Ancient Egypt vs. Modern Egypt

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Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#1 Oct 17, 2007
Do Modern Egyptians take credit for Ancient Egypt. Do they realize that the people that are in Egypt is because Islam, colonialism, and European immigration. That the TRUE Egyptian are of a BROWN color and that they are Nubian in the Upper Egypt. Don't they know the very Nile River that has sustained their countries originates from the bowels of Sub-Saharan Africa. Do Egyptian really give credit to Black people or do they discriminate against them and seek to lighten their skin so the can become lighter. Real Egyptians aren't Arabs they are AFRICANS. I know of Egyptians that swear up and down that they are not Africans. So please try to bridge the gap of understanding. I hope that Ali Baba of Egypt thinks that his forefathers had a share in Ancient Egyptian society.

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angel pegola

New York, NY

#2 Nov 5, 2007
you sshould understand what you are saying before you write it you have offended me and my people

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#3 Nov 5, 2007
Well I don't know who you are. And I asked a question. If you can't answer it you should post somewhere else. I have come to conclusion that most Arab Egyptians believe that their people built the Pyramids. LIES! This further away from the Truth. Egypt wouldn't speak Arabic if it weren't for the spread of Islam. It is offensive to my people that Europeans and Arabic ransack and steal Black African culture and history by colonization and slavery. This includes Egypt.
KELEOBATRA

Egypt

#4 Nov 6, 2007
I THINK YOU ARE SO WRONG; NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T SPEAK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS' LANGUAGE THIS WILL MEAN WE AREN'T EGYPTIANS . WITH TIME THINGS CAN BE CHANGED IN ANY SOCIETY BUT THE ROOTS ARE STILL THERE SO DEEP AND SPEAKING ARABIC OR BEING MUSLIMS&CHRISTIANS DOESN'T MEAN WE AREN'T EGYPTIANS. OUR GRANDFATHERS ARE THOSE WHO BUILT PYAMIDS AND THAT'S THE FACT . PLUS ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WEREN'T BLACK OUR COLOR IS ALAWYS THE SAME NOT AFRICAN BLACK &NOT EUROPEAN WHITE AFTER ALL WE DIDN'T STEAL ANY AFRICAN TREASURES BECAUSE OUR TREASURES BELONGS TO ONLY ONE PLACE "EGYPT" . AND THE NILE EXTENDS IN MANY OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE YOUR OWN TREASURES .
scot34

Cairo, Egypt

#5 Nov 6, 2007
you are looking at a culture with an eye of a completely different culture. white/black/brown criteria doesnt exist in egypt. it is not like other places where your skin color plays a role in who you are and who you function in society.
There is also no identiy crisis in Egypt, i dunno where have you dreamt your post from.
You seem to have limited understanding of the egyptian culture/people. I would urge you to do some reading you will be amazed at what you will know.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#6 Nov 6, 2007
KELEOBATRA wrote:
I THINK YOU ARE SO WRONG; NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T SPEAK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS' LANGUAGE THIS WILL MEAN WE AREN'T EGYPTIANS . WITH TIME THINGS CAN BE CHANGED IN ANY SOCIETY BUT THE ROOTS ARE STILL THERE SO DEEP AND SPEAKING ARABIC OR BEING MUSLIMS&CHRISTIANS DOESN'T MEAN WE AREN'T EGYPTIANS. OUR GRANDFATHERS ARE THOSE WHO BUILT PYAMIDS AND THAT'S THE FACT . PLUS ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WEREN'T BLACK OUR COLOR IS ALAWYS THE SAME NOT AFRICAN BLACK &NOT EUROPEAN WHITE AFTER ALL WE DIDN'T STEAL ANY AFRICAN TREASURES BECAUSE OUR TREASURES BELONGS TO ONLY ONE PLACE "EGYPT" . AND THE NILE EXTENDS IN MANY OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE YOUR OWN TREASURES .
You obviously have never read a history book. Since my speciality is in North Africa and the Middle East then I can speak with authority on this. You are horribly misguided to believe that Arab Egyptians were the ones that built the pyramids. It is like saying that White Americans are native to America, NOT! There was no Arab presence in Egypt until the 9th century when Islam was spread into Africa. If you look at all the antiquity of Egypt and Ancient Egyptian self-portrayal and pictorialization they were people of color. And if you were to also look at the Nubians of the South and similar ethnic groups they are Black Africans not Arabs, and not White. What see in Egypt today especially in lower Egypt is Arabs and European immigrants to a land that is not theirs. Seriously, you should read the History of the Arab World by Hourani. Arabs did not build the pyramids in Egypt or even contribute something of worth to Egyptian antiquity. This is fallacious. I am sorry if you want to remain under the guile, but truth is Egypt doesn't belong to Arabs, but rather to the Nilo-Saharan people and the Cushites. The indigenous Egyptians are Nubians and not Arabs and not Arabized Nubians. The Nile flows from Ethiopia and Uganda down to Egypt. Ethiopia had their empire and history which pre-date Egyptian society! Also I can assume that you are not aware of the Sudanic kingdoms also such Meroe (The Pharoah's getaway spot) in Northern Sudan. Sorry to break it to Masriyun, but the only thing your people brought to Egypt was camels, Islam, Arabic, and shwarma.

