Pope stresses family values in Spain

I see the only traditional values the Church protects is the Pedophile priests...what a hypocrite

Mirta wrote:

I see the only traditional values the Church protects is the Pedophile priests...what a hypocrite

Mirta,

Do you have an opinion re: gay marriage ... or are you just bashing today?

Peace ... John

most paedophilia is practiced in the home by fathers or uncles or older brothers. the catholic church's ministerial population has its share of paedophiles but not more so than let's say, the Boy Scouts of America,the YMCA,the BarMitzva prep class and/or the Four H Club(some of these probably go in for bestiality too and I''l bet there are a lot of traumatized bovines in Kansas and the Dakotas,for instance, that you are not weeping about!). Hatred of the Catholic Church for political and ideological reasons goes back a long way in our country and that secular Republican Saint Abe Lincoln won the presidential nomination by allying himself with the No Nothing Party which advocated deporting all Catholics from the country. Anti -catholicism is actually as American as apple-pie! You,my dear and others of your ilk are the hypocrites,should the truth be told.

Actually it was good for the Pope to visit Spain. Having family values is a tradition thing with the Catholic Church. There is nothing wrong with the Pope voicing his opinions.

mirta:the pope is a free agent who may visit any country he wishes to as long as the country is agreeable. spain is a sovereign state with gay marriage,gay adoption,and fast track divorce but which also has freedom of speech. the pope was invited by catholics to address his views to catholics. just last week gay pride day was celebrated widely and conspicuously all over spain,causing serious inconveniences to many(traffic jams,etc etc). it is part of being tolerant! tralala is correct,maybe you are just anticatholic on principle.

elle-fa wrote:

mirta:the pope is a free agent who may visit any country he wishes to as long as the country is agreeable. spain is a sovereign state with gay marriage,gay adoption,and fast track divorce but which also has freedom of speech. the pope was invited by catholics to address his views to catholics. just last week gay pride day was celebrated widely and conspicuously all over spain,causing serious inconveniences to many(traffic jams,etc etc). it is part of being tolerant! tralala is correct,maybe you are just anticatholic on principle.

I agree mostly.. but let's not compare gay pride to the Pope's speech.. While both are freedoms of expression, one has never carried a message to deny anyone else equality, while the Pope is promoting just that..

A very important difference.. regardless of how he genuinely feels about it.. Let him speak, but his message should be condemned, just as we should condemn the speech of a KKK leader who genuinely feels that the white race is superior. Let them speak, but use your freedom of expression to condemn their message...

White race is superior?
Heterosexuality is superior?

both are shameful expressions, and should be called such..

Rob in NY wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree mostly.. but let's not compare gay pride to the Pope's speech.. While both are freedoms of expression, one has never carried a message to deny anyone else equality, while the Pope is promoting just that..
A very important difference.. regardless of how he genuinely feels about it.. Let him speak, but his message should be condemned, just as we should condemn the speech of a KKK leader who genuinely feels that the white race is superior. Let them speak, but use your freedom of expression to condemn their message...
White race is superior?
Heterosexuality is superior?
both are shameful expressions, and should be called such..

thanks rob for reading and commenting what I wrote. nowhere in the pope's message is the statement that heterosexuality is superior. he asks catholics to defend catholicism's idea of the family by living within certain bounds. only catholics.
if I used your reasoning I would object to "gay pride". after all,we do not have "hetero pride day" in which we proclaim the superiority of heterosexual sex over any other sort and celebrate what is ,after all, as much our choice as our eye colour. I am not proud of having blue eyes or of my sexual preferences. I was born with them.

to be a practicing catholic is a matter of choice.,the exercise of free will,a personal decision,not chromosome dictated
and ,of course,you have every right to urge people not to become practicing catholics if you view the practice of their religion as a threat to you. it would only be that were it enforced by a secular law and army,you know. and ,fortunately,that hasn't been the case for many years now,no matter how Catholicism(and every other religion) erred in the past!!

I am far more concerned about the militant fundamentalist christian attitude towards gays and the pat robertsons of this world.

laslo hound-dog wrote:

<quoted text>
thanks rob for reading and commenting what I wrote. nowhere in the pope's message is the statement that heterosexuality is superior. he asks catholics to defend catholicism's idea of the family by living within certain bounds. only catholics.
if I used your reasoning I would object to "gay pride". after all,we do not have "hetero pride day" in which we proclaim the superiority of heterosexual sex over any other sort and celebrate what is ,after all, as much our choice as our eye colour. I am not proud of having blue eyes or of my sexual preferences. I was born with them.
to be a practicing catholic is a matter of choice.,the exercise of free will,a personal decision,not chromosome dictated
and ,of course,you have every right to urge people not to become practicing catholics if you view the practice of their religion as a threat to you. it would only be that were it enforced by a secular law and army,you know. and ,fortunately,that hasn't been the case for many years now,no matter how Catholicism(and every other religion) erred in the past!!
I am far more concerned about the militant fundamentalist christian attitude towards gays and the pat robertsons of this world.

laslo hound-dog wrote:

<quoted text>
thanks rob for reading and commenting what I wrote. nowhere in the pope's message is the statement that heterosexuality is superior. he asks catholics to defend catholicism's idea of the family by living within certain bounds. only catholics.

