Another example of Islamic injustice - Hanged 17yr old girl

DaneToo wrote:

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Thanks .. I am well ... going back to work tomorrow after a loooooooooooooooooong time off with an injury .... and sorry I replied to something you posted back then ... I should've used "window wipers" on my glasses before sitting down yesterday to write .. LOL

Hope your well ... and I do think, to use Lusen's terminology, that we have turned a corner .. progressed with everyone since 4-5 weeks ago now ..

Now gotta go .. have personal training session at gym, taking cat to vet and acupuncture too this afternoon ... LOL .. so real busy last day off work ... at least for a while until holidays come up ..

Yep alhamdulillah we did turn a corner.Are you a personal trainer?? I love cats too we used to have a siamese cat.

Widad wrote:

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Of course there is no compulsion in religion ,but I do have a question ,no offense meant but as a very knowledgeable man do u honestly believe that The Almighty God,The Creator of the universe,needed to have a son to pay for the crimes of humanity???

Of course he did not. It's a message, a symbol. I'm one of those Christians who don't even believe in the 'miracles' like 'waking on water', and so on.
God gave us a conscience, an inherited knowledge of what's right and wrong. The life of Christ is a reminder to stick to it. It is a set of powerful symbols to keep us true to that conscience.
The crucification and his ressurection are symbols of liberation from death, the promess that we will live on in His grace.

Widad wrote:

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Why would the Almighty God have a physical son,when all He needs to do is say Be and its done!!

Christ is the physical son of Jezus & Mary. The 'spriritual son' symbol is an allusion to the fact we are all children of God. And to answer your question: why would he need to write a book? Why not his message permanently in the sky?

Widad wrote:

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Geert,I told you before that I am here not to call anybody to Islam but my issue is calling to the belief in the Oneness of The One God.

I believe in the oneness of the One God.
Basically, all Christians do. The holy trinity stands for the fact that Jezus is recognized as something more than just a man. He's our saviour (not God), our guide blessed by the 'holy spirit', who became 'one with God', which is our ultimate goal: becoming 'one with His Love in heaven'. Symbols, Widad.

Widad wrote:

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All good people are going to heaven whether they were muslims,christians or jews as long as thye worship the One Creator and associate no partners to Him.

All you have to do is search more...not in the Quran and not in Islam...PLEASE open your eyes and search for the TRUTH you will find it,learn the language of the original scriptures and SEE for your self how changed the talmud and bible are.

peace,widad

Of course they changed, Widad, and learning the language of all the scripts just too much for my given talents.:-) It's not even that important for me as a Christian, knowing that important gospels, like the gospel of Mary Magdalena, were almost entirely lost.
And remember, Widad: the Qur'an changed too, even according to Muslim scolars. According to them, the original collection of Sunnas by Uthman, is still a _collection_ of texts made approx. 20 years after the prophet died (as you know, the Qur'an is not even in chronological order). Even of this collection, many Muslim scolars claim no originals remain and it is unproven that all sunnas are in this collection.
Moreover, the original Qur'an did not contain diacritical marks, so there is another difference.'Evil tongues' told me that the 72 virgins are originally 72 white raisins, which makes sense to me as in Judaism, there is an allusion to 'exquisite fruit' in paradise.
Needless to say that, even after reading the Qur'an I could not find any divine origin in it. On the contrary, I might add. No insult intended.

Just to tell you one thing, Widad: I need no scripts, I have my conscience and my faith in the One God. That's what He's given me, that's all I need.

Widad wrote:

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Yep alhamdulillah we did turn a corner.Are you a personal trainer?? I love cats too we used to have a siamese cat.

thanks for your reply. I am not a personal trainer ... I train with one because of the injury I had last year horse riding. And got to get fit again and ready to do a 500 km bikerider later this year for a charity ...*L*

Siamese are funny ... They "talk" a lot ... make lots of noises ... my cats are just ordinary "london cats" but they are gorgeous nevertheless ... I have a large garden, so its great they can get out and about.

DaneToo wrote:

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thanks for your reply. I am not a personal trainer ... I train with one because of the injury I had last year horse riding. And got to get fit again and ready to do a 500 km bikerider later this year for a charity ...*L*

Siamese are funny ... They "talk" a lot ... make lots of noises ... my cats are just ordinary "london cats" but they are gorgeous nevertheless ... I have a large garden, so its great they can get out and about.

