It's the Guns, Stupid

Provocateur wrote:

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You'll never understand how disturbing that is.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?
Ernest Gaines

I would rather see two guys holding hands AND holding guns.

http://pinkpistols.org/

Jesus you're stupid.

Provocateur wrote:

<quoted text>
You'll never understand how disturbing that is.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?
Ernest Gaines

Two men holding guns stand far less of a chance of catching a sexually transmitted disease, and are even less likely to be attacked by two men who ~are~ holding hands.
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"People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically 'right.' Guns ended that, and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work."

- From 'The Probability Broach,' by L. Neil Smith,

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And:
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"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for ills, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to personal liberty -- so dear to men, so dear to the enlightened legislator - and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer?

Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."

- Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria (1738 - 1794), On Crimes and Punishments, ch. XL: False Ideas of Utility (1764).

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Also:
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"For among other evils caused by being disarmed, it renders you contemptible, which is one of those disgraceful things which a prince must guard against, as will be explained later. Because there is no comparison whatever between an armed and a disarmed man; it is not reasonable to suppose that one who is armed will obey willingly one who is unarmed; or that any unarmed man will remain safe among armed servants."

- Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

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And finally:
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“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.”

“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”

~ Robert A. Heinlein
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Tm CLmns wrote:

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This is why goggling sites and thinking you know something. does not work.
The long gun registry bill was killed.. but that was the federal government.
Your name is still tracked by local authorities when you buy a gun. The green book.
Keep on fooling yourself by reading material that is out of context.
A good propaganda game... but totally useless if you want to know what is going on..
Speaking of who is uninformed.

Yes, exactly, it was killed....duh...

Tm CLmns wrote:

<quoted text>
This is why goggling sites and thinking you know something. does not work.
The long gun registry bill was killed.. but that was the federal government.
Your name is still tracked by local authorities when you buy a gun. The green book.
Keep on fooling yourself by reading material that is out of context.
A good propaganda game... but totally useless if you want to know what is going on..
Speaking of who is uninformed.

First you have the gall to dismiss someone who quotes referable sources, wherein the specified information is ascertainable several ways through other associated references, and then you have the bloody temerity to profess a distinction of which you've —to date— not once, not a single time, validated by providing anything of substance.
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All you've spouted is your frigg'n opinion unsupported by anything, and then spat that into the faces of others as if that were the sine qua non of the matter.
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Nothing new there!

August wrote:

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You poor, poor thing.

yes.. I am suffering badly...

oh... the pain....

Maybe I should joint a gun club to ease the horror of it all..

ZigmunnDroid wrote:

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Except for your brainwashed liberal attitude towards the best and only tool that makes men equal, you almost make sense.

I thought Democracy and the Free Enterprise system made men equal...

You mean they lied to me again...???

Tm CLmns wrote:

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I thought Democracy and the Free Enterprise system made men equal...
You mean they lied to me again...???

So-called 'democracy' is nought but three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
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Free enterprise has ~virtually~ nothing to do with so-called 'democracy' inasmuch the ability to trade freely with others requires very little —if any— interference by government.
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Appropriate quote:
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"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing. Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the People, who have... a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers. There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free 'government' ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among people."

~ John Adams
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Highlander wrote:

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First you have the gall to dismiss someone who quotes referable sources, wherein the specified information is ascertainable several ways through other associated references, and then you have the bloody temerity to profess a distinction of which you've —to date— not once, not a single time, validated by providing anything of substance.
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All you've spouted is your frigg'n opinion unsupported by anything, and then spat that into the faces of others as if that were the sine qua non of the matter.
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Nothing new there!

Look.. get this straight once and for all...

You are wasting you time using goggle site quotes to prove anything....

Just because you have misguided ideas, and find other bozos who put them on the web, does not prove your point.

Using sites with information, out of context or without the complete information, included is also useless.

EG 1: Even though they killed the national gun registry here, local officials still
track gun sales here.
EG2:The health of Canadian real estate can be confirmed by Real Estate co. sales and prices. Houses still sell for very high prices.

No one in the serious world uses google for real information.
Only elementary school kids working on simple projects do that.

My points are mainly (but not exclusively) philosophical and ideological, but you think you can ignore them, by posting some useless link to disprove me.

That is why you guys can be easily propagandized... you have been fed useless chunks of information for decades. Newt does this all the time....