Another thing.... "Egypt" is in AFRICA. Egypt is African. Recognize this. Therefore the treasures that Egypt possesses is African. Unlike the rest of North Africa, Egyptians were a people of color. It is historically proven. I can type for days on this, because I have spent hours reading about it. But it is up to you educate yourself on the cornerstone of the Black African antiquity, Ancient Egypt.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#7 Nov 6, 2007
scot34 wrote:
you are looking at a culture with an eye of a completely different culture. white/black/brown criteria doesnt exist in egypt. it is not like other places where your skin color plays a role in who you are and who you function in society.
There is also no identiy crisis in Egypt, i dunno where have you dreamt your post from.
You seem to have limited understanding of the egyptian culture/people. I would urge you to do some reading you will be amazed at what you will know.
I have! That is why it perturbs me that another thing that belongs to Black Africa has been stolen by foreigners. There are race issues in Egypt. Egyptian President Anwar Sadat was half-Sudanese, and in his biography he never mentions his mother or his Black heritage. Also the US wanted to do a film on Sadat's life, they casted a Black American actor to play the role of Anwar Sadat and the Egyptian government vehemently opposed the production and its distribution in Egypt. Racism may not be as out in the open as it is in America. But it is there in Egypt, just like another Arabized nation. Just because Arabs have had a knack for sweeping their problems under the rug doesn't mean they don't exist. Race is definitely an issue. If you look at a billboard in Cairo you can see a woman advertising for skin lightening cream. Come on now!!! If that doesn't say something I don't know what does. Also I have a friend while in Egypt (she is very fair skinned) would be told by Egyptian women, I love your skin color.. I wish mine was a pretty as yours. Most Egyptians aren't that dark, they are tan (Arabs) to Black (Egyptians). There are plenty more examples I could show you but I don't have the energy to type them all. So since you live in Egypt I hope that you decide to investigate these issues.

Here are some starting points, this is an article of a Afro-Latin man that compares the subtle racism of Arab societies with that of Latin America.

http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp...

Here is a general article of Arab Racism of Black Africans,

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare1.com/Articles...

There is more out there.. You just have search out and read it. Because Egyptian government just like any other Arabic Islamic government is not going to highlight or bring attention to race issues in the country. Egypt is African, Ancient Egypt were Nilo-Saharan people and Cushites aka Black people (Brown skin)- Similar to Nubians and Ethiopians.
eric small

Trinidad and Tobago

#8 Nov 26, 2007
i live in the Caribbean Trinidad to be precise i am trying to find African (black) people in Egypt. where are they? i mean after the Arab invasion. which part of Egypt did they migrate to? are the all gone? or have they been absorbed so deep into Arab ethnicity that they are lost. by modern terms what tribes would they be classified as? e.g Masai, yahroba, Ibo. P.S love your work