All cats are beautiful you know the first siamese I had was in cairo Egypt and he used to wait for me at the door when I came back from university and would jump on my shoulder and stay up there while I prepared lunch.

I am sorry bout your injury inshallah it will be better.

Geert wrote:

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And remember, Widad: the Qur'an changed too, even according to Muslim scolars. According to them, the original collection of Sunnas by Uthman, is still a _collection_ of texts made approx. 20 years after the prophet died (as you know, the Qur'an is not even in chronological order). Even of this collection, many Muslim scolars claim no originals remain and it is unproven that all sunnas are in this collection.
Moreover, the original Qur'an did not contain diacritical marks, so there is another difference.'Evil tongues' told me that the 72 virgins are originally 72 white raisins, which makes sense to me as in Judaism, there is an allusion to 'exquisite fruit' in paradise.
Needless to say that, even after reading the Qur'an I could not find any divine origin in it. On the contrary, I might add. No insult intended.

Just to tell you one thing, Widad: I need no scripts, I have my conscience and my faith in the One God. That's what He's given me, that's all I need.

The Quran has been learnt by heart and handed from generation to generation until now if a person read the quran either by heart or from the Book itslef if he were to read something wrong the ones who know it by heart can detect themistakes even in the vowels which in arabic are tiny slashes on top of the letters.

As for the virgins they are called "Hhour al-een" and are for all the righteous who go to paradise.And it wrong to say virgins because all women when going to heavens will be created virgins and will all be young and beautiful.
The 72 raisins " Eviltongues" can keep for himself!!

As for your not finding the quran divine,no insult taken ,you can believe whatever you want,yours is your religion and my religion is mine.

widad :)

David wrote:

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yeah we have public executions (murders) everyweek in London! oh about 200 years ago

Thankfully the English have moved on from those days and grown in strength & wealth.

canada wrote:

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iran does not represent muslim world neither iranians, many muslims hurt islam that do good for it, just like bin laden made by america to fight URSS.

Usa never made Binlada, but ye they did help him first, but they never make him and made him, they did don'r tell him go crazy like he is now, I guess if they would have know, then I guess they never would have help him at all.

Christian wrote wrote:

<quoted text>Usa never made Binlada, but ye they did help him first, but they never make him and made him, they did don'r tell him go crazy like he is now, I guess if they would have know, then I guess they never would have help him at all.

Ok,let's agree on what you said,but with all the CIA and FBI ingenius you really believe they couldn't catch him?????

How about Saddam Hussein,with all the greatness of the US intelligence,he was hiding in a room underground,and alive?????

Widad wrote:

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Ok,let's agree on what you said,but with all the CIA and FBI ingenius you really believe they couldn't catch him?????

How about Saddam Hussein,with all the greatness of the US intelligence,he was hiding in a room underground,and alive?????

They never have should help him either, I guess BinLada and Saddam is just the crazy guys, when they get the power, then they think they can do anything to other people, anyway about CIA and FBI I never have trust them and never will, I guess and I agree with you on that too, while they could catch him, they both, then why they did not do it, I really don't understand it either like you, I was sureprize, Like I have told before when american went first to Kuwait to help them, then they never have should give up find Saddam while they where there and ask for more time and was rigth time and when people in Kuwait ask for the help and people in Irak, it was they big mistake give up find Saddam that time, now when they went there again to iraq was a wrong timing, but good they could get saddam Hussien, know what I mean, they should also have catch Bin lada while they could, why they did don't I don't understand it either, it stanges for me as for you.

I guess CIA and FBI is the guys I would never trust to trust what they are saying.

Christian wrote wrote:

I guess CIA and FBI is the guys I would never trust to trust what they are saying.

phew!!

Widad wrote:

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phew!!

:oD

Geert wrote:

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Peace, Widad, I can feel your pain here.

I know you have a real passion for your beliefs, and I respect that deeply.

