MANILA: China to Philippines: Quit Scarborough Shoal

teeheeManny wrote:

guam has been discovered by spain...
guam is ruled by the spanish rule in manila...
when the spain lost the war against u.s., spain ceded the philippines and guam to u.s....
but when u.s. controlled these islands, the americans seperated guam from the philippines w/o the consultation of the people of the philippines and guam
Joel W
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Guam has a natural affiliation with the Philippines and it should be returned to that nation if they want that to happen.

Guam was never under Philippine rule. We don't claim Guam because like Cev said, it is not within our 200 mile EEZ. How difficult is this to understand?

Manny Pacquiao wrote:

<quoted text>
Guam was never under Philippine rule. We don't claim Guam because like Cev said, it is not within our 200 mile EEZ. How difficult is this to understand?

Not claim Guam because puppet master say "Sock Puppet, do as you are told. Sock Puppets job is make trouble with China. Have rusty old ship with no radar, makes good coffin for sock puppets!" Show world how good a sock puppet you can be!"

Cev wrote:

<quoted text>
Shaddap little penis man.
Hurt much that 'haha' insulted your tiny little brother down there?

Old China is English Gentlaman, good education, mild manners. Cev is poor pinoy fisherman education. English gentlman has big penis, pinoy penis smaller by half. Therefore old china defeat Cev. Cev, next time post to old china look at penis first. But maybe Cev father is US navy, mother loves US navy 100 peso each, very rich. Therefore Cev has fathers small head, small head has all the brains. big head just empty with big stupid mouth!

Cev wrote:

Curious.
If some of my posts using my iphone does not reflect on my laptop.
hm..

I use Explorer and Firefox and the same thing happens. perhaps it is Topix, perhaps it is the way they have some fun. Perhaps it is just one of the quirks of the web. I don't think it will cause WW111 and it makes Topix more fun!!

The Chinese government decided to claim the entire south china sea during 1947 all based on a navigational map back in the 1200's. Does the Chinese government control the entire south china sea now? The answer is obviously NO. Therefore China does not have sovereignty over the entire south china sea contrary to your government's claim during 1947.

The 1947 chinese 9 dash line claim includes the scarborough shoal, for the information of the other readers. What the Chinese government is doing now is occupying other country's territories, not just the Philippines, and that is illegal.

Cable 08BEIJING3499, sent to Washington by the US embassy in Beijing in September 9, 2008, said a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) official and a local scholar could not identify specific historical records to justify China's "Nine Dashes"
claim that covers the whole Spratlys and areas within other countries' exclusive economic zones (EEZs).

MFA Department of Treaty and Law Oceans and Law of the Sea Division Deputy Director Yin Wenqiang told a US embassy political officer on August 30, 2008 that "China has indisputable sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters."
However, the US official said "Yin admitted he is not aware of the historical basis for the 'Nine Dashes'" and only mentioned
unspecified "Chinese historical documents" that indicate the basis for China's claims on territory west of the Philippines, according to the cable.

The US official also talked to Beijing University Asia scholar Yang Baoyun about China's claims. Yang said China's claims "date back to ancient times, prior to the development of the modern nation-state." "Neither MFA's Yin nor Beijing University's Yang could specify a historical document that indicated the basis for the
demarcation of the 'Nine Dashes'," the cable added.

China's historical evidence is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. And everything is just based on what their government claiming. No pictures available on the net or newspapers. The Chinese government is just fabricating LIES about their history.

Why won't any Chinese post a link of their historical evidence???

Repost:

For the enlightenment of our Chinamen posters (wumaos included) and for the enjoyment of both our Filipino and International posters here is a summary of China's historical claims vs the Philippines:

1. Our issue is sovereignty.

2. We all know that to have sovereignty, one should have history, use and control of an area.

3. China claims the ENTIRE south china sea because of a map made by an astronomer in the 1200's.

4. This map is the only basis for China's claim over the area.

5. Have you seen the map? I can't find the ancient map over the internet or the newspapers. Could be fake, but assuming it's not (let's be fair to the chinamen)....