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#9 Nov 26, 2007
eric small wrote:
i live in the Caribbean Trinidad to be precise i am trying to find African (black) people in Egypt. where are they? i mean after the Arab invasion. which part of Egypt did they migrate to? are the all gone? or have they been absorbed so deep into Arab ethnicity that they are lost. by modern terms what tribes would they be classified as? e.g Masai, yahroba, Ibo. P.S love your work
Most of the Black Egyptians, but that I mean tan to brown Egyptians of color were absorbed into Arab society. Inter-mixing and so forth. The Nubians in lower Egypt are great example of Black Egyptians still living there. I mean it so tricky with Egypt because of its position on the Mediterranean, this place would be home to immigrants and captive of others from the Middle East. But we have historical evidence, i.e. hieroglyphics and etc that clearly show that Egyptians weren't White but they had color. So a people having some sort of color and being in Africa would presume that they are African. They are just a different shade of Black. But by NO means Egyptians were Arabs! What a travesty. I tell what the Egyptians were doing was a enslaving darker-skinned Africans until the Europeans stepped in.

There is so much factual information out there. All we have to do is read. I suggest that people go onto JSTOR, Proquest, EBSCO.. These are academic journal web-engines that help in the topic of Arab conquest in Africa and the Arab Slave Trade. Real Egyptians aren't Arabs. Case closed.
RamesesII

AOL

#10 Nov 26, 2007
Ass-wad (teezak hamra, mish aswad): The cornerstone of your argument is that because a nation is geographically situated in Africa, and most people in Africa are black, that the ancient Egyptians were black. This is illogical. It is like saying that Iranians are of the same stock as the asian Chinese, because Iran is in Asia. To say that the only "real" Egyptians are the darker ones in upper Egypt and the Nubians is ridiculous. The Copts of middle and Upper Egypt have not mixed with the Arabs or most other invaders for the most part, and do not look like the nubians or most other African peoples. They (we) look like the people depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. If you don't believe this, I will show you a picture of me, my family and my enormous schlong (j/k, it is really only 10 inches, and don't use this fact to link us Egyptians to your "brothas"). Have you ever been to Egypt and met Copts? If so, you will know that we are a unique people, with quite a bit of variability in appearance within ourselves, but neither black, nor white nor anything else except for Egyptian.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#11 Nov 26, 2007
RamesesII wrote:
Ass-wad (teezak hamra, mish aswad): The cornerstone of your argument is that because a nation is geographically situated in Africa, and most people in Africa are black, that the ancient Egyptians were black. This is illogical. It is like saying that Iranians are of the same stock as the asian Chinese, because Iran is in Asia. To say that the only "real" Egyptians are the darker ones in upper Egypt and the Nubians is ridiculous. The Copts of middle and Upper Egypt have not mixed with the Arabs or most other invaders for the most part, and do not look like the nubians or most other African peoples. They (we) look like the people depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. If you don't believe this, I will show you a picture of me, my family and my enormous schlong (j/k, it is really only 10 inches, and don't use this fact to link us Egyptians to your "brothas"). Have you ever been to Egypt and met Copts? If so, you will know that we are a unique people, with quite a bit of variability in appearance within ourselves, but neither black, nor white nor anything else except for Egyptian.
(t'araf la shay, Ana aswad wa al-masr bilad ifriqi laisa arabi)Obviously you didn't understand my argument. It was the other way around. Egyptians were of color, since they were of color unlike the Berber of North Africa, then Egypt would classify as Black Africa unlike Berber North Africa. Obviously you don't read. I don't have the energy to waste my time with you. Yes there is variation in the Ancient Egyptian. But looking at most hieroglyphics the Egyptian portrayed themselves with color, from tan brown to black.. NOT WHITE nor of ARAB. Qubti are light to brown.. They are definitely not Arab. But the Qubti are not the ones who built the ahramat!!! Stop refuting plain evidence, you have probably been to the Cairo museum.. The statues and hieroglyphics are nothing but BROWN and BLACK. To say otherwise would be sheer stupidity of which you are exuding.
So again.. EGYPTIANS had brown to dark brown skin, since EGYPT is in AFRICA.. By definition ancient Egyptians would be Black Africans unlike the fair skinned Berbers of North Africa.
I really don't want to link Modern-day Egyptians to my "brothas" because your people are descendants of Arabs which enslaved Black Africans for 14 centuries. Modern Egyptians Arabs enslaved Black Africans.. So NO, you guys aren't black. But Egypt is part of the colored continent of Africa. Just think about the Nile extends from the heart of Black Africa, what make you think that Blacks stayed in Ethiopia or Uganda and never settled along the Nile.. Some how miraculously they never settle in lower Egypt. INSANITY. Also if you know any of Egyptian antiquity, that Nubians actually assumed power in Ancient Egypt in some instances. Well I encourage you to research. That is what I do.. If you want to present a point try not to be racist kama al-arab ila as-sud.
RamesesII

