Will We Let Iraq Become The Next Rwanda?

There are only three ways to resolve these issues.

Considering that neither the Sunni or Shiite or the majority of the people of Iraq want us in Iraq and want us to leave:

1 US and coalition forces under Bush must realize that they must take sides with either Sunni or Shiite for the purpose of either one coming to power in Iraq.

2 Stay and fight these people into the long distant future because they will not stop coming considering how much there is at stake here for their interests.

#3 Leave. Then watch an even more unholy mess unfold that will go on for years.

I do not like any of the above no more than you do but this is reality and the only way "out" is #1.

Well again the same old comments, can't leave because of it getting worse. Yet even using that stupidity, the opposite of that is staying forever, which is worse, we become the Imperial Power that won't leave.

What the stay forever people don't realize is that the long the US is in Iraq, the more we become the enemy, not that we aren't the enemy now. Iraq will never end up what the US wants, too much at stake for all sides, money, power, religion, rich and poor, outside influences. How do you solve that, by a police state, which breeds even more undercurrents.

The answer is simple, which should be understandable by even the simple minds that push the stay forever, we aren't going to change a thing in Iraq, just delay, so is delaying worth it, I say not.

Who cares, not our problem. Let the Muslims kill each other because thats what they will do either way. History more than proves it.

I said #1 is the --way-- out because if we leave we are enemies on all sides forever and forever means forever since no amount of foreign policy or assistance or foreign aid can correct the social/governmental/cultural/n ational damage that Bush has inflicted on Iraq for as long as humanity exists.

Bush has guaranteed that --terrorists-- will haunt us for all of known time and not just in opportunist attacks when it is convenient.

If you put the Shiite's or Sunni's in power and hang on there 2 or 3 more years until they have built up controlling power both in the government and in the street then Iraq will be functionally stable when Iraq now is not functional as a nation. It has become nothing but a vast --area-- of war because for all intents and purposes of a nation Iraq no longer exists and is nothing more than the name of a piece of real estate.

It will not be the government Bush wants with Shiite or Sunni in command but it is far better than walking away while the slaughter ensues and then the ENTIRE Arab world will be on our heels for that forever ON TOP of the damage already done plus it promises that a guaranteed radical entity will finally get Iraq.

But the lesser of two evils since there is NO third option, if we put one or the other in power at least we reduce our enemies in the region since LESS people will be after us. We can still keep our foot in the door by putting them in power and making sure they keep power. That is better than the entire Arab world breathing down our necks as Iraq becomes terrorist headquarters when we walk away from it.

Nothing will be accomplished by depending on Iraqi --secular-- men in the form of an Iraqi military because they have no real motivation in this and nothing really to fight for since they know that if the US and coalition forces fail and the current Iraqi government fails then every single one of them will be hunted down and killed for their participation, them and their families, which is why they are not too keen on serving in this capacity and are proven to be undependable.

I have always said that the factions keep peace with one another in the Army ranks even though I have always believed that they are just part time spies for the Sunni or Shiite that way they can serve the current government and save their a$$ at the same time. It is just another angle to dupe the US by a people who literally define duplicity since none of them are what they say they are and they all believe in the same thing being The Great White Satan=US. It is no different than drug gangs strangely knowing everything the police know just like they were sitting there in their office. In both cases someone is working both sides of the street and one is no better than the other except in the former we know who and in the latter we don't know who.

Two points to note:

1. From what I can tell Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party, was is dominated by Sunni Muslims.

2.Do a half hours research here and you will see that the majority of Muslims in the US are Sunni.

A guide to mosques & schools
http://www.salatomatic.com/_region_intro.php...

So why did the always lesser class and more radical side of Islam come to power in Iraq? Who outlawed the Ba'ath party? Who disbanded the Iraqi Army?

Who is responsible for the Shiites coming to power in Iraq while hiding behind a new and secular government?

Doesn't that generate --terrorism-- in Iraq and severely threaten us here at home by setting up an government in Iraq that is dominated by the Shiite faction?

Given all of that and since one or the other must come to power in Iraq, if we are to save our a$$ here at home don't you think that the Sunni should run Iraq?

In the long distant future we are going to be hard core enemies with one or the other so if we put the Sunni in power doesn't that reduce the possible number of possible radicals going on the move here at home by millions since most Muslims in the US are Sunni?

If we put the Shiites in power in Iraq we keep our enemies at arms length in the mid east but at the same time if we put the Sunni in power we save ourselves here at home from millions of angry and could be radical Sunni hitting us from the inside.

Putting the Sunni in power in Iraq severely reduces our enemies within Islam here at home.