6. The map was clearly used for fishing, but as some scholars have suggested, there might have been no clear indication that these waters are part of China's sovereignty.(i can't judge for myself as i cannot find the map anywhere)

7. China's REAL claim to the area started in the 1950's. With the said map as their basis. Please do not be confused by news reports saying that China has been claiming these islands since the 1200's. This idea is just plain stupid.

8. China has never occupied scarborough shoal as this shoal is uninhabitable, has never exercised control over the area even up to now because Philippine vessels are still in that area.

9. The philippine's claim over the area can also be based on a map made in the 1700's(Carta Hydrographical y Chorographical De Las Yslas Filipinas by Fr. Pedro Murilo Velarde, S.J. and published in 1734). The difference with China's and the Philippine's map is that the Philippine map has a clear indication that since the time the map was made, scarborough shoal, known then as bajo de masinloc, is part of masinloc, zambales. Under full jurisdiction then of the spaniards.

Repost:

10. China and the philippines are both signatories to UNCLOS.

11. The philippines issued a presidential decree to integrate the newly signed unclos into its constitution. Direct changing of the constitution in the philippines is not practical and would consume a lot of government resources, but the presidential decree is as effective.

12. This presidential decree has been approved in the united nations, and china being a signatory to unclos accepted this by their non protest.

13. This made scarborough and the spratly's officially part of philippine sovereign territory.

14. Unclos, being the most recent 'contract' between countries carries more weight over all other 'contracts'.(with the same respect that contracts made between countries today will be more binding than contracts made centuries ago)

15. With Scarborough being unhabitable, proximity is a big factor. 120 miles from the philippines vs 500 miles frim china says it all.

16. Therefore to sum up, china's real claim with evidence to sovereignty started only during the 1950's whereas the philippines claim to it with evidence of sovereignty existed as early as te 1700's.

17. With both parties being signatories in UNCLOS, China has affirmed that Scarborough is owned by the Philippines

18. And China again confirmed this when the Philippines received no complaints from China when it issued a presidential decree affirming Philippine sovereignty over scarborough.

19. It is therefore without doubt, that the Philippines is the rightful owner of scarborough shoal and that its sovereignty is indisputable.

20. So mote it be.

Repost:

Summary

1. China has no plans to start a shooting match (but the fired on philippine civilian ships to drive them away)

2. that China has no plans to escalate the situation beyond the present standoff (uhm.. Shot at us, harrassed our ships, drove very close to our ships at high speeds, chinese general said start a small scale war, also said build a base there, increased the number of both military and fishing vessels, etcetcetc...)

3. that the Philippines claim they aren't looking for or in the position to start a shooting match, that if fired upon then China will respond in kind,(philippines is not the aggressor here. It's china.)

4. that the USA isn't looking for a war with China, that China isn't looking for a war with the Philippines or the USA,(good. Judging from the number of times you mentioned 'USA', then your government knows ehat will happen if they use force.)

5. that China will entertain diplomatic discussions with the Philippines,(bilateral only again as usual)

6. that China wont entertain "independent" arbitration, that the world would be a sorry and chaotic place if any country could unilaterally drag another country to court on a sovereignty claim,(still scared of going to international court, there is a DISPUTE. best way is to resolve it in court, before a neutral arbiter.)

7. that the Philippines brought out their warship and if they were looking for a peaceful settlement then why was she still on station,(wrong understanding, if not done intentionally. BRP Gregorio Del Pilar, the decommissioned US coast guard cutter, is not in scarborough shoal. What China wanted the Philippines to do was to withdraw ALL of our ships in the area, so that we can have a peaceful settlement of the situation.)

8. that there was peace until the Philippines decided to start shooting off at the mouth (China illegally enters our territory and claims it and China expects us to keep silent about it? Fu#%€£ you!)(that area was peacefully under our control until the Chinese came in.)

