A return flight long overdue

Glad their neighborhood survived. Five generations of my family grew up near Fulton Elementary on 53rd and Wood. Practically every (surviving) house in the area is now on a five-acre lot. Looks like a war zone. Most of these buildings were two- and three-flats which were the first to be trashed.

My question is was there a difference in the time of selling or in the buyers. It is sad that the first two posters comments are as if all black people are one cohesive unit. I am sure in all white neighborhoods your trailer trash presents itself.

I bought my house on the westside from a white woman who did absolutely nothing to it. I have done upgrades of at least $1,000 a year every year since owing the place.

Did of you notice that it is the level of economics that makes the biggest difference in a neighborhood? The black woman was upset because Section 8 folks were moving in and probably bringing their bad manners with them.

Perhaps you should have looked at other neighborhoods that were affected by "white flight" for a broader perspective. I was born on 64th and Justine, lived on 66th and Seeley, went to the same schools my Father and Uncle went to (O'Toole Grade school on 65 th and Seeley and Harper High school on 65th and Wood. Sad to sad, this neighborhood has changed considerably since the sixties and early seventies.

One of the problems that accelerates "white flight" is that the critical mass of people are no longer there to support the same neighborhood institutions. When my neighborhood changed, the new black residents were not interested in supporting the Catholic church and school, the same mom-and-pop pizza joints, grocery stores, and taverns. They had their own institutions and churches. So when more white ethnic people leave, the whites that remain do not have the economic power to support those institutions anymore. The Catholic school closes due to lack of students, the mom-and-pop grocer has to board up - meaning, it's not the same neighborhood anymore.

Perhaps you should have looked at other neighborhoods that were affected by "white flight" for a broader perspective. I was born on 64th and Justine, lived on 66th and Seeley, went to the same schools my Father and Uncle went to (O'Toole Grade school at 65th and Seeley and Harper High school at 65th and Wood. Sad to say, this neighborhood has changed considerably since the sixties and early seventies.

At this point, I am still concerned to move back to 69th and Paulina. I was baptized at St. Mary of Mount Carmel. We loved Pete's Pizzaria and everyone in my family graduated from Harper High.

I believe 75 - 85% of the people there would be great neighbors and people i would trust my children with. Unfortunately, the 15 - 25% make it impossible to risk the lives of our children to place them in that area.

Mike wrote:

I believe 75 - 85% of the people there would be great neighbors and people i would trust my children with. Unfortunately, the 15 - 25% make it impossible to risk the lives of our children to place them in that area.

Most people don't take the time or brain power to even think like this. I believe that you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, a small percentage of the people in these neighborhoods make it hell for the rest of the people living there.

My family moved to a south side area in the late 70's, the block was 80% white, in two years it was 80% black. There was a family that I befriended, their father was very honest with me and said he could not afford to lose equity in his home. As a kid I had no idea what he meant so he told me. It was a eye opening conversation. This city would be much better if real estate agents and families did not fall prey to the lies back in those days.

I used to live in Jeffrey Manor and went to Luella in the early 90's. I didn't understand back then but seeing how the class photos were almost 100% white in 68 and then almost 100% black in 1970 was astounding. My neighbor was the first or second black in the neighborhood and she told me that when her son was caught talking to a white teenage girl by her father, that family literally moved out overnight. I'm sure that was pretty common at the time.

this link has a interesting take on white flight.

http://www.hanania.com/flight/flight.htm

The South Shore area of Chicago that at one time was one of the better areas of the city now has a lot of Section 8's and murders. A week does not go by that some one, many innocent people, gets killed there.

Pardon the pun, but this article is whitewashed bu11$hit. Nothing has changed all right -- that is, if you believe that Jeffery Manor averaged about 2 to 3 murders, 5 shootings, 50 robberies and 150 burglaries a year in the mid 1960s.

We should acknowledge that Jeffery Manor is no Englewood or Austin, and its residents can at least be thankful for that. But please don't ask us to pretend that the only thing that has changed in Jeffery Manor is the skin color of its residents. The quality of life in the neighborhood has changed too, and not necessarily for the better.

