Macedonian leaders discuss UN mediator's proposals in name dispute

Istor wrote:

<quoted text>
No, as long as we all recognize that Thessaloniki, Edessa, Kastoria, Florina are Macedonian names while Solun, Voden, Kostur, Lerin are Bulgarian.

Sho stori be isto
Abe koa taka
Sega ali snoshchi
That is absolute rubbish
Those names are Macedonian.

Ozz wrote:

<quoted text>
...
Those names are Macedonian.

Indeed they are: Thessaloniki, Edessa, Kastoria, Florina

Ozz wrote:

<quoted text>
Sho stori be isto
Abe koa taka
Sega ali snoshchi
That is absolute rubbish
Those names are Macedonian.

"During medieval and modem times, Macedonia was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks."

"The emergence of a Macedonian nationality is an offshoot of the joint Macedonian and Bulgarian struggle against Hellenization. With the establishment of an independent Bulgarian state and church in the 1870s, however, the conflict took a new turn. Until this time the distinction between “Macedonian” and “Bulgarian” hardly existed beyond the dialect differences between standard “eastern” Bulgarian and that spoken in the region of Macedonia."

"MODERN SLAVS, BOTH BULGARIANS AND MACEDONIANS, CANNOT ESTABLISH A LINK WITH ANTIQUITY, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity."

"…the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians."

"The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, WHO HAVE HAD NO HISTORY, NEED ONE. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called ”Macedonia” for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation “Macedonia” and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival."

"It is difficult to know whether an independent Macedonian state would have come into existence had Tito not recognized and supported the development of Macedonian ethnicity as part of his ethnically organized Yugoslavia. He did this as a counter to Bulgaria, which for centuries had a historical claim on the area as far west as Lake Ohrid and the present border of Albania."

“Macedonia Redux”, Eugene N. Borza, The Eye Expanded: Life and the Arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity, Frances B. Titchener and Richard F. Moorton, Jr., editors

Ozz wrote:

<quoted text>
Sho stori be isto
Abe koa taka
Sega ali snoshchi
That is absolute rubbish
Those names are Macedonian.

Look for them here: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/mai...

GEOROX wrote:

<quoted text>
"During medieval and modem times, Macedonia was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks."
"The emergence of a Macedonian nationality is an offshoot of the joint Macedonian and Bulgarian struggle against Hellenization. With the establishment of an independent Bulgarian state and church in the 1870s, however, the conflict took a new turn. Until this time the distinction between “Macedonian” and “Bulgarian” hardly existed beyond the dialect differences between standard “eastern” Bulgarian and that spoken in the region of Macedonia."
"MODERN SLAVS, BOTH BULGARIANS AND MACEDONIANS, CANNOT ESTABLISH A LINK WITH ANTIQUITY, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity."
"…the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians."
"The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, WHO HAVE HAD NO HISTORY, NEED ONE. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called ”Macedonia” for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation “Macedonia” and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival."
"It is difficult to know whether an independent Macedonian state would have come into existence had Tito not recognized and supported the development of Macedonian ethnicity as part of his ethnically organized Yugoslavia. He did this as a counter to Bulgaria, which for centuries had a historical claim on the area as far west as Lake Ohrid and the present border of Albania."
“Macedonia Redux”, Eugene N. Borza, The Eye Expanded: Life and the Arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity, Frances B. Titchener and Richard F. Moorton, Jr., editors

Georox,
This is so prevalent with you.
You stop and start,jump from left to right.
Go back to the other post and answer that first.
Georox,we established that Macedonia existed,exist's including you Athenians from Biblical times,up until now.Now your saying its an offshoot.
Georox,it is obvious that you clearly don't understand things.
Your mindset is equivalent to a bag of mixed lollies.
Georox,if i was you, i would be steering away from such article as it exposes your ignorance.ie with your propaganda that you continually address that Macedonia has alway's been Greek
Now,you post such articles that Macedonia is an offshoot-A STRUGGLE AGAINST HELLENISM.
Well Georox,if Macedonia was Greek,why would Macedonia try and break away from its own country.
As i said before,it is obvious that you have no thought process of Borza's intention.
He's main aim is to connect it to the past.THATS WHAT HE IS DOING.BUT YOU THE OPPORTUNIST, YOU SEE THE WORD MACEDONIA IS GREEK,AND FOR SOME RIDICULOUS REASON IT BECOMES FINAL FOR YOU.

Itso,nese se drpai.

What happened in 1926 Itso??????????

Macedonia, Illyria & Dardania were established when the Slavs were still in their mother Russia. Any history book will tell you that.

Heres a map for those of you who appear to be brainless. http://i31.tinypic.com/2jant03.jpg

The Cold Hard Truth wrote:

Heres a map for those of you who appear to be brainless. http://i31.tinypic.com/2jant03.jpg

Nice map!

I can read: Thessalonica (NOT SOLUN), Edessa (NOT VODENA)

Good map!

Ozz wrote:

<quoted text>
As i said before,it is obvious that you have no thought process of Borza's intention.

