No room for same-sex marriages

STR-8 wrote:

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Did you ever hear the expression?
"If you want to belong to the club, you gotta pay the dues"
When are 'the gays' going to 'smarten up' and demand Civil Union/s and not hetero' Marrige status.
.. Foolish Gays ..

Oh, and why not marriage?? You guys have done such a bang up job of it. Maybe we could increase OUR divorce rate to about 50% JUST LIKE YOU!

But honestly, I could care less what they call it. I'm not looking for the gov'ts approval into my lifestyle - only the same legal protections for my wife and my children. Sure, there are round about ways and legal papers to gain ALMOST the same "rights" you all have - but why shouldn't we be able to commit to each other in a public ceremony and them be automatically granted??

So as long as they are willing to grant us those rights, I don't give a flip what they decide to call it.

dances with weebles wrote:

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sympathy? i'm not sure that he deserves it. he spreads hatred like oil on water. probably because he loathes himself so much.

Exactly. I have sympathy for someone who loathes himself so much. It's a shame. He's an individual who isn't strong enough to stand up to the majority and tell them all they're wrong and be ok with himself.

He could be living a happy, productive life on the other side of that issue.

STR-8 wrote:

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I really think that Civil Union is the way to go for now or risk further alienation within the hetero community.
Massachusetts? We will see about Massachusetts in the near future `cause its battle isn't over yet! Mayor Gavin sure had y'all 'on a roll' didn't he? And then the plug got pulled. LMAO
Keep trying and hoping and trying and hoping and trying and hoping ......

I am not concerned with alienating bigots.

There are plenty of straight people who support our cause - in fact, an amazing percentage considering how small a percentage of the population we are.

But as it has become more common in the last 10-20 years to "come out" in all areas of life, we come in contact with more and more people who otherwise might not have known firsthand that gay people are just like you, and deserve the same civil rights. Our out lives serve as examples and as education for the misinformed.

I know a lot of hard-core Christians and Catholics. When I came out at 24, I worked with several. They all knew me - they all knew what kind of person I was - well-respected, morally upright, generous of heart, etc. It was enough that when I came to terms with my sexuality and it came to light, they couldn't respond with their usual knee-jerk anti-gay crap like you read on these boards. They had to stop dead in their tracks and say to themselves, "Wait a minute...TONY???" They knew me as a person first, and knew that there was no way I would not be able to reconcile this if it were inherently immoral - any more than I would get involved in drugs, crime, etc. It forced them to THINK rather than just parrot or follow.

And there is still a large percentage of gay people who are not out. That number will decrease as the years go on, and more and more people will be informed. There was not one single out gay person in my high school of 480+ students. I graduated in 1989. My little sister graduated in 1999 and there was a gay-straight alliance club. She was better informed at that age than I was.

These things promote understanding and the trend continues, even among the "religious."

Massachusetts will not be overturned. Other states will take civil unions as a step to marriage. Once it hits a certain level, the supreme court, if it is doing the right thing, needs to step in and right the injustices we face at the behest of someone's religion.

Sam Bareback wrote:

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Grudes?
Your inane passive support of PEDOPHILES is disgusting.
You support your CULT of PEDOPHILES with your time, alleged talents and your MONEY.
That, in it's essence, supports the RAPES of CHILDREN.
Get a clue TONY the Pony, you're being played for a fool and you play the part willingly and well.

Damn dude, get a clue, he didn't say anything about what you are talking about. You are warped!!!!!

Mark -- that's the troll we know -- taking over someone else's name.

Bruce,

What the Bible says and what the laws of the State of California, or any other state for that matter, and the laws of the US should not be the same thing. The Bible DOES NOT govern in this country. And I might add thank God.

If the Bible ruled I couldn't have my shrimp or lobister or clams or any kind of shell fish. I couldn't wear cloths made of multiple fibers and I do love my silk and wool suits. No hair cuts and many other things.

I'll make it simple for you, if you are aginst gay marriage, then don't marry somebody of the same gender. Why should my taxes subsidize your lifestyle choices?

