ne ke lutse moriting ha motsoalle mane Evaton West, esale ke makalla bongata ba mathisa a baimana a fetang tseleng. Ignorant me, I thought there was a clinic nearby, only to find that ho uoa skhambaneng!
I was not offended. It was actually funny hence I started by laughing.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#235 Aug 21, 2012
MOANANONG wrote:
Brother Shash…I know that Chitja’s topic sounds somewhat impolite. My brother ‘na le oena we’re blacks…ha ke bua ka motho e motsho le ‘na kea kena ka hara palo eo…seriously speaking we need to do some serious introspection – a lot is not right. I mean - let’s be honest…since we(blacks) took over governance from whites, what you refer to as achievements are far outweighed by the damage thereof. Let’s look at what happened to the Golden City (Joburg) when the black man took over…it turned into mess in over a year of black governance - what did the whites do…left and that f course lead the establishment of metro centers and suburbs like Sandton – black said ‘lea hlanya…re tla le sala morao le hona mono.
Black South Africans are so lucky in that when they took over the economy all they had to do was to manage and sustain it….everything else was already in place – infrastructure, mines ,etc. If this was a marathon race…I would say compared to other countries, when the ANC joined the race…they were already 400 miles ahead –thanks to Van Riebeeck and his offspring. This is the economy that you’re so proud of and attributing its success to the muscles/sweat NOT ‘brains’ mind you, put in by blacks. As for blacks being stupid…reading between the lines in your comments – sounds like that’s your sentiment precisely.
Your standpoint about van Riebeeck does not change the fact that the foreigners come here for the economy and not for laziness of South Africans my dear friend Moananong.

Did you say Sandton came as a result of according to you, Jozi decaying? When last were you in Jozi? Sandton has always been there.

Have you heard about EPWP programmes just to name one?

What I like about what you said is that the economy is here to be sustained and I explained in my previous post that South Africans are sustaining it. Ask Pick n Pay and everyone who is in the line to invest in SA.

“GOD IS LOVE”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#236 Aug 22, 2012
Sash brother…about Stanton - its popularity emerged along side the fall of Joburg…that I know for a fact. I might be in Lesotho BUT I do know a lot about what’s happening in the Transvaal. SOWETO in my other home…my mother was born there – my uncles, aunts and cousins are all over Transvaal.

As I said already – I wish the topic would not dwell too much on black South Africans BUT blacks in general…our only way forward as blacks is to objectively look at ourselves to say ‘is everything really alright’. Ke hlokomela ha re itellisa ka machaba ana a mang AND that pisses me off sooo much…coz there’s nothing a white man can do that we blacks cannot do better if we learn to acknowledge our flaws and stay focused.

My brother…I studied the shots on TV of what happened at Marikana Mines AND really shocked by what I witnessed. What I surely did not see, was a mass of people in a ‘peaceful protest’ BUT saw a militia with assortment of deadly weapons ready for war THEN I asked myself, who is the enemy here – police??? Mapolesa ona ha se bana ba batho ba tsoetsoeng joalo ka bona…banna le basali ba labalabelang ho phelela malapa a bona – what were they supposed to do…fold their arms while they’re being assaulted with deadly weapons and their lives in clear danger??? Faced with kind of danger…my life would have also been my foremost priority. May the souls of all the deceased rest in peace….phephi ho malapa a amehileng.

Haeba o teng motho a tsebang ho senya ntho e ntle…ke motho e motso – DEMOCRACY. Hence my stance…ha kere re itekoleng rona chaba sa rantsho.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#237 Aug 22, 2012
Moana, about the Marikana situation, If we are lucky the truth will be revealled, but let me share this little that I know. I have projects running in the same Lonmin mines that is expiriencing this riot, and my home is in the area, my brothers neighbour is a police who was stationed at the same area at the time of this riots.

People have been picketing in a bush for a week causing no distruction to the general public, they were only causing havoc to colleques who were "magundwanes" otherwise also with their employers. Now the police stood infront of them and on Thursday the police took a monotorium that despite what they where going to disperse the crowd at all costs. If the police came there to observe and monitor and administer peace this could have been avoided. So the police in wanting them to disperse are the ones who instituted the violence thus knowing they have the ability to kill rather than been killed.