9. that nobody from the Chinese government had made any official statements on the issue,(then who are we talking to?)

10. that the Philippines were not getting support from other countries who were keeping their heads down because they also had sovereignty disputes with other countries which may have included the Philippines and China,(Asean members have informally symphatized with the Philippine secretary of foreign affairs. My take is they are on a wait and see stance.)

11. that the USA had declared their neutrality, that the USA had increased their aid to the Philippines and that may cause friction between the USA and China, that the Philippines were trying to promote themselves as a regional power for the benefit of the USA,(you really believe the USA is neutral huh..)

12. that the relationship between China and the USA was very important to both China and the USA, that the situation was likely to continue as neither side looked ready to compromise.(just go to court, please.)

13. What they didn't address was the basis of the Chinese or Philippine claims to any extent.(because they will lose? China NEVER discussed their claims to the area in detail. Try to look for it you won't find it anywhere. They just say it's a historical claim based on a map. Don't you find it questionable?)

14. A pity but I guess airing a defence publically isn’t going to help (of course not! Not for China anyways. They'll be the laughing stock of the world if their defense for their claims is only a fishing map)

red dragon wrote:

<quoted text>Not claim Guam because puppet master say "Sock Puppet, do as you are told. Sock Puppets job is make trouble with China. Have rusty old ship with no radar, makes good coffin for sock puppets!" Show world how good a sock puppet you can be!"

1. wahahahaha, i agree, they use millions to buy floating coffin for them to sleep.

Repost:

Too many posts but only handful were insightful and debatable argument. The rest however were rubbish, personal attacks and off topic retaliatory bashing due to defeatism. I ought to stick replying to a decent reasoning I've read here. I perceive that China doesn't want to go to international courts/UN tribunal because theres no need to when you ought to defend what rightfully or morally belongs top them. But the thing is wheteher China likes it or not, there is undeniably an existing STAND OFF on such right of ownership.

If China believed that Scarborough Shoal is under their possession and control....

How come China did nothing when US & Philippine Navy do navy gun practice then in the area? Shouldn't have they asserted their sovereign rule regardless of circumstances?

How come China cannot raise a permanent flag or utilise the shoal at their full disposal, rather resorting to shady and secretive activities in the area?

Shouldn't the 2 Chinese surveillance ships who blocked the Philippine vessel's path into arresting the Chinese fishermen be the ones apprehending the trespassing filipino vessel?

The fact that there were bilateral talks (which is FAILING obviously as NO ONE tends to give way), the next civilized/educated/diplomatic/ legal step is to EXHAUST AVAILABLE LEGAL MEANS. I, as from the international community, were surprised -- shouldn't China be the one initiating to bring Philippines before UN tribunal for trespassing? It's their right to do so, given that the shoal is "100% theirs". Yet it's the other way around.

So having read a lot about the issue, provided neither of the 2 nations would give way, am I right to assume that China would rather wage WAR than exhaust available educated/diplomatic/legal/civi lized means(UN)? Isn't it a barbaric mindset that you'd rather wage bullying/intimidation than battle of wits on legal grounds with neutral arbitration? How barbaric and Nazi isn't it?

Honestly, if the main idea of not bringing it to court is "China has nothing to gain but everything lose" while "Philippines has everything to gain but nothing to lose" is rubbish. China is so confident Scarbrough Shoal is theirs and can overwhelmingly prove it legally before UN anytime anyday, so why even entertain every ounce of fear on the above idea? Likewise it's the perfect opportunity to shut other claimants up, and sinking all the stubborn trespassing ships is now justifiable. Spare us the bollocks on the fear of not having neutral arbitration before UN. If one has lost much faith in UN, by all means LEAVE and ISOLATE itself from the rest of the diplomatic world!