AOL

#12 Dec 4, 2007
Aswad wrote:
<quoted text>
(t'araf la shay, Ana aswad wa al-masr bilad ifriqi laisa arabi)Obviously you didn't understand my argument. It was the other way around. Egyptians were of color, since they were of color unlike the Berber of North Africa, then Egypt would classify as Black Africa unlike Berber North Africa. Obviously you don't read. I don't have the energy to waste my time with you. Yes there is variation in the Ancient Egyptian. But looking at most hieroglyphics the Egyptian portrayed themselves with color, from tan brown to black.. NOT WHITE nor of ARAB. Qubti are light to brown.. They are definitely not Arab. But the Qubti are not the ones who built the ahramat!!! Stop refuting plain evidence, you have probably been to the Cairo museum.. The statues and hieroglyphics are nothing but BROWN and BLACK. To say otherwise would be sheer stupidity of which you are exuding.
So again.. EGYPTIANS had brown to dark brown skin, since EGYPT is in AFRICA.. By definition ancient Egyptians would be Black Africans unlike the fair skinned Berbers of North Africa.
I really don't want to link Modern-day Egyptians to my "brothas" because your people are descendants of Arabs which enslaved Black Africans for 14 centuries. Modern Egyptians Arabs enslaved Black Africans.. So NO, you guys aren't black. But Egypt is part of the colored continent of Africa. Just think about the Nile extends from the heart of Black Africa, what make you think that Blacks stayed in Ethiopia or Uganda and never settled along the Nile.. Some how miraculously they never settle in lower Egypt. INSANITY. Also if you know any of Egyptian antiquity, that Nubians actually assumed power in Ancient Egypt in some instances. Well I encourage you to research. That is what I do.. If you want to present a point try not to be racist kama al-arab ila as-sud.
Ass-wad--The BASIS of your argument is flawed. Again, you make the ASSUMPTION that any people indigenous to Africa must be a black race. Please refer back to my comments regardin the people of asia in my last post and you should (if you have any intelligence) see the fatal flaw of your argument. You yourself mentioned the Berbers, who are native to Africa, and that they are not black. Why are they the exception to the rule? If they are, then why could the ancient Egyptians also not be black? My ancestors DID engineer and help build Al Ahram, Luxor, AbuSimbel and most other great monuments still standing in Egypt. DNA analysis comparing genetic markers have shown that ancient Egyptian mummies share more affinity with the modern Copt than any other modern people. This is SCIENCE--perhaps you should educate yourself with regard to this discipline rather than the Afrocentic ravings of the pseudoscholars you are a disciple of. The ancient Egyptians were probably darker, in general than modern Egyptians, both because of subsequent invasions by non-africans as well as largely because they spent more time outdoors working in the sun! If you go to upper Egypt, the rural people there are still very tan in general. But this is not only genetics, as with the blacks of subsaharan africa. It is environmentally induced melanin production as a result of sun exposure.
RamesesII