Bruce Tyler wrote:

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I just wanted to make a quick comment...Do all gays Deny the church's authority?...The Bible clearly states the marraige is between a man and a Woman.Maybe thats the problem with our country,Without God in our lives we are destined for eternal Doom...If you do not believe in God but feel it's ok to bring up a child in a gay house hold,Don't you think they will be Confused.We all need guidance in our lives..Some kind of higher power.I have nothing against the gay community,but marriage is out..Just live together and keep your sinful lives to yourself.
http://tylerinc.blogspot.com

Bruce Tyler wrote:

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I just wanted to make a quick comment...Do all gays Deny the church's authority?...The Bible clearly states the marraige is between a man and a Woman.Maybe thats the problem with our country,

The Bible was written by man, if you follow the bible, you are following man.

Bruce Tyler wrote:

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Without God in our lives we are destined for eternal Doom...If you do not believe in God but feel it's ok to bring up a child in a gay house hold,Don't you think they will be Confused.

NO.

Bruce Tyler wrote:

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We all need guidance in our lives..Some kind of higher power.I have nothing against the gay community,but marriage is out..Just live together and keep your sinful lives to yourself.
http://tylerinc.blogspot.com

Nothing against the gay community-keep your sinful lives to yourself. I'm pretty sure this was very contradictory. Why don't you tell us how you really feel.

Vyxyn wrote:

Mark -- that's the troll we know -- taking over someone else's name.

Thanks Vyxyn, I was wondering, but don't like to assume.

Sam Bareback wrote:

<quoted text>
Grudes?
Your inane passive support of PEDOPHILES is disgusting.
You support your CULT of PEDOPHILES with your time, alleged talents and your MONEY.
That, in it's essence, supports the RAPES of CHILDREN.
Get a clue TONY the Pony, you're being played for a fool and you play the part willingly and well.

Dude you don't know what the **** you're talking about so back up off me.

Bruce Tyler wrote:

<quoted text>
I just wanted to make a quick comment...Do all gays Deny the church's authority?...The Bible clearly states the marraige is between a man and a Woman.Maybe thats the problem with our country,Without God in our lives we are destined for eternal Doom...If you do not believe in God but feel it's ok to bring up a child in a gay house hold,Don't you think they will be Confused.We all need guidance in our lives..Some kind of higher power.I have nothing against the gay community,but marriage is out..Just live together and keep your sinful lives to yourself.
http://tylerinc.blogspot.com

Hello Bruce.

1. Yes I absolutely deny the church's authority. The only authority I am concerned with is God's. And I am very aware of and appreciative of my prayerful relationship with God. I am also gay, and could not have faced that without Him.

2. My life is no more sinful than yours. Everyone is a sinner. But being gay is not one of my sins.

3. My research has shown me alternate meanings to the Bible passages that at first seem to condemn homosexuality. I suggest you might do some research in this regard as well.

4. If you think it is ok to deny marriage to me because of those passages, can you explain to me why you would not deny marriage to the Jews? After all, honoring the Sabbath is not just mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned many more times than any perceived references to homosexuality, and in fact it is one of the ten commandments. Most Christians believe the Sabbath is Sunday. But the jews celebrate it on Saturday. By your logic, they are going against the Bible and sinning. If you fight against my marriage, I think you'd put yourself in the position of having to fight Jewish marriages as well.

Not to mention everyone who works at Wal-Mart on Sundays...they aren't following the Bible. And I bet most of them are unrepentant about that.

no..........

STR-8 wrote:

So you were 'Blinded by the Light' by writings other than those in the Bible.
.. Is that what you're saying Tony ?

There is no light in the bible. If that were at all true, it would be able to illuminate itself in the dark to be read by even people who have no light.

No miracles are forthcoming, the work on earth has to be done by logic and with sweat. To do that, the bible must be put up on the shelf as it will not double your fish and loaves.

Henceforth, gays are allowed to walk hand in hand upon the earth, and gays saw that this was good and became productive members of society and shared their kindness among the inhabitants thereof.

rumple wrote:

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There is no light in the bible. If that were at all true, it would be able to illuminate itself in the dark to be read by even people who have no light.
No miracles are forthcoming, the work on earth has to be done by logic and with sweat. To do that, the bible must be put up on the shelf as it will not double your fish and loaves.
Henceforth, gays are allowed to walk hand in hand upon the earth, and gays saw that this was good and became productive members of society and shared their kindness among the inhabitants thereof.