The police will not admitt any wrong doing because the stakes are high, not the ANC since if they do then they would have dug themselves a grave. ZUMA will have to go with immediate effect. Why doesnt the ANC blame anybody except police??? cause they know the police acted improperly. the evidence its there,

“GOD IS LOVE”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#238 Aug 22, 2012
Brother KT…I acknowledge the fact that you are more acquainted to the situation than I do. However, judging by the pictures I saw on TV, I really will take sides with the police and the ANC government. The presence of the police there was indeed to monitor and administer peace…those people were indeed a danger to their colleagues and employers. My brother! that crowd was not in a peaceful mood at all…they looked thirsty for blood and unfortunately ‘the boot was on the other foot’. Lives were lost and its unfortunate really…to however expect the police not to take protective measures when their lives are under thread is not only being extreme with our civil rights BUT not respecting the lives of the people (police) who dedicate their lives everyday to protect ours and ensure that the world a better place to live in. Their approach was according to protocol in as far as m concerned…that crowd was unruly.

Chitja my friend….so sori to budge into ur thread like this. Brother KT! Let’s further discuss this issue elsewhere…

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#239 Aug 22, 2012
MOANANONG wrote:
Sash brother…about Stanton - its popularity emerged along side the fall of Joburg…that I know for a fact. I might be in Lesotho BUT I do know a lot about what’s happening in the Transvaal. SOWETO in my other home…my mother was born there – my uncles, aunts and cousins are all over Transvaal.
As I said already – I wish the topic would not dwell too much on black South Africans BUT blacks in general…our only way forward as blacks is to objectively look at ourselves to say ‘is everything really alright’. Ke hlokomela ha re itellisa ka machaba ana a mang AND that pisses me off sooo much…coz there’s nothing a white man can do that we blacks cannot do better if we learn to acknowledge our flaws and stay focused.
My brother…I studied the shots on TV of what happened at Marikana Mines AND really shocked by what I witnessed. What I surely did not see, was a mass of people in a ‘peaceful protest’ BUT saw a militia with assortment of deadly weapons ready for war THEN I asked myself, who is the enemy here – police??? Mapolesa ona ha se bana ba batho ba tsoetsoeng joalo ka bona…banna le basali ba labalabelang ho phelela malapa a bona – what were they supposed to do…fold their arms while they’re being assaulted with deadly weapons and their lives in clear danger??? Faced with kind of danger…my life would have also been my foremost priority. May the souls of all the deceased rest in peace….phephi ho malapa a amehileng.
Haeba o teng motho a tsebang ho senya ntho e ntle…ke motho e motso – DEMOCRACY. Hence my stance…ha kere re itekoleng rona chaba sa rantsho.
Atleast we agree that sweeping statements are not the way to go. I agree that we need to look at Blacks as a whole.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#240 Aug 22, 2012
MOANANONG wrote:
Brother KT…I acknowledge the fact that you are more acquainted to the situation than I do. However, judging by the pictures I saw on TV, I really will take sides with the police and the ANC government. The presence of the police there was indeed to monitor and administer peace…those people were indeed a danger to their colleagues and employers. My brother! that crowd was not in a peaceful mood at all…they looked thirsty for blood and unfortunately ‘the boot was on the other foot’. Lives were lost and its unfortunate really…to however expect the police not to take protective measures when their lives are under thread is not only being extreme with our civil rights BUT not respecting the lives of the people (police) who dedicate their lives everyday to protect ours and ensure that the world a better place to live in. Their approach was according to protocol in as far as m concerned…that crowd was unruly.
Chitja my friend….so sori to budge into ur thread like this. Brother KT! Let’s further discuss this issue elsewhere…
"I was about to suggest that you take this to Black People are destructive by nature".

The police should have employed risk management skills immediately after the first 10 people were killed. They could have secured the area with barbed wires at certain intervals. However, you are right when you say they had to protect themselves. Consequently, I cry with the families who lost their loved once but also understand why the cops had to react the way they deed. Time will tell hore who's fault it is that led to this tragedy though.
Ike

Pretoria, South Africa

#241 Aug 22, 2012
Since when SA became lazy, to cut the matter shot if SA r lazy leave them alone go to your country and show how hard worker r u, sell your sister the drugs u r selling to SA children and leave your pride in your country e.g Nigerian will tell that for them to be SA is beacuse their International is not tru they r suffering and cannot control their penis for this reason they r overpopulated.
Black dick aka Fire briga

Pretoria, South Africa

#242 Aug 22, 2012
Sash_ wrote:
<quoted text>
"I was about to suggest that you take this to Black People are destructive by nature".
The police should have employed risk management skills immediately after the first 10 people were killed. They could have secured the area with barbed wires at certain intervals. However, you are right when you say they had to protect themselves. Consequently, I cry with the families who lost their loved once but also understand why the cops had to react the way they deed. Time will tell hore who's fault it is that led to this tragedy though.
wena Sash ntja mme di comment tsa hao mona diforumong ke tse bold and serious ka nnete o bonahala eka o le intellectual mara haeba o kgona ho mamella manyala le ditlhapa ts mona topixing ka nnete o sebete ene keya o tlotla ka seo , you can have a flourishing career in politics

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