AOL

#13 Dec 4, 2007
By the way, Ass-wad--the Copts have no more Arab blood in them than you do. If they did, they would not still be Copts, because they would have NECESSARILY had to convert to Islam, and conversion BACK to christianity from Islam is illegal in Egypt and in the past was punishable by death. So blow me.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#14 Dec 5, 2007
RamesesII wrote:
<quoted text>
Ass-wad--The BASIS of your argument is flawed. Again, you make the ASSUMPTION that any people indigenous to Africa must be a black race. Please refer back to my comments regardin the people of asia in my last post and you should (if you have any intelligence) see the fatal flaw of your argument. You yourself mentioned the Berbers, who are native to Africa, and that they are not black. Why are they the exception to the rule? If they are, then why could the ancient Egyptians also not be black? My ancestors DID engineer and help build Al Ahram, Luxor, AbuSimbel and most other great monuments still standing in Egypt. DNA analysis comparing genetic markers have shown that ancient Egyptian mummies share more affinity with the modern Copt than any other modern people. This is SCIENCE--perhaps you should educate yourself with regard to this discipline rather than the Afrocentic ravings of the pseudoscholars you are a disciple of. The ancient Egyptians were probably darker, in general than modern Egyptians, both because of subsequent invasions by non-africans as well as largely because they spent more time outdoors working in the sun! If you go to upper Egypt, the rural people there are still very tan in general. But this is not only genetics, as with the blacks of subsaharan africa. It is environmentally induced melanin production as a result of sun exposure.
Are you Coptic or Arabic? And the play-on with my name is old, childish, and plain ignorant. You are not Rameses nor will you ever be. I have never degraded myself to make crude pubescent play-ons with your name. Also I am not an Afrocentrist and I don't read Afrocentric material. I am getting my MA in Applied Linguistics and Anthropology at a prestigious university in California. I have given you my sources of information in my last post so refer to those. Like I said, apart from your misconceptions about Africa.. You have somewhat proved my point. Yes, Egyptians were of color and the Sub-Saharan Africans were of color because of genetics that allows pigmentation. But Berbers are indigenous to Africa and I don't claim them to be Black.. So as you see my logic still stands. A colored people on the content of Africa are Black Africans. You can be light Brown to Charcoal you are Black African. Northern Berbers are Light-skinned/White Africans and I am fine with it.

I am not going waste my time with you. I have already defeated your argument and I have tons of Academic journals people that publish from recognized institutions writing on the matter of Egyptology.

And how pretentious are you to assume that I am Afrocentrist. Does one that believes that Egypt isn't Caucasian nor Arabic means that I am Afrocentrist? Should I be a Eurocentrist and you'll respect my opinions.. That is racist! I tell you what I am a Fact-centrist. And the historical evidence doesn't support neither Eurocentrism or Afrocentrism. Ancient Egyptians are a Nilo-Saharan people of African origins belong to the colored people of Africa unlike the Northern Berber. Really to argue with me on this would prove your incapability to reason and accept sound arguments.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#15 Dec 5, 2007
RamesesII wrote:
By the way, Ass-wad--the Copts have no more Arab blood in them than you do. If they did, they would not still be Copts, because they would have NECESSARILY had to convert to Islam, and conversion BACK to christianity from Islam is illegal in Egypt and in the past was punishable by death. So blow me.
You are stupid. My post wasn't about Copts. And yes Arabs enslaved you guys too. Read a book. I am actually not going to respond to anymore of your futile, unintelligent, despicable reasonings or covert sexual advances. You are a perve.... Seriously get a life and read scholarly books and then come back and talk to me.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#16 Dec 5, 2007
RamesesII wrote:
<quoted text>
Ass-wad--The BASIS of your argument is flawed. Again, you make the ASSUMPTION that any people indigenous to Africa must be a black race. If you go to upper Egypt, the rural people there are still very tan in general. But this is not only genetics, as with the blacks of subsaharan africa. It is environmentally induced melanin production as a result of sun exposure.
Also I wanted to highlight this. I never said that all Africans are Black. Because obviously we know from antiquity that Northern Berbers were light-skinned "White" Africans. They are indigenous to North-west Africa. On the other hang, Egyptians have been pictorially portrayed as people of color and it's position in Africa warrants that colored Africans wouldn't be estranged from Egypt like the rest of Africa. The latter part of your quote proves my point. I am just bewildered why to why you don't understand.
RamesesII