Repost:

Writing out the non-han

The conflict between the Philippines and China over the Scarborough Shoal may appear at first sight a minor dispute over an uninhabitable rock and surrounding shallow waters. But it is hugely important because it encapsulates China's assumption that the histories of the non-Han peoples whose lands border two-thirds of the waters known in English as the South China Sea are irrelevant.

The Philippine case over Scarborough has been mostly presented as one of geography. The feature is 135 nautical miles from Luzon, the main Philippine island, and roughly 350 miles from the mainland of China and 300 miles from the tip of Taiwan. It is thus also well within the Philippines' Exclusive Economic Zone.

China leapfrogs these inconvenient geographical truths to come up with justifications of its claims which can be applied to the whole South China Sea and thus justify the dotted line on map which vaguely defines them. This line has never been precisely delineated but comes well within the 200-mile limits of all the other countries, and close to Indonesia's gas-rich Natuna islands.

In the case of the Scarborough Shoal, its historical justification is that this rock and surrounding shallow water is mentioned in a Chinese map of the 13th century when China itself was under alien - Mongol - rule. The fact that a vessel from China had visited the shoal and recorded its existence has thus become one basis for its claim. Very similar pieces of history are trotted out to justify claims to other islands visited by ships from China. Likewise, China's assumption of hegemony is often based on the fact that foreign merchant ships had to pay taxes to trade with China.

History, however, shows that Chinese sailors were latecomers to the South China Sea, let alone to onward trade to the Indian Ocean. The seagoing history of the region, at least for the first millennium of the current era, was dominated by the ancestors of today's Indonesians, Malays, Filipinos and (less directly) Vietnamese. Thus, as China's own records reveal, when the 4th century Buddhist pilgrim Fa Hsien, went to Sri Lanka, he travelled from China to Sumatra and then on to Sri Lanka in Malay ships.

This tension in the SCS in fact plays very well in the Philippines favor.

The Scarborough has never been a very strong case for China and this standoff further demonstrates to International Community the clumsy manner with which China is locking itself in: a maze of ambiguities, imbroglios and incoherency.

For one, we can observe that there is no official mention of the “dotted line” in all statements by China and media for this incident. Is it so embarrassing to mention China “undisputable historical waters”?

For two, we can observe another imaginative use of historical records. Xinhua for example, in its “Backgrounder: Basic facts on China’s sovereignty over Huangyan Island”, cited first the argument of the astronomer Guo Shoujing alledgely selecting the Scarborough as an astronomical survey point (in 1279). Now knowing that the shoal is at more than 500 miles from Hainan, one may asks why Guo selected this place for his observations? Sure he must justify to his emperor why. In fact, if you dig further into the issue, you will discover that there is no historical account by Guo, or by anyone in his team or administration, of Guo ever setting foot on any rock of the Scarborough. No map, no expedition preparation, no report of the difficulties of maing observations on rocks. Either the ancient scientists were sloppy in their reports, or today’s Chinese scientists (a very few of them) have been overzealous in interpreting history.

For three, even if, with a big stretch of imagination, we accept that an (Chinese) astronomer, under the commission a (Mongol) administration, knew and use the Scarborough for some scientific purpose, it would not be a title of discovery, and certainly a proof of sovereingty for TODAY’s China. We can ask ourselves why the next date cited by Xinhua for facts administrative Chinese acts on the shoal is 1935? What happens during the centuries in between? In summary, nothing before 1279 and suddenly this very far away place (and dangerous for navigation) was “selected”, then forgotten for centuries… Really “undisputable proofs”?

For four, the standoff started by the incident of Philippines forces inspecting alledgely Chinese fishermen catching endangered species. China imposed its unilateral moratorium on fishing above 12-degree latitude (as if the whole SCS is already under China’s administration). Let’s see if China will keep the fishing boats (and the Maritime Patrol vessels to protect them) near the Scarborough. If not the situation will de-escalate due to the self-imposed, scientifically illogical and unlawful annual Chinese unilateral fishing moratorium!