Um.. excuse me Mr. Righteous, but gays should be locked up in an institution and made to stare at hardcore porn for 3 months solid, so they can go out a straight man. Hmph

STR-8 wrote:

So you were 'Blinded by the Light' by writings other than those in the Bible.
.. Is that what you're saying Tony ?

I have no idea what this means, but I love that song - written by BRUCE da man.

Care to answer this one:

If you think it is ok to deny marriage to me because of those passages, can you explain to me why you would not deny marriage to the Jews? After all, honoring the Sabbath is not just mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned many more times than any perceived references to homosexuality, and in fact it is one of the ten commandments. Most Christians believe the Sabbath is Sunday. But the jews celebrate it on Saturday. By your logic, they are going against the Bible and sinning. If you fight against my marriage, I think you'd put yourself in the position of having to fight Jewish marriages as well.

Humble Bigot wrote:

<quoted text>Um.. excuse me Mr. Righteous, but gays should be locked up in an institution and made to stare at hardcore porn for 3 months solid, so they can go out a straight man. Hmph

Yet another example of pure stupidity.

Your idea has been tried. It has never worked.

Further, there is no reason to put someone through such nonsense because there is nothing wrong with being gay.

Your religion and/or your interpretation of the Bible have no place in the laws of the United States.

You're going to have to argue this on non-religious terms, as it will be argued in court.

You're going to have to prove that same-sex marriage causes measurable, real, tangible harm (not just hurt feelings) in order to stop it from being recognized.

Humble Bigot wrote:

<quoted text>Um.. excuse me Mr. Righteous, but gays should be locked up in an institution and made to stare at hardcore porn for 3 months solid, so they can go out a straight man. Hmph

Now mr Humble I think thats a right good plan. as long as folks like yall are locked in an institution & made to stare at the mirror for 3 months solid sos yall can see what bigoted ignorent fools yall are. folks careful where yall step. looks like a dogs been here.

Deb wrote:

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Now mr Humble I think thats a right good plan. as long as folks like yall are locked in an institution & made to stare at the mirror for 3 months solid sos yall can see what bigoted ignorent fools yall are. folks careful where yall step. looks like a dogs been here.

maybe the mistake we are all making is responding to these obviously ignorant, confused, and misguided bigots ! perhaps they should be treated like the small children they are behaving as ie ignoring them or placing them in time out until they bring themselves under control and behave in a socially appropriate manner.

do we have a big enough time out corner for folks such as humble bigot and friends ?

STR-8 wrote:

Just to clarify my position:
I am 'Pro- Civil Union' and 'Anti- Same Sex Marriage'.

ah but have you have presented a problem ?

civil union = recognized by the government (meaning, i'm assuming, the united states government)

marriage = recognized by the church (meaning accepted by whose church / religion ?)

my religion not only accepts me it embraces me and the person i have chosen to spend my life with

where does that leave us ?

STR-8 wrote:

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You're admission that you don't know what the expression 'Blinded by the Light' means explains it all to me.
Do you really think that the 'Heaven or Hell' decision pivots around which day you worship? I don't.
And, I never said that anyone was sinning, did I? In fact I seldom delve into Bible teachings because I haven't opened one in over 55 years.
I once dubbed you as 'a psychic'.
*shocked* Are you an 'ORACLE' too?

I know what BBTL means. Don't try to paint me as stupid - it will never work. I didn't know what point you were trying to make by your post.

If you are not one of those on the sinner bandwagon (and if you are not Bill/Ted/Ned/etc. then I apologize because even other posters who are more familiar with the regulars here have suggested they/you are all the same person) then what are your objections to gay marriage?

You are going to have to be able to prove tangible harm.

scuter pie wrote:

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ah but have you have presented a problem ?
civil union = recognized by the government (meaning, i'm assuming, the united states government)
marriage = recognized by the church (meaning accepted by whose church / religion ?)
my religion not only accepts me it embraces me and the person i have chosen to spend my life with
where does that leave us ?

Yes there is always this assumption that because THEIR church won't marry someone, no church will.

There of plenty of churches who already perform same-sex weddings. You don't get to judge those churches. If their opposite-sex marriages are recognized, then so should the same-sex marriages.

It is also a myth that marriage is purely a religious term. If two straight atheists go to a judge, they still got "married."