AOL

#18 Dec 5, 2007
Aswad wrote:
<quoted text>
Also I wanted to highlight this. I never said that all Africans are Black. Because obviously we know from antiquity that Northern Berbers were light-skinned "White" Africans. They are indigenous to North-west Africa. On the other hang, Egyptians have been pictorially portrayed as people of color and it's position in Africa warrants that colored Africans wouldn't be estranged from Egypt like the rest of Africa. The latter part of your quote proves my point. I am just bewildered why to why you don't understand.
Ass-wad--you know you love it baby LOL... moron.
I am not degrading myself by throwing childish insults at you...I am informing you that you are a fool...
Why is it that people like you always try to draw a dividing line between people? There are dark Berbers, and there were light ancient Egyptians. This can be seen today and in ancient pictorial depictions of my ancestors. There is VARIABILITY within one nationality. I am fully aware of the injustices toward the Copts by Egyptian Muslims--but they did not enslave my people, this is false. There were restrictions placed on what jobs Copts could hold, whether they could build new churches, and in the past Copts had to pay a Jizya tax imposed on them and other Dhimmi (non-muslims). This may be considered oppression, but this is not slavery. If you are so fact-based, however, you would not be able to ignore genetic evidence which shows that modern Copts are the direct descendants of the ancient Egyptians. There is no debating this. If you have been to Egypt, you would know that the Copts are not "black"-- though there are dark and light skinned Copts, our features are distinctive and much different from other African peoples. Therefore, you would finally be able to realize that the direct descendants of the ancient Egyptians--and thus the ancient Egyptians themselves--are not/were not the same "people of color" you think they are. I get the impression you have not seen the berbers or the Copts in real life--you should probably go do this before you write anything else.
RamesesII

AOL

#19 Dec 5, 2007
My point is, you are drawing an absolute dividing line between "people of color" and "white" people--unfortunately, in the world of natural science it doesn't work like this. You are applying modern racist cultural constructs of colored vs non-colored to indigenous popluations. This is why I do not see the "logic" of your argument--it is not based on science but on an arbitrary dividing line you are drawing between people. Imagine this--there may be a Berber (whom you stated was a white african) who has EXTREMELY dark skin tone, much darker than that of a genuine Ancient Egyptian, or Modern, unmixed Copt. Based on your logic, then, this Berber is not a Berber because of his skin pigmentation--damn his familial/genetic/cultural ties to the rest of the Berbers. But what about someone slightly lighter than this first Berber? Where do you classify him? My point is, there is variability WITHIN an ethnic group, and OVERLAP of traits such as skin color, hair texture, nose width BETWEEN different ethnic groups. These dividing lines are cultural rather than genetic, scientific constructs. You didn't defeat anything...your argument has no legs to stand on if you think objectively.

Since: May 07

Anaheim, CA

#20 Dec 5, 2007
I am done speaking with you. I don't respond to imbeciles. To restate all that I have said would be waste of time. My point/arguments still stands and your disrespect shows nothing severe lack of maturity.
RamesesII

AOL

#21 Dec 6, 2007
Well Ass-wad (Teezak HAMRA, mish Aswad)-- this "imbecile" is a true Egyptian of the purest blood, which dates back to the great uniter of Upper and Lower Egypt. This "imbecile" is a descendant of those who built the great culture which you would claim for your ancestors, but never was. The COPTS are the progeny of KEMET, not African-Americans, any other Subsaharan or European people. Take a sample of my DNA (you may find some on your sister's chin) and compare it to that of a pharaohnic mummy, and I guarantee there will be more homology than with yours. This is science, and has been indisputably proven.
Ilhas teezy.

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