Repost:

China was asked to provide the 1279 map………………and the CCP hasn’t been able to do so! China was also asked to provide the exact coordinates that prove the 9 or 11 dash line ownership according to ancient Chinese claims………..and the CCP also wasn’t able to produce any documentation to support their claims!

The fact that the CCP can’t show anyone these Yuan Dyanasty maps is most revealing!

What you don’t understand is that any nation who signs UNCLOS gives up the old ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims from the past to adopt the UNCLOS agreement. That being that 12 miles is considered sovereign territory, the next 200 miles is international waters, but any resources ( such as fisheries ) belong to the host nation within 200 miles of their nearest habited coastline, and any disputes between nations will be decided under the tribunal to decide the settlement!

Also, you got it wrong again! The US actually honors UNCLOS, but doesn’t sign the treaty because it would mean the US would be bound to give up our own ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims in the North Pole, and the US ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims at Antartica!

Since Luzon is only 125 miles away from Scarborough Shoal, while the nearest habited land for China is Hainan island, located 1400 km to 1800 km away from Scarborough Shoal…………..shows why China is doomed to lose the tribunal under UNCLOS!

The historical fact is that China signed UNCLOS in 1994, and gave up their ‘ancient claims’ or ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims as a result!

The US not signing UNCLOS was actually smart because the US still can place claims under the old system via ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims, while China cannot legally do so anymore because they signed UNCLOS!

So who’s credibility looks worse to you? The US who didn’t sign UNCLOS, but respects the 12 mile sovereign territory guidelines of UNCLOS? Or China who signed UNCLOS, but violates the UNCLOS agreement everyday with her neighbors in the Yellow Sea and South China Seas?

Seer wrote:

Repost:
10. China and the philippines are both signatories to UNCLOS.
11. The philippines issued a presidential decree to integrate the newly signed unclos into its constitution. Direct changing of the constitution in the philippines is not practical and would consume a lot of government resources, but the presidential decree is as effective.
12. This presidential decree has been approved in the united nations, and china being a signatory to unclos accepted this by their non protest.
13. This made scarborough and the spratly's officially part of philippine sovereign territory.
14. Unclos, being the most recent 'contract' between countries carries more weight over all other 'contracts'.(with the same respect that contracts made between countries today will be more binding than contracts made centuries ago)
15. With Scarborough being unhabitable, proximity is a big factor. 120 miles from the philippines vs 500 miles frim china says it all.
16. Therefore to sum up, china's real claim with evidence to sovereignty started only during the 1950's whereas the philippines claim to it with evidence of sovereignty existed as early as te 1700's.
17. With both parties being signatories in UNCLOS, China has affirmed that Scarborough is owned by the Philippines
18. And China again confirmed this when the Philippines received no complaints from China when it issued a presidential decree affirming Philippine sovereignty over scarborough.
19. It is therefore without doubt, that the Philippines is the rightful owner of scarborough shoal and that its sovereignty is indisputable.
20. So mote it be.

1. your post full of lies and inventing stories, just like the many other post of ce_v_ampire, not worthy to pay attention to it. you mosquitoes, you are expert in telling lies and inventing false stories. you mosquitoes are good in doing that. also using your people hardship money to buy floating coffin.

2. during the Chin dynasty, china already claims all the island of south china sea, the philippines back then were colonies of spain including guam. and was under spain and usa. their treaties and political map does not include south china island. at the turn of 20th century. in 1911, the modern republic of china was founded, and china has claim it.

3. in the 1920's china already has the precise map of south china island, its included in the 9 dash line. the philippines back then were colonies of usa. they don't claim it not until in the 1970's when oil was found. but in modern times, china is at least 50 years earlier than the phil to claim or hundreds of years earlier including the ancient time history, the phil claims has no basis. they are the illegal intruder.

