Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038

mike wrote:

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God did not create evil. Simply by existing the opposite of Him comes into being. In this universe anyway.

In one fell swoop?

You proved that your god is NOT omniscient and NOT omnipotent and NOT all-encompassing and NOT all-all!

That is just hilarious!

wolverine wrote:

63 Deaths In Chicago Over Memorial Weekend...More People Killed In Chicago Over The Last Ten Years Then In Afganistan...
Yeah, I'd Say Morals Are Gone....Abortions For The Purpose Of Gender ?

And thank you for telling it simply like it is. It's a shame.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>No-- we do not.

Nothing the bible (NT) speaks of, has ANY OTHER SOURCES WRITTEN AT THE SAME TIME.

More? Even the bible itself is 60-90 years TOO LATE.

So you are lying, here-- but that's to be expected: lying is your only strategy.

Josephus. Archeological evidence coincides with the Bible. Legitimate leaders who served, legitimate places, and timelines. They do not disprove the Bible. Not trying to suggest that these unequivocally prove the NT.

mike wrote:

I am so out numbered in here it ain't even funny.

Indeed.

Your god isn't there to give you a hand?

Just like all the 1000's of OTHER times your god failed to lend you a helping hand?

Interesting: nothing fails quite like the Genuine Christian™ god does.

Nontheist wrote:

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It's okay, if you want to ignore the Judaic prophecies that weren't fulfilled it's no big deal, right?
Christianity has done it for going on 2000 years now.

Classic Salad Bowl Kristianity.

mike wrote:

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God can decided to enforce judgement whenever He wants. As recorded in the Bible. He gives people a chance to change first. When the fullness has taken its course, He acts, according to the Bible.

Like during the flood? The Bible does not mention any chances given.

How about the first born of Egypt? Were they given a chance? Since they were not a democracy, and the bible clearly states that god himself made the pharoh(sic) refuse Moses, I don't see that as anything less than the butchery of folks who had no choice at all!!

How about someone like Charles(tex) Watson who participated in the killings for Charley Mason. He has confessed to stabbing a nine month pregnant Sharon Tate more than 19 times. In another incident, he has confessed to saying " I work for the devil, and am doing his work" right before he shot an unarmed man to death.
.
Guess what? Old Tex has found Jesus!!!. He is very active in a christian outreach program while he does his life sentance. So when you die(According to your belief), you and Tex can now sing praises to god together, while I burn in hell for being a careing husband, father, brother, and someone who has often anonymously helped total strangers and who has certainly done more to help people than harm them.... But I don't believe in your god, so I burn for all of eternity.

Now, tell me again how wonderful and fair this god of yours is. Oh, and when you die, tell Tex I said "Hi"

The serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>Free will is choice without consequence. It is almost impossible. Oh, with mundane things like " I will raise my left arm rather than my right", you might have true free will. Freedom of choice is the process where one is allowed to make a choice without imcumberence. In other words, you are free to make any choice you want without being stopped or forcibly redirected. If we apply that to your religious belief, specifically a belief in god, than you have freedom of choice to believe or not to believe, but not free will to believe because disbelief incurs a penalty, and therefore is not a free choice.(choice without cost). Also, there is no scripture that say god gives you free will.

I mostly agree with this. However the Bible does say man makes choices. This means a choice is being made. That is as far as I go with free will.

The serpent was right wrote:

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Actually, the violent crime rate in America is on the decrease.

As the rate of non-believers is on the increase.

Interesting.

Corollary? Perhaps... perhaps not.

mike wrote:

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And yes. Read even physical copy not just online.

You surely don't mean the original copy??

mike wrote:

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If they lied people would have been around to say so.

Nope-- the gospels were written 3 GENERATIONS AFTER EVENTS.

Nobody was around to complain.... you forget how short-lived people were back then.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>Silly boyo!

Did you not take sex ed?

You cannot have a baby, unless there is some serious f888ing going on.

So, in order for Mary to get preggers? Your god had to f*** her-- all night long.

As for women not getting to choose their hubbies?

That's good old Jewish Historical Fact-- I'm so sorry your edumacation is woefully absent in this area.

So give me evidence to prove this is tue of marriage.

Virgin birth. Supernatural act.

