Carbon tax dislike 'can be turned around'

ROAST PORK

....or maybe you think big business has a deep hidden conscience when it come to the environment , and will fix all their problems so they can sleep better at night?........the bottom line for you Ahomona , is how much the carbon tax will effect you , not how much you are "told" how it will effect you.

chefboy812 wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry Foo but THIS tax is straight out of the socialist handbook

NO need to apologize chefboy.....If we could could take the good points of socialism and the good points of capitalism and mix them up , we'd end up with a far better system than we have now..........or do you honestly believe that theres some "reds under the beds"?

convict wrote:

ROAST PORK

...with apple sauce mmmmmmm!

BS meter went right off wrote:

"The ATO's latest published taxation statistics show revenues from personal taxation, company taxation and capital gains tax are all down."
03 May 2012
http://www.smartcompany.com.au/tax/049481-fed...

Well doesn't this blow the tax argument being made by the person who started the thread completely out of the water?
The government cannot be both increasing taxes and collecting less tax!

Courtney wrote:

<quoted text>
Well doesn't this blow the tax argument being made by the person who started the thread completely out of the water?
The government cannot be both increasing taxes and collecting less tax!

Juggling figures has become an artform for both sides of politics....take either with a large rain of salt.

that be grain !....ofcourse

Foo wrote:

<quoted text>Juggling figures has become an artform for both sides of politics....take either with a large rain of salt.

Thanks Foo but the lower taxation figures come from the ATO while the high taxing argument comes from a Liberal Party newsletter? If it was one party arguing with another I could see your point, but facts are facts!

Courtney wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks Foo but the lower taxation figures come from the ATO while the high taxing argument comes from a Liberal Party newsletter? If it was one party arguing with another I could see your point, but facts are facts!

It's my opinion that the need to know what the true figures are,or mean , will become far less important, in the "not too distant future".......

Foo wrote:

<quoted text>It's my opinion that the need to know what the true figures are,or mean , will become far less important, in the "not too distant future".......

I'm sorry could you please spell that out for me?

Courtney wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks Foo but the lower taxation figures come from the ATO while the high taxing argument comes from a Liberal Party newsletter? If it was one party arguing with another I could see your point, but facts are facts!

Suggest you go read the ATO reports, especially 5 year spread 06/07 to 10/11, because in no way or means has taxation dropped except if you compare taxation collected against GDP - and that is because GDP grew at a higher % than taxation. And this is a fact for both sides of government. Taxation NEVER decreases.

Foo wrote:

<quoted text>NO need to apologize chefboy.....If we could could take the good points of socialism and the good points of capitalism and mix them up , we'd end up with a far better system than we have now..........or do you honestly believe that theres some "reds under the beds"?

remind of good points of socialism? Thats just a bigger controlling government? And yes capitalism has many many faults but again if government butted out more things could be better.

I check everynight to make sure there aren't pollies under the bed. 8D

Socialism (as opposed to communism)is theoretically a system where all citizens share wealth equally, and all people contribute to the state for the common good......a very fair system.......but it has been proven to stagnate society....the incentive to achieve ,and reach for higher goals and innovations is absent.......human nature dictates that some people have more ambition than others , and some will under-achieve, while reaping the benefits of others efforts , basically for free.....if someone puts in more effort ,they deserve to be rewarded accordingly.....capitalism ,on the other hand ,has reached the point where those who contribute least to society, are rewarded by far the most.....ergo ,the ideal lays somewhere between the two...The biggest downside to capitalism ,as I see it , is when greed enters the equation ,fairness exits....

Socialism should never be mistaken for communism.Its convenient for the rightwing of politics to do this ,but there is a world of difference between the two.....socialism offers social justice ,while capitalism would rather abandon it altogether,and they would tomorow ,if they weren't afraid of a voter backlash....Howard's economic rationalism was the dehumanising of australian society....where nothing is more important than the bottom line of big business......