Seer wrote:

Repost:
China was asked to provide the 1279 map………………and the CCP hasn’t been able to do so! China was also asked to provide the exact coordinates that prove the 9 or 11 dash line ownership according to ancient Chinese claims………..and the CCP also wasn’t able to produce any documentation to support their claims!
The fact that the CCP can’t show anyone these Yuan Dyanasty maps is most revealing!
What you don’t understand is that any nation who signs UNCLOS gives up the old ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims from the past to adopt the UNCLOS agreement. That being that 12 miles is considered sovereign territory, the next 200 miles is international waters, but any resources ( such as fisheries ) belong to the host nation within 200 miles of their nearest habited coastline, and any disputes between nations will be decided under the tribunal to decide the settlement!
Also, you got it wrong again! The US actually honors UNCLOS, but doesn’t sign the treaty because it would mean the US would be bound to give up our own ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims in the North Pole, and the US ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims at Antartica!
Since Luzon is only 125 miles away from Scarborough Shoal, while the nearest habited land for China is Hainan island, located 1400 km to 1800 km away from Scarborough Shoal…………..shows why China is doomed to lose the tribunal under UNCLOS!
The historical fact is that China signed UNCLOS in 1994, and gave up their ‘ancient claims’ or ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims as a result!
The US not signing UNCLOS was actually smart because the US still can place claims under the old system via ‘Doctrine of Discovery’ claims, while China cannot legally do so anymore because they signed UNCLOS!
So who’s credibility looks worse to you? The US who didn’t sign UNCLOS, but respects the 12 mile sovereign territory guidelines of UNCLOS? Or China who signed UNCLOS, but violates the UNCLOS agreement everyday with her neighbors in the Yellow Sea and South China Seas?

1. the seer from caloocan phil. you are only posting rubbish, rubbish, you are wasting the forum space. making noise and post rubbish, rubbish

China sea claims threat to Asia peace: Manila

MANILA — China's bold claims of control over the South China Sea are one of the biggest threats to peace in Southeast Asia, Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario warned Friday.
The threat concerns not only the rival claimants to the hotly contested area, but also all other entities using the waters for shipping, he said in a speech at a Manila university.
Chinese naval vessels have fired warning volleys at Filipino fishermen, harassed an oil exploration vessel and put up markers on Philippine waters this year after China outlined its "9-dash claim" to the sea in 2009, he said.
"If Philippine sovereign rights can be denigrated by this baseless claim, many countries should begin to contemplate the potential threat to freedom of navigation in the South China Sea," he said.
"The imperative to speak frankly was borne out of an enormous sense of exigency and urgency... to one of the greatest threats to the stability of our progressive Southeast Asian neighbourhood."
Tensions have risen in recent months, with countries in the region claiming China has been more aggressive in enforcing its claims on parts of the South China Sea.
China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims to all or parts of the sea, which is believed to be rich in oil and gas deposits.
Del Rosario repeated calls for UN arbitration on the disputes and for all claimants to jointly develop disputed sections, while asserting Manila's sovereign right to explore for oil and gas deposits on its own in the sea's Reed Bank section.
The Philippine energy department announced plans this week to auction off areas of the South China Sea for oil exploration, despite worsening territorial rows with China, which prefers bilateral talks on the disputes.
The Filipino plan drew an angry response from China's official media, which accused the Philippines of violating a 2002 declaration between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations for self-restraint on the dispute.
A China Daily editorial on Friday pointedly singled out the Philippines as it said the Chinese government would not allow its territory to be nibbled away.
"There could well be a high price to pay for any misjudgment on the South China Sea issue by countries like the Philippines," it said.

China bullying tactic:

China's newest strategy, a trap for its opponents Navy

The standoff happening in Panatag Shoal is part of China's newest strategy to assert its claim in SCS. They use so called "civilian ships" armed with lighter caliber of naval guns. It can be a part of their strategy to lessen their headache of "Bully image"... Or it could be a trap for its opponents either Vietnamese Navy or Philippine Navy. It is a trap for navy because they use white ships against grey ships(navy), if VN/PN fires its shot it will make them reasonable to use their grey ships against VN/PN without causing too much condemnation in the international community, it will make an image against PN/VN using overkill force against a civilian maritime ships...

