In America, atheists are still in the closet

Apr 11, 2012 Full story: Spiked 47,724

So do many other interest and identity groups. Complaint is our political lingua franca: it's what Occupiers, Tea Partiers, Wall Street titans, religious and irreligious people share.

Full Story

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#17199 Jun 18, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<quoted text>
You were the one who said the UK didn't have freedom of religion. Remember, skippy? I didn't dispute your claim.
Still waiting for you to refute it, SweetCheeks.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#17200 Jun 18, 2012
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>(Edited)Many theists are driven by the desire to go to heaven or be reincarnated into a prince or whatever. But Sufis desire God. They want to have full awareness of God. Their ultimate prize would be full perception of God through all senses. If someone has heaven, they have heaven. But if someone has God, they have everything.
.. a belief which does not spring from an emotional conviction is no belief at all ..

.. you know who you are, what you believe and write accordingly ..

.. you garner respect ..

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#17201 Jun 18, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
I sense a meltdown coming on.
Oh wait...
Barfy's already IN meltdown mode.
He might reach critical mass on this one.
The more evidence you give him that he is in error, the worse the meltdown gets. The then goes into full mode of trying to insult people by calling them names and other childish acts just to get attention as that is all he has left.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#17202 Jun 18, 2012
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that depends on what you mean by reality. Your reality is that there is no god. My reality is that there is. You regard my beliefs as a fantasy while I regard yours as fantasy. I do not see any disconnect from reality from my religion.
I would say some people may be better at coping with differences in beliefs, but most are not. If two different people talk religion, they are bound to disagree at some point and perhaps form opinions of each other. Sometimes resentful opinions. But the same would happen if two people talk politics, or socio-economics. In my country my generation often has a political divide from older generations.
Many things divide people. It's how people are. And your parents think they know what's best for you. Your government thinks they know whats best for you because their illustrious leaders said so. Your company thinks they know what's best for you. In the end, finding your true self is your own responsibility. My religion encouraged me to find my own true self. The rest is all excuses made by men who have no spine to stand on their own and walk their own path.
Yet your religion expects you to remain a member of it. That is not 'finding your own true self'. It is finding what you can get away with and still be a member.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#17203 Jun 18, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<
The freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
SO YOU CANNOT READ?

only to SUCH limitations- there is NOTHING in this agreement that prevents the UK from passing laws that FORCE its STATE RELIGION (you are