Just remember however:
* this huge religion can be threatening, especially for those who leave it or choose to be atheist (I've read the book, I know what the punishment for not believing is, and how many, many, many, many times it's repeated);
* as it is quite an 'assertive religion', I truely experience it as aggressive. You have to know that whatever imposes itself, WILL be subject to harsh comments and opposition (even you are hoping to convert people here - you've predicted many times Islam will prevail in Europe);
* many people think this religion is false, and thus won't treat it as holy (I'm sorry, welcome to the world there);
* I really think you underestimate the number of radical people Islam counts. I don't mean terrorists, but people secretly or openly supporting them. Believe me, I sense the culture of the Muslim youth in the streets.
* I also really think that putting blame on the west for problems in the east is an all-too-easy escape for your governements from their own responsabilities. Not that the west is holy, no, no. No side is. But remember: dividing the world in two pieces 'the west' vs.'Islam' is not 'our doing'. It's mainly Muslims who do that.

Now, for you Islam is beautiful, a religion of peace and light. And I'm confident in the good intentions of common Muslims. However, for many non-muslims, it has a dark, intimidating, menacing shadow, a threat to the liberty we've gained. And I personally believe there's some truth in that too.

That is what troubles us, Widad. Please do understand that some people choose for the counter-attack. As for me, I'm not trying to insult you in any way. I'm laying my finger on the wound here.

Peace, Geert.

Excellent Post. You have expressed how most Non Muslims feel. In Australia Non Muslins are speaking out. By the way when I said Non Muslins I include everybody not only Jews & Christians.

Christian wrote wrote:

I guess CIA and FBI is the guys I would never trust to trust what they are saying.

Maybe FBI and CIA just want to have crazy guys like Bin Lada and more like him to run aound I don't know,maybe they just don't want to catch them, I always wonder. Maybe they just have so fun play the game hide and seek and really don't want to catch Bin Lada, what do you think!

Widad wrote:

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As for your not finding the quran divine,no insult taken ,you can believe whatever you want,yours is your religion and my religion is mine.

widad :)

Exactly, that's the nature of 'faith' you know.:-) It's only because you explicitely ask for it I tell about it.

I need to repeat I admire your passion in your beliefs.

It's cute that each time one utters a doubt or different opinion about Islam, good Muslims like you and John jump into "defence mode". I hope you do realize this "defence mode" is sometimes percieved as "aggressive" by many non-Muslims.

In any case, sometimes I'm a bit naughty. I test people. You questioned some vital parts of my belief (like Jezus being the son of God). I just wanted to see how you react if I questioned a vital part of your belief (the divine origin of the Qur'an).

What do I see?

My answer was _not_ a standard answer, but an most individual declaration of my most individual experience of my belief. I had to rephrase and explain, and some Catholic priests would hit me over the head while others would listen and smile.

Your answer was from the book. I had almost predicted you would use "learnt by heart" in your answer.

It's VERY important to see that this is one of the most fundamental difference between 'the west' and 'the east'. It's wrong to see all Muslims as a whole, but it's much, much worse to see 'the west' as a whole. For most of 'us' in 'the west', religion is an INDIVIDUAL experience where we have learned to question and seek for our own answers, and keep them for ourselves. And that goes for ALL questions of morality. And this freedom is necessary for a multicultural society. For Muslims, Islam is an unquestionnable COMMON basis, a part of a COMMON identity.

That common basis is both a strength and a weakness. The strength I don't need to explain, but the weakness is that it can be subject to manipulation from soulless leaders. Why else would an unbelieving dog like Saddam otherwise put "Allah is the greatest" in his flag?

Now, Widad, let me assure you that I respect you and that I'd like to be your friend. So let's leave it by "yours is your religion and my religion is mine", otherwise you're gonna be taking Qur'an 3:118 too literally.

u guys have nice search

Koran is a death cult, Muhammad broke all compandments as he was fooled by the serpant. Islam is a false peace, and will be part of the end of days. Muslims cannot see the evil as they are blinded. We must try to save Muslims from this terrible crisis called Islam.

David wrote:

COME ON REPRESENTATIVES OF ISLAMIC LAW AND FAITH LETS SEE YOUR COMMENTS.....

The difference between Islamic law (Sharia) and the Christian/JEWISH Law is this.

Islamic law protect the victims, but the Christian/Jewish Law protect the criminals.

Sure jensen like the last woman raped in Saudi Arabia and so many others before her have been put in prison awaiting punishment because Saudi hoods... but that news flooded out fast to the world on this occasion and their was outrage…Sharia law fair my bazooka.