For now there are questions will be:

Is it time to add the number of PCG ships?

What naval guns you will use for PCG? lighter or larger?

naval guns against naval guns, because you don't armed a civilian ships with missile... And subs are not part of this strategy because if China's subs fire shot to a civilian ships like PCG ships it will portray them more as bully and condemnation will be expected from the international community...

This strategy will not affect VN/PN but also the USN and other navies,..

Seer wrote:

The Chinese government decided to claim the entire south china sea during 1947 all based on a navigational map back in the 1200's. Does the Chinese government control the entire south china sea now? The answer is obviously NO. Therefore China does not have sovereignty over the entire south china sea contrary to your government's claim during 1947.
The 1947 chinese 9 dash line claim includes the scarborough shoal, for the information of the other readers. What the Chinese government is doing now is occupying other country's territories, not just the Philippines, and that is illegal.
Cable 08BEIJING3499, sent to Washington by the US embassy in Beijing in September 9, 2008, said a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) official and a local scholar could not identify specific historical records to justify China's "Nine Dashes"
claim that covers the whole Spratlys and areas within other countries' exclusive economic zones (EEZs).
MFA Department of Treaty and Law Oceans and Law of the Sea Division Deputy Director Yin Wenqiang told a US embassy political officer on August 30, 2008 that "China has indisputable sovereignty over the islands in the South China Sea and the adjacent waters."
However, the US official said "Yin admitted he is not aware of the historical basis for the 'Nine Dashes'" and only mentioned
unspecified "Chinese historical documents" that indicate the basis for China's claims on territory west of the Philippines, according to the cable.
The US official also talked to Beijing University Asia scholar Yang Baoyun about China's claims. Yang said China's claims "date back to ancient times, prior to the development of the modern nation-state." "Neither MFA's Yin nor Beijing University's Yang could specify a historical document that indicated the basis for the
demarcation of the 'Nine Dashes'," the cable added.
China's historical evidence is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. And everything is just based on what their government claiming. No pictures available on the net or newspapers. The Chinese government is just fabricating LIES about their history.
Why won't any Chinese post a link of their historical evidence???

yup, and when China claim all SCS in 1947 there were no other countries lay any claim on it, including philippine until 1991 after China discovered lot oil deposit in SCS, then phil came to claim part of SCS (if I'm wrong, please correct me). What a opportunist philipine is, don't you agree.

old china wrote:

<quoted text>
UNCLOS is a mixture of good law and bad law and the USA know it. She isn't going to be in a hurry to commit herself to UNCLOS for the same reasons why she has already rejected it. Even with UNCLOS in place in the USA it still isn't going to make UNCLOS any more enforceable or improve your claim. China has refused arbitration and is offering direct talks - all within the terms of UNCLOS. For you and or the USA to offer violence is contrary to UNCLOS.

Facts please. I have an article that says USA did not reject UNCLOS but merely shelved it. They want to be part of UNCLOS now.

Probably so that if they start a war with you, they can justify it. lol.

Old China, i caught you lying again.. tsktsktsk.

pinoysickestnation wrote:

<quoted text>yup, and when China claim all SCS in 1947 there were no other countries lay any claim on it, including philippine until 1991 after China discovered lot oil deposit in SCS, then phil came to claim part of SCS (if I'm wrong, please correct me). What a opportunist philipine is, don't you agree.

1. you are right, china official claim was chin dynasty or earlier, in 1911, the founding of modern republic of china, china already claim the south china sea island, as early as 1920's 30's china modern map already include the spratly and others. the phil opportunist, they don't claim, they are under spain and usa. no felupeno live on those island. it is not their land.

2. the phil politician are only greedy, they start claim in the 80's 90's, hundreds of years after china chin dynasty has claim.(in 70's oil was discover within the 9 dash line.)