Azabache wrote:

My question is was there a difference in the time of selling or in the buyers. It is sad that the first two posters comments are as if all black people are one cohesive unit. I am sure in all white neighborhoods your trailer trash presents itself.
I bought my house on the westside from a white woman who did absolutely nothing to it. I have done upgrades of at least $1,000 a year every year since owing the place.
Did of you notice that it is the level of economics that makes the biggest difference in a neighborhood? The black woman was upset because Section 8 folks were moving in and probably bringing their bad manners with them.

It is the level of economics AND manners that affect neighborhoods. We have a very mixed neighborhood; black, white, hispanic, and East Indian. The only thing I really care about is: that they have the means and the wherewithall to take care of their house and are they good neighbors.

Unfortunately, when the banks gave out loans to a lot of marginally qualified people, they caused neighborhoods to decline because those people weren't ready or able to take care of a house. It is a lot of work to keep one up.

Look at the rest of the south side. What a spin on a story. When I grew up in Chicago there was no such thing as a drive by shooting. This story is pure fantasy. Most of Chicago is a dump.

I believe those people that went back to the old neighborhood are in dream land. Unfortunately the area has changed. If it was so safe there why did their bus have to have a Chicago Police escort?

Well actually crime has skyrocketed in these neighborhoods.

Memories are nice, but the reality is that many of those South Side neighborhoods are not places,, For that matter, I wouldn't return to the city ever, not even to the nice Northwest Side neighborhood where I lived. The taxes are too high and life is better out here.

South side Chicago is a very unsafe area, too many gangs, drugs, single parents, make it so. Glass instead of grass, no lawns either.

The bus had rose-colored windows...

Anybody else think that this is kind of twisted?("Hey, let's rent a bus and look at the colored folks living in our old neighborhood. Let's get out and pretend that we're friendly...then, we can get back into the bus and go home and brag about how progressive we are because we actually TALKED TO some African-Americans! Wow...won't THAT be FUN!!! If we're careful, they won't kill us!")

Azabache wrote:

My question is was there a difference in the time of selling or in the buyers. It is sad that the first two posters comments are as if all black people are one cohesive unit. I am sure in all white neighborhoods your trailer trash presents itself.
I bought my house on the westside from a white woman who did absolutely nothing to it. I have done upgrades of at least $1,000 a year every year since owing the place.
Did of you notice that it is the level of economics that makes the biggest difference in a neighborhood? The black woman was upset because Section 8 folks were moving in and probably bringing their bad manners with them.

Not necessarily. My grandparents were poor immigrants but the crime rate was low and they had to continually move as the neighborhoods changed. They are now some of the most dangerous areas in Chicago and have been for about 30 or 40 years.

These were people with the same income levels as my grandparents but their values were not the same.

Even the home my Grandpa owned on Justine - squatters moved in after he was assaulted (in the 70s) and then burned it to the ground. We owned the property but had to pay a water bill for squatters and the police were even afraid to go there. How can you say it has anything to do with $$? My grandpa was retired by that time. he lived on Social security so a few hundred a month and kept up his house.

Even Aberdeen in Chicago.. my mom's house. That neighborhood is terrifying. West Pullman.

We have always been poverty to lower middle class but you need to dump A HECK OF A LOT more than $1000 annually into a home.

As a white individual who grew up in poverty I can tell you that pride of ownership does not necessarily have EVERYTHING to do with money.

There are plenty of HOMEOWNERS making more money than we do that treat their homes worse.

In the predominantly white neighborhoods you will see hillbillies (in impoverished areas) but we still keep our homes up and do without things like new cars (or any cars), new televisions, designer clothes (we shop at thrift stores and have the same televisions we had in the 70s and 80s) and things like that.
Also, we work 2 and 3 jobs.

So I don't want to hear it. crime rates are still very much lower in the impoverished white areas.

Check statistics on that one.

There are good and bad people of every color it's true. But since a home is the only investment lower middle class has, we have to hold onto our investment or sell judging on what statistics have proven time and time again.

Were the "kids" in the market for some nice real estate around the old 95th & Jeffery neighborhood?

If so, why not get off the bus, walk around, and have the driver pick them up in a few hours. If not, why not?

I grew up between 1944 and 1962 in and around Kedzie & Congress; Van Buren & Kildare, Our Lady of Sorrows and Saint Mel Parishes; I don't need some cause driven Tribune reporter to tell me about what kind of "change" happened in Chicago's West and Southside neighborhoods.

More liberal b-llsh-t!

Jack Celtic

Rio Rancho, New Mexico