KittenKoder wrote:

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I can prove it, and I have proven it.
Life expectancy to 79 years, more than 1960 by almost a decade:
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore...
You can see historical trends here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
Violent crimes have been on a steady decline since 1970, with a massive drop in the 1980s, correlating to the rise in popularity of video games and the advent of the internet. Search the FBI stats.
We have technology that was once only dreamed of. We can send messages across the globe for free. Commerce is now global offering better pricing and more choices, thanks to the internet. Even our poorest live better off today than ever before. Rights are more equal, and if the zealots would stop hindering equality we could reach the peak of equality soon. The world as a whole is more peaceful, fewer wars than any other time in history and fewer global threats from waring nations.
Disease has almost been conquered. Genomics is seeking more ways to extend our life spans beyond the internal calendars. We have reached the stars with our machines and technology, though we still need to work on getting ourselves out there more. We have explored worlds beyond our reach.
Most importantly, we are in the golden age of scientific advancement as a whole, and that is undeniable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch... This is the best time to be alive, and many people of older generations agree. The first time ever that nostalgia bias has actually declined because of this undeniable fact.
So put up, or shut up. Where is your evidence that life is worse?

Brilliant!

mike wrote:

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So it is impossible for the Jews to have as whole interpreted this passage incorrectly. Is it not possible that this passage refers to a later date than the coming Messiah. Please prove it does. If not then let's move to the next one.

Okay, these are the only OT biblical texts Judaism accepts as Messianic prophecy.

Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20 / Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39 / Ezekiel 38:16 / Hosea 3:4-3:5 / Micah 4 / Zephaniah 3:9 / Zechariah 14:9 / Daniel 10:14

I'm going to point out a few that haven't been fulfilled((none have, but still)), and then look at a specific verse.

Follow this.

Jeremiah 23:5 Not fulfilled. Isaiah 11:2-5 Not fulfilled. Jeremiah 33:15,16 Not fulfilled.

For instance, looking at Jeremiah 33:15,16... 15)In those days and at that time, I will raise up a true branch of David's line, and he shall do what is just and right in the land. 16) In those days Judah shall be delivered and Israel shall dwell secure. And this is what she shall be called: "The LORD is our Vindicator." (Jer 33:15,16 TNK)

Do you recall that happening, historically? It hasn't. Do you understand what it means?

Listen closely.

Christianity claims that the Jesus fulfilled old Judaic law or covenant.

Why would there be a prophecy that states Judaic law will be in effect across the land and the religious court system will be reinstated(the meaning of Jeremiah 38:15,16) when the Messiah comes(one time, only time) after, as I said, according to Christianity, that's been done away with?

If you follow what the Judaic prophecy claims for the Messiah, then none of that has happened, if you follow what Christianity asserts, then the law was fulfilled and essentially negated, then during the second coming, it will be reinstated, and Jewish law will once again be - the - law of the land.

According to the Christian version, the god seems schizophrenic in the way Christianity tries to twist Messianic prophecy to fit its whim.

Judaic law/\Christianity/\Judaic law

Does that make sense? Jewish law is done, the interim is Christianity, then back to Jewish law after the "second coming"?

No, it doesn't.

The prophecy has not been fulfilled, in Ezekiel, or any of the Judaic Messianic prophecies. There is no way getting around it. I'm not making the rules here, the rules were set in the mythology of the Judaic religion.I'm just looking at the requirements.

Christianity ignores the requirements and tries to invent it's own. The funny thing, is that by ignoring those Judaic requirements you have invalidated your religion and aren't even aware of it.

You guys have been blundering along for 2000 years wondering where in the hell is the Jesus and don't even know the Jesus was a false messiah and is never going to return.

THE FIRST MYTHICAL MESSIAH NEVER CAME TO BEGIN WITH.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>All 4 gospels are copies of copies of older texts, of which there is nothing left.

60 to 90 years TOO LATE.

NONE are eyewitness. NONE.

Not even your copy-of-a-copy, John.

We do only have copies. That is completely true. However we only have copies of the Iliad. No one debates whether we have the actual book written by Homer. We only have 200 manuscript and they date 1000 years after they were written. We have thousands of Biblical manuscripts some dating within 200 years of the original date. It is the most well documented book of all time. Even if we had none. We would be able I complete reconstruct the NT through the early church fathers writings.

The serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>Not at all. The earliest gospels were written well after the supposed event. Taking into account the average lifetime of people of that time, it is likely that most if not all eye-wittnesses would have been long gone.

All of the gospels save for John date within 30 years of Christ according to most scholars. Well within lifetimes.

mike wrote:

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Josephus. Archeological evidence coincides with the Bible.

Lie. Josephus was born too late. Your lies are easy to disprove.

There is ZERO archeological support for the bible-- NONE

Not even the reasonably complete records of Egypt show the exodus myth.

Not even the reasonably complete records of the Romans describe a "jesus" or his "trial" or his "death". None.

mike wrote:

Legitimate leaders who served, legitimate places, and timelines.

Nope. More lies by you-- or you would mention these fictional "leaders"...

mike wrote:

They do not disprove the Bible. Not trying to suggest that these unequivocally prove the NT.

Nothing in the bible fits actual... history.

This is because nothing in the bible is older than about 500BCE.

The wiley Hebrews wrote their mythic tales while in captivity in Babylon-- they did not exist prior.

And they wrote them in such a way to appear older--but they made many mistakes--mistakes which prove them too new.

As result? There is NO archeological evidence of bible-stuff, prior to 500BCE. None.

Which fits pretty neatly, too.

mike wrote:

<quoted text>
We do only have copies. That is completely true. However we only have copies of the Iliad. No one debates whether we have the actual book written by Homer.

So? Nobody is trying to pass laws based on Homer, nor do they kill people for failing to follow what Homer wrote.

But.

We DO have people trying to pass hate-laws based on your bible.

We DO have people who kill other people, because they believe what the bible commands them to do: kill one another (especially non-believers).

So your comparison is moot, and a side-trail.

mike wrote:

We only have 200 manuscript and they date 1000 years after they were written. We have thousands of Biblical manuscripts some dating within 200 years of the original date.

So? That's what-- 10 generations? In a pre-literate society, without modern printing? Where most tales are.. ORAL TRADITION?

That's not proof-- that is the very definition of GOSSIP.

mike wrote:

It is the most well documented book of all time.

That is the biggest LIE you have told so far! Wow!

The bible has so LITTLE non-bible documentation, it's >>literally<< laughable!

In fact? There are NO non-bible supporting documents-- NONE! All the "supporting" documents are bible documents themselves!

So you are really telling a whopper here!

Seriously. You could not be more wrong.

mike wrote:

Even if we had none. We would be able I complete reconstruct the NT through the early church fathers writings.

LOL!

Just as we can reconstruct Harry Potter from the movies?

Riiiiight...

.. can you say "circular argument"?

Good.

mike wrote:

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All of the gospels save for John date within 30 years of Christ according to most scholars. Well within lifetimes.

100 lie.

The oldest dates to 60 years or so. The others, 90 and 150 years and later.

Why do you lie, when it's so easy to refute?

Oh!

You are growing desperate...

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>Lie. Josephus was born too late. Your lies are easy to disprove.

There is ZERO archeological support for the bible-- NONE

Not even the reasonably complete records of Egypt show the exodus myth.

Not even the reasonably complete records of the Romans describe a "jesus" or his "trial" or his "death". None.

mike wrote, "
Legitimate leaders who served, legitimate places, and timelines."

Nope. More lies by you-- or you would mention these fictional "leaders"...

mike wrote, "
They do not disprove the Bible. Not trying to suggest that these unequivocally prove the NT. "

Nothing in the bible fits actual... history.

This is because nothing in the bible is older than about 500BCE.

The wiley Hebrews wrote their mythic tales while in captivity in Babylon-- they did not exist prior.

And they wrote them in such a way to appear older--but they made many mistakes--mistakes which prove them too new.

As result? There is NO archeological evidence of bible-stuff, prior to 500BCE. None.

Which fits pretty neatly, too.

Historians can use eye witness account to accurately portray history. Josephus lived after Christ but wrote during the time of the Gospels. He is not too far removed to verify the Bible.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

<quoted text>100 lie.

The oldest dates to 60 years or so. The others, 90 and 150 years and later.

Why do you lie, when it's so easy to refute?

Oh!

You are growing desperate...

60ad equals 30 years.