Fundamentalist Catholics, just as fundamentalists of any religion use the “abomination” quote of Leviticus to say just that... If homosexuality is an abomination to them, and heterosexuality is not, then it is not a stretch to say they feel heterosexuality is superior, is it not? And if his Highness didn’t feel that way, then he wouldn’t instigate bans on gays from the priesthood. He is a bigot, based on his beliefs, and that is how it is..

If he were directing his words about marriage only to Catholics it would be alright. But he is not just urging Catholics to live by his interpretations, he is urging them to oppose equal treatment for us in any country considering legalizing our unions. If you feel they didn’t try to influence the changes in Spain and Canada, you aren’t being honest with yourself or us.

laslo hound-dog wrote:

<quoted text>
if I used your reasoning I would object to "gay pride". after all,we do not have "hetero pride day" in which we proclaim the superiority of heterosexual sex over any other sort and celebrate what is ,after all, as much our choice as our eye colour. I am not proud of having blue eyes or of my sexual preferences. I was born with them..

There is no need for heterosexual pride day b/c heterosexuals were never taught to be ashamed for who they were. They haven’t had a negative message crammed down their throats all their lives, nor have they been denied basic rights just because they were heterosexual... However, if you really feel the need for a hetero pride parade, organize one.. We will likely march with you to give you our support... Will you do the same for us?

laslo hound-dog wrote:

<quoted text>
I am far more concerned about the militant fundamentalist christian attitude towards gays and the pat robertsons of this world.

Few people take Pat Robertson seriously. He is a nut, and is regarded as such. The Pope on the other hand has enormous influence still. Believe me, the Pope is more a threat than the Pat and Jerry roadshow..

Except when did hate become a family value? He is preaching hatred of my family. And he is not voicing his opinion, he is trying to mobilize his faithful to promote this hatred in a country that has decided to treat all of it's citizens and their families as equal.

Wicks wrote:

Actually it was good for the Pope to visit Spain. Having family values is a tradition thing with the Catholic Church. There is nothing wrong with the Pope voicing his opinions.

She stated her opinion. Family values are about more than just hating gays, it is also about protecting our children. Your church doesn't have a very good track record on that. That is her opinion. You don't like it, well that doesn't make it just bashing. Besides hate is not a family value that is taught by Christ, but it is one taught by your pope. The hatred for me and my family. That is my opinion and a fact. Not just bashing. And you are here to support this again? Or just deny that it is true?

Crance wrote:

<quoted text>
Mirta,
Do you have an opinion re: gay marriage ... or are you just bashing today?
Peace ... John

Tim wrote:

She stated her opinion. Family values are about more than just hating gays, it is also about protecting our children. Your church doesn't have a very good track record on that. That is her opinion. You don't like it, well that doesn't make it just bashing. Besides hate is not a family value that is taught by Christ, but it is one taught by your pope. The hatred for me and my family. That is my opinion and a fact. Not just bashing. And you are here to support this again? Or just deny that it is true?
<quoted text>

Mirta's quote:

"the only traditional values the Church protects is the Pedophile priests" is not an opinion ... it is a lie.

If you are honest with yourself, you will agree!

Peace ... John

Nope, it is an opinion. You just don't like it. And you say you support free speech. Grow up John you hypocrite.

Crance wrote:

<quoted text>
Mirta's quote:
"the only traditional values the Church protects is the Pedophile priests" is not an opinion ... it is a lie.
If you are honest with yourself, you will agree!
Peace ... John

Tim wrote:

Nope, it is an opinion. You just don't like it. And you say you support free speech. Grow up John you hypocrite.
<quoted text>

So Tim,

Can you say that the RCC 's ONLY traditional values are related to hiding pedophile priests ... Do you actually believe that?

Is 1 + 1 = 2 an opinion?

Tim, I have never resorted to calling you names, and I never will.
Why do you think that helps your position?

Peace ... John

Of course the Pope is going to ask people to endorse traditionally family values.

Gays are challenging and trying to upset thousands of years of social customs and morals. Naturally people are going to bash them. In the eyes of the majority, homosexuality is a devient behaviour that is considered unacceptable, something that goes against nature.

In these forums, I see the gays using the very same tatics in their posts that they are condemning in those that do not agree with their lifestyle. Yet they lable those that disagree with them hypocrites.