Foo wrote:

Socialism (as opposed to communism)is theoretically a system where all citizens share wealth equally, and all people contribute to the state for the common good......a very fair system.......but it has been proven to stagnate society....the incentive to achieve ,and reach for higher goals and innovations is absent.......human nature dictates that some people have more ambition than others , and some will under-achieve, while reaping the benefits of others efforts , basically for free.....if someone puts in more effort ,they deserve to be rewarded accordingly.....capitalism ,on the other hand ,has reached the point where those who contribute least to society, are rewarded by far the most.....ergo ,the ideal lays somewhere between the two...The biggest downside to capitalism ,as I see it , is when greed enters the equation ,fairness exits....

So as I remembered - no good points to socialism.

Greed is a problem with capitalism - but laws to stop it aren't enforced vigorously enough and the supposedly checks in place seem to not done.

Foo wrote:

Socialism should never be mistaken for communism.Its convenient for the rightwing of politics to do this ,but there is a world of difference between the two.....socialism offers social justice ,while capitalism would rather abandon it altogether,and they would tomorow ,if they weren't afraid of a voter backlash....Howard's economic rationalism was the dehumanising of australian society....where nothing is more important than the bottom line of big business......

The only difference between communism & socialism is capitalism.
As for economic rationalism - it was hawke/keating that reduced tarrifs, sold off gov't owned enterprises which led to 13% unemployment & 17% interest rates. Compare that to Howard 5% & 5%. Howard delivered budget surpluses & invigorated business competiveness & job creation, low inflation.
Howard also put billions into health & aged care but unfortunately the (labor) states reduced their funding so little changed.
So what was dehumanising? Making long term unemployed work for the dole? GOOD. Too many people making a career on the dole. He got re-elected twice on this so society was happy with that decision.

Foo wrote:

....or maybe you think big business has a deep hidden conscience when it come to the environment , and will fix all their problems so they can sleep better at night?........the bottom line for you Ahomona , is how much the carbon tax will effect you , not how much you are "told" how it will effect you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Foo wrote:

<quoted text>Exactly......its been proven beyond doubt , that the most effective way to change bad industrial practice is by fiancial penalties ......better industrial practices ,less financial penalties on business......not rocket science........would you prefer to give them a severe scolding ?

And if there was any evidence that by hitting a company with heavy penalties for polluting would in anyway reduce the effects on climate change then that would be logical but there is no evidence that this will be the case, companies can still pollute, just buy more credits from companies that dont use them and then they can pass those charges on to their consumers....it can be a win win for them and the government who is seen to be helping when in fact what they have implemented is doing SFA. This will happen because there are companies that can adapt to us alternate energy wich comes at a higher price to the consumer and there are other companies that can't or won't wich will also effect the consumer with none of it having any significant effect on climate change.....

Courtney wrote:

<quoted text>
Well doesn't this blow the tax argument being made by the person who started the thread completely out of the water?
The government cannot be both increasing taxes and collecting less tax!

How was it you were Becky yesterday and are Courtney today Melbourne troll....remember when you change your identity it changes on every post....and in answer to your question if you had a brain you would know that it doesn't fully answer the question...but trolls aren't here to use their brains?

chefboy812 wrote:

<quoted text>
The only difference between communism & socialism is capitalism.

I think not.....people have few choices under communist rule .......My father used to tell me,that if you had a toothache in Russia ,they had to pull it out through yer arse ,because you werent allowed to open your mouth......BTW Howard made it very fashionable and socially acceptable to tell very big lies...like MWDs in Iraq and children chucked overboard......even topped his Kemlani lie when he was Malcolms treasurer !.....and George Dubya schooled him well on how to rubberise employment figures.....as far as his surpluses go ,he was more surprised than anyone how successfull the GST turned out for the federal bank account.....and the Soverign Wealth Fund ?.....it should be at least double what is ,considering 10 years of uninterupted mining and resources boom..........