Highlander wrote:

<quoted text>
So-called 'democracy' is nought but three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
.
Free enterprise has ~virtually~ nothing to do with so-called 'democracy' inasmuch the ability to trade freely with others requires very little —if any— interference by government.
.
Appropriate quote:
——————————
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing. Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the People, who have... a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers. There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free 'government' ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among people."
~ John Adams
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Ok.. I like that

Why don't your politicians use these ideas instead of telling everyone how great and equal the US is.
So.. propaganda is still too rampant..

Re: Free enterprise. If you didn't have government laws and regs. The wolves would trade & sell mutton

Tm CLmns wrote:

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My points are mainly (but not exclusively) philosophical and ideological

This is your response when you are presented with facts and you wonder why you're mercilessly ridiculed on here.
Enjoy your fantasy world, where everyone holds hands and it rains lemonade and snows ice cream.
The rest of us will be here in the real world.

ZigmunnDroid wrote:

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Try Singapore. They still cane miscreants like you and make it safer for everyone. And no guns.

No they cane American tourists who throw garbage around. I believe that was in the news some time ago.. Everyone in the US was outraged.... It was some young punk...
Remember, when you go to other countries, you have to follow the laws of their land.

Guns do not kill it is the idiots using them.

Eliminate all gun carry laws.

Tony wrote:

Eliminate all gun carry laws.

Why?

August wrote:

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Why?

Too many idiots carrying them and murdering innocent people.

August wrote:

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Why?

Why not?
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The only ~valid~ gun law is the Second Article of Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
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And because the amending articles ~followed~ the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, then U.S. Const. Art. VI, paragraph (2) applies fully to the states. Further yet, the 14th Article of Amendment specifically applies the Bill of Rights to the several states.
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And further questions?

Tony wrote:

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Too many idiots carrying them and murdering innocent people.

WHERE, oh WHERE is YOUR proof of THAT assertion?
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GOT PROOF?
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In upwards of 2.5 MILLION times each year, firearms are employed by people in the defence of themselves and others.
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In the very smallest number of those times is the firearm ever discharged, and in a smaller number yet does a fatality occur when the firearm is discharged.
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In total then, the mere sight or expression of possessing a gun, is sufficient to either cause a violent crime progress to cease, or to cause an prospective assailant to quickly depart the premises.
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Your argument then, is BOTH specious and spurious.

Tm CLmns wrote:

<quoted text>
Look.. get this straight once and for all...
You are wasting you time using goggle site quotes to prove anything....
Just because you have misguided ideas, and find other bozos who put them on the web, does not prove your point.
Using sites with information, out of context or without the complete information, included is also useless.
EG 1: Even though they killed the national gun registry here, local officials still
track gun sales here.
EG2:The health of Canadian real estate can be confirmed by Real Estate co. sales and prices. Houses still sell for very high prices.
No one in the serious world uses google for real information.
Only elementary school kids working on simple projects do that.
My points are mainly (but not exclusively) philosophical and ideological, but you think you can ignore them, by posting some useless link to disprove me.
That is why you guys can be easily propagandized... you have been fed useless chunks of information for decades. Newt does this all the time....

You can't get anything straight, because you're ~not~ straight, remember?
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Virtually every government agency —state and local— along with lawyers, and others in the legal profession, college and university professors, doctors of whatever sort, researchers, scientists, engineers and a whole slew of other professionals and non-professionals employ the Internet to gather information or locate sources of information to further assist them in their endeavours.
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Ergo, your argument is —once again— both specious and spurious.
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Why don't you just confess that you're unable to properly employ sources of information and be done with it?

Highlander wrote:

<quoted text>
WHERE, oh WHERE is YOUR proof of THAT assertion?
.
GOT PROOF?
.
In upwards of 2.5 MILLION times each year, firearms are employed by people in the defence of themselves and others.
.
In the very smallest number of those times is the firearm ever discharged, and in a smaller number yet does a fatality occur when the firearm is discharged.
.
In total then, the mere sight or expression of possessing a gun, is sufficient to either cause a violent crime progress to cease, or to cause an prospective assailant to quickly depart the premises.
.
Your argument then, is BOTH specious and spurious.

Only law enforcement and military should be able to carry guns in public legally.

Tony wrote:

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Too many idiots carrying them and murdering innocent people.

What does that have to do with carry laws?