Did I hear Borza???
You know Ozz, I can copy/paste just like you my friend.

"During medieval and modem times, Macedonia was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks."

"The emergence of a Macedonian nationality is an offshoot of the joint Macedonian and Bulgarian struggle against Hellenization. With the establishment of an independent Bulgarian state and church in the 1870s, however, the conflict took a new turn. Until this time the distinction between “Macedonian” and “Bulgarian” hardly existed beyond the dialect differences between standard “eastern” Bulgarian and that spoken in the region of Macedonia."

"MODERN SLAVS, BOTH BULGARIANS AND MACEDONIANS, CANNOT ESTABLISH A LINK WITH ANTIQUITY, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity."

"…the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians."

"The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, WHO HAVE HAD NO HISTORY, NEED ONE. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called ”Macedonia” for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation “Macedonia” and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival."

"It is difficult to know whether an independent Macedonian state would have come into existence had Tito not recognized and supported the development of Macedonian ethnicity as part of his ethnically organized Yugoslavia. He did this as a counter to Bulgaria, which for centuries had a historical claim on the area as far west as Lake Ohrid and the present border of Albania."

“Macedonia Redux”, Eugene N. Borza, The Eye Expanded: Life and the Arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity, Frances B. Titchener and Richard F. Moorton, Jr., editors

Hallo Ozz. It is not my intention to offend you or start calling you names. So lets be calm.

I am not going to claim that I am an expert on Borza nor that I have read everything he has written.

I just have some questions about your correspondence with GEOROX.

From what I see in GEOROX's above post he only quotes Borza whitout interpreting, yes?
You say it yourself to GEOROX: "you have no thought process of Borza's intention".
Is that bad? Why?

You on the other hand argue about Borza that "He's main aim is to connect it to the past".

Is this your own personal interpretation of Borza or he states this explicitly somewhere, and if yes where?
You are entitled to have your personal interpretation off course.

But could you provide your interpetation combined with Borza's quotes on why Borza says the things GEOROX quotes above and elsewhere?

The Cold Hard Truth wrote:

Heres a map for those of you who appear to be brainless. http://i31.tinypic.com/2jant03.jpg

have you ever been to italy you fake greek ! probably NOT! when you go to rome , go to the famous VIA EGNATIA of which there is a map of europe from the 1st century AD. this map has been there for 2 thousand years !!!!!! on this map it clearly state macedonia in its macedonian lands distinct from achea to the south. NO MENTION OF YOUR FAKE STATE OF GREECE HERE ????????? why is that, well you dont have to be einstein to work out that this greek state is a fabrication of the british who named all you ottomans in athens ,gave you a fake king from austria, gave you a population exchange with your turkish brothers 1,500,000. and counting,i cant work out exactly who spoke this greek dialect ? a civil war in 1946 to forcefully ethnically convert all peoples to fake greek, then you ran under the auspisacies of a dictatorship; much worse than communisim,and you try to feed me your bullshit of what i am. i am a MAKEDONEC, fullstop no negotiations required here for only fake greeks sell their souls for money.

the lie detector wrote:

<quoted text>
i am a MAKEDONEC, fullstop

These guys are MACEDONEC as well, fullstop.

http://www.nabble.com/attachment/9778083/1/Pi...

http://www.ce-review.org/01/14/images/vaknin1...

i quess this is a forum for idiots.no history majors here.more propaganda for a name.Macedonia the people of this country were slavs,turks albanian, romanian,jews, for thousand years.they or all macedonian.if you go back to ancient times.greeks hated macedonian infact they hated each other constantwars between the themselves they were city states.only allied against a common enemy persia,macedonia rome

get it right wrote:

i quess this is a forum for idiots.no history majors here.more propaganda for a name.

Macedonia the people of this country were slavs,turks albanian, romanian,jews, for thousand years.

Very convenient that you excluded the Greeks from your "census".
Greeks predate ALL of the above mentioned ethnicities.

I take it you're not only an idiot, but also lack a history degree.

Gigas wrote:

<quoted text>
HAHAHAHAHA, BROTHER GEOROX, THESE ARE MENTALLY DEFICIENT, HANDICAPPED HOMOIDS!!!!! THEY NEED SOMEONE TO CUT THEIR PORKY THROAT AND REDEEM THEM FROM THEIR MISERY!!!!!!

Mentally deficient, no doubt...but nobody needs their throats cut, my friend.
Coolarise ligaki.
Xero oti einai agrammatoi, ala einai kai anthropoi.

GEOROX wrote:

<quoted text>
Very convenient that you excluded the Greeks from your "census".
Greeks predate ALL of the above mentioned ethnicities.
I take it you're not only an idiot, but also lack a history degree.

but you have excluded all but greek s and i am greek myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

GEOROX wrote:

<quoted text>
Very convenient that you excluded the Greeks from your "census".
Greeks predate ALL of the above mentioned ethnicities.
I take it you're not only an idiot, but also lack a history degree.

hes not talk last thousand years not in the begining same problem with jews and arabs