Challenging a person's beliefs only stirs resentment, not compassion and acceptance. Like many others, I am unwilling to prostitute my values because some group of people whose values are contradictory to my own demand my symapthy and acceptance. I just isn't going to happen.

Each is entitled to their own feelings, emotions and opinions, but we must all realize that your rights do not entitle you to infringe on mine.

Bashing is what catholics seem to do best these days..at least that is what the Pope seems to do! The catholic church bashed jews for centuries..and now since they can't do that anymore without looking like fools they bash gay people. This Pope like the one who preceded him is a bigoted, vile human being who has no social redeeming value. The church did protect pedophile priests. This is a fact so it is not bashing to continue to point out the bad things this church has done in ths world and continues to do. Until the church learns humility and kindness it will continue to be critized by thinking and caring human beings.

Crance wrote:

<quoted text>
Mirta,
Do you have an opinion re: gay marriage ... or are you just bashing today?
Peace ... John

The catholic church is infringing on my liberty by spreading lies about gay and lesbian people. The catholic church lied for years about jews......and now they are doing the same thing to gay and lesbian people. If you want to be a bigot then be one...but don't be surprised when others call you on this and point out what a mean sprited person you are to treat gay and lesbian people like the catholic church does. I am sorry you are embarassed for having your poor family values called into question, but religious people are not above the law.

Retired2005 wrote:

Of course the Pope is going to ask people to endorse traditionally family values.
Gays are challenging and trying to upset thousands of years of social customs and morals. Naturally people are going to bash them. In the eyes of the majority, homosexuality is a devient behaviour that is considered unacceptable, something that goes against nature.
In these forums, I see the gays using the very same tatics in their posts that they are condemning in those that do not agree with their lifestyle. Yet they lable those that disagree with them hypocrites.
Challenging a person's beliefs only stirs resentment, not compassion and acceptance. Like many others, I am unwilling to prostitute my values because some group of people whose values are contradictory to my own demand my symapthy and acceptance. I just isn't going to happen.
Each is entitled to their own feelings, emotions and opinions, but we must all realize that your rights do not entitle you to infringe on mine.

It is also acceptable behavior to tell you that the Pope knows nothing about gay and lesbian people, and that what he says is on parr with what Hitler did to the jews during the 1930's in Germany. I guess you would have been just as enthralled to have had Hitler come talk too.

elle-fa wrote:

mirta:the pope is a free agent who may visit any country he wishes to as long as the country is agreeable. spain is a sovereign state with gay marriage,gay adoption,and fast track divorce but which also has freedom of speech. the pope was invited by catholics to address his views to catholics. just last week gay pride day was celebrated widely and conspicuously all over spain,causing serious inconveniences to many(traffic jams,etc etc). it is part of being tolerant! tralala is correct,maybe you are just anticatholic on principle.

I still can't see what a bunch of celibate men and women can have to say about family life. They've abdicated out of family life by choosing to marry God. As far as I remember he only had one child and is unlikely to have any more with his current 'spouses'.

If we all lived like the Catholic clergy, the human race wouldn't last very long ...

Bernard wrote:

Bashing is what catholics seem to do best these days..at least that is what the Pope seems to do! The catholic church bashed jews for centuries..and now since they can't do that anymore without looking like fools they bash gay people. This Pope like the one who preceded him is a bigoted, vile human being who has no social redeeming value. The church did protect pedophile priests. This is a fact so it is not bashing to continue to point out the bad things this church has done in ths world and continues to do. Until the church learns humility and kindness it will continue to be critized by thinking and caring human beings.
<quoted text>

Bernard,

Yes we have been getting points for 2,000 years for bashing.

If you rack up a certain amount (it's a secret number I am unable to disclose) you get a free pass to heaven.(you don't even have to stop in at Purgatory)

So, if you are any kind of minority, I'd stay away from big cities and anywhere there's a lot of money, cause you know how rich we Catholics are!

Peace ... John :):):)

Bernard wrote:

The catholic church is infringing on my liberty by spreading lies about gay and lesbian people. The catholic church lied for years about jews......and now they are doing the same thing to gay and lesbian people. If you want to be a bigot then be one...but don't be surprised when others call you on this and point out what a mean sprited person you are to treat gay and lesbian people like the catholic church does. I am sorry you are embarassed for having your poor family values called into question, but religious people are not above the law.
<quoted text>

Yes Bernard,

I forgot to tell you, the Church is running a special this year on gay and lesbian bashing.

Actually it's a 2 for 1, so if you bash 1 gay man and 1 lesbian, you get the same amount of points as if you had bashed 2 gay men and 2 lesbians.

We're really excited about the program, cause we've just now found out that if you exceed your lifetime required points (to get a free pass to heaven), you can now apply the excess to other family members.

So, as you might expect, we're bashing more than ever. We've got to make hay while the sun shines. You never know when the Pope might issue an infallible statement that will shut down the whole program!

Peace ... John