I do not like it no more than anyone else does but putting the Sunni in power in Iraq will not only get Iraq stable an operating as long as we stay and help over the next few years but it also reduces by millions the possible number of potential --terrorists-- hitting us from the inside which are Sunni here at home.

If anyone can read between the lines, see beyond the headlines, to see which influence it is on our government and our politics and our foreign policy that is working the situation so that not only do we have this can of worms to deal with, the Shiites through Maliki and Sadr and the Shiite majority in the Iraqi cabinet are for what it's worth, are in control of Iraq and that means perpetual war for them and us in Iraq plus generates millions of potential Sunni --terrorists-- here at home if the Sunni are in the end displaced from their former domination.

Who or which nation benefits the most from the US having these kinds of enemies and generating potential/wannabe terrorists inside the US.

We certainly have nothing to gain from war in the mid east and putting the current Shiites in power and certainly do not benefit from aggravating millions of Sunni in the US to possibly start hitting us from the inside.

Ask yourself who or what is influencing or pulling all the strings to make these SUICIDAL ARRANGEMENTS for the United States so that our enemies swell in ranks both outside an inside our borders when formerly this situation did not exist?

Someone or something is working both sides of the street for their own ends and we are dupes and patsies who as a people and a nation do not control our own worldly destiny.

Recent demonstrations and polls show over whelming majority of Iraqis despise Americans because of their crimes against Iraqis. Insurgents also claim to fight only the occupiers and their Iraqi poodles. In this scenario, it would be prudent for American and British to pull out leaving only skeletal staff to train Iraqis in dealing with their crisis. American is presently the most terror state and is the most hated. The good American people are suffering in the end game.

The common bond between the Islamic factions is their idea of The Great White Satan=US.

The second common bond they have is Islam.

The third common bond is the Quran/Koran.

We are lead to believe that they are fighting over doctrinal differences when their doctrinal differences are petty and not worth killing each other over.

What they are doing is the same thing they have been doing for thousands of years and that is not fighting over doctrinal differences but fighting for tribal control of the people. This goes way back into Arab families.

It is their culture that they rule this way over one another. They are not going to surrender, ever, this type of tribal/religious rulership.

This is why Sunni and Shiite are at each others throats and AT THE SAME COMMON TIME are fighting US and coalition forces together.

Like a tag team match while the one guy is getting beat on by two other guys while the two that are beating him are also beating each other with their two available hands. That generates a comical cartoonish image but none the less that's the way it is.

We are fighting Sunni and Shiite and they are fighting the US and each other simultaneously.

Each of the three parties involved has TWO enemies that could best be represented in the opposing two points of a triangle from a single point of the triangle.

The other option is to pull out in totality and turn Iraq into a sea of glass.

This entire Iraq occupation, is to make Iraq a killing field, thats what was suppose to happen, proof, what idiot would invade and occupy a country, disable their military and police, send in as few troops as possible, oh wait, I know what idiot would do that, King George.

Iraq will NEVER be what the US expects, it will be a rallying cry for fundamentalists pointing out the infidels occupying and colonizing their land.

AmericanAgainstKingGeorge that brings up another question I have had for many years.

All peoples, even by a variety of their own people, at some point were overrun/invaded/conquered by other peoples.

Since this was long ago, and done by humans of much less learning than today. And done so by peoples who may have been on the greed or for malicious reasons or due to human ignorance so far back. And done so by happenstance or by mistake since they did not know they were there and couldn't leave anyway. And done so for a a myriad of reasons in days of old in conquering and occupying...

My question has always been, either by God or by evolution (why they hail from there is not the issue) that is where that race/people came from, it is their home, their dirt, they were created on it crawled out of it, whichever, and for whatever reasons from days old, the conquerer and occupier is out of step with where he was created or slithered out of the ooze...

Do those people have a modern day human right to claim what is theirs by birth/heritage/God as theirs, since it was theirs. Not that they gave it away, not that they sold it. The fact was that either by passive occupation or by war it was taken from them, do they have the modern day human right to fight back in the event that they asked the other party to leave and go back where they are supposed to be?

Here is a short list (please don't anyone pick at me for the people on the list since it is only for example and not a list reflecting any racial/political/religious preferences on my part)

I'm referring strictly to indigenous peoples and not peoples of lands who went after the land when no one was from there or was using it anyway such as the North Pole or the South Pole or the middle of the ocean.

Do the people of Ireland have the human right to tell the UK to get out of Northern Ireland and to fight back by whatever means they can get their hands on if they don't?

Does the mid east peoples (formerly subjects of colonization) have the human right to tell other governments and their armed forces to get out and to fight back by whatever means they can get their hands on if they don't?

Do the Aborigine people of Australia have the human right to tell the Europeans to leave and to fight back by whatever means they can get their hands on if they don't?

What about Honk Kong? Does China have the human right to order the Brits to back off. Whether that is accomplished or not, do the people of Hong Kong have the right to secede from their parent nation? Taiwan?

What about native Americans? Do they have the human right top tell the Europeans and everyone else to get out and to fight back by whatever means they can get their hands on if they don't?

Mexicans and the southwest US?

The indigenous people of Canada and the French?

Most of what is going on in the world is being done so by people who are not from there and doing so from a place their people never came from.

Mr. Gottlieb raises some interesting points. They resonate with my on feelings. While we should never have gone there in the first place, when we did, we broke their system. Whoever wins, Shites or Sunnis, the risk of genocide is way too probable to dismiss casually. The Bush administration has placed too little emphasis on the volatile, every changing politics in Iraq. I am a big fan of Teddy Roosevelt, "carry a big stick and walk (talk) softly".

Since we broke it, we must now pay for it. We need to provide enough force to stabilize the country, however temporary, until the Iraqis figure out their political solution(s).

As a world leader and primary dependent of middle eastern oil, we do not have the option of letting one sect of Iraqi kill off another.

And there lies the problem, the longer we are in Iraq, the more we build up bases, build Royal Palace Embassies, the more we become the enemy that won't leave. That happened in Vietnam, that created Osama, with a promise of leaving Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War, and never doing it, Iraq will be the same way. No matter what BS excuse we give, never leaving just shows the Iraqis and the fundamentalists, that America never tells the truth and just wants to control muslims.

Have you never wronged anyone and apologized for it, in full knowledge that you may or may not be forgiven? Well we have wronged the country of Iraq, and if we were real Christians, we would confess our sins. Otherwise we must step out from behind our religious and moral pretenses and continue doing wrong.
Besides, when you see Sunnis and Shiites walking together, unless you want to remain unforgiven in the midst of those you have wronged, it is time to leave with a "Well, it looks like you finally got yer shit together. See ya. Bye!"

P.S. I don't want to hear the words "cut and run" come out of Bush's mouth, because it's what he did to McCain to win the Presidency.

Syed Rahim wrote:

Recent demonstrations and polls show over whelming majority of Iraqis despise Americans because of their crimes against Iraqis. Insurgents also claim to fight only the occupiers and their Iraqi poodles. In this scenario, it would be prudent for American and British to pull out leaving only skeletal staff to train Iraqis in dealing with their crisis. American is presently the most terror state and is the most hated. The good American people are suffering in the end game.

The U.S. should never have stuck its nose into the matter, but now that we have, and now that it stinks, I think it best to bury the offending turd and leave.

Pull the troops out and give any city suspected of harboring terrorists the Dresden/Carthage treatment. MOAB it until no living thing remains and not one stone is still standing upon another.

James McLain wrote:

Have you never wronged anyone and apologized for it, in full knowledge that you may or may not be forgiven? Well we have wronged the country of Iraq, and if we were real Christians, we would confess our sins. Otherwise we must step out from behind our religious and moral pretenses and continue doing wrong.
Besides, when you see Sunnis and Shiites walking together, unless you want to remain unforgiven in the midst of those you have wronged, it is time to leave with a "Well, it looks like you finally got yer shit together. See ya. Bye!"

You are right. To be more blunt about it, this is no longer about being a humble (c)hristian and admitting ones mistakes and taking ones medicine, repenting, making good if possible, and getting on with life.

This is about saving face, saving their careers, saving their families reputation, preserving their family name, preserving their MONEY, this is about every self centered thing ever listed in the book of greed an selfishness.

These same people claim to honor God, go to church, and say they are Christians. It also reflects that their spiritual leaders are no better than they are.

I'm pro-life with plates, and I say that that Glass option sounds good. I hear there are a few thousand christians. Oh, well, God will sort them out just as he did with the christians in Palestine and Lebanon who who got creamed in the 70's and 80's.

What a bunch of the same BS. When we've gotten enough Iraqis killed, we caan pick up the pieces by setting up an oil-republic that we can control. Everybody else in the world knows we are the cause of this hell-on-earth which we've visited on the Iraqi people and the best thing we can do is leave it to others who might actually have the interests of Iraqis in mind. The neocons dream of empire will ultimately turn into a nightmare as did The Fuehrer's 1000 yr. Reich.

roast the entire middle east....the world would be a much better place!....these human pieces of garbage have done nothing to make the world a better place, but have done plenty to make it a worse place!...If I had my way I would attack all of their males between the ages of 15 to 50...either detain or kill them...there just a small step above being animals anyway.
With any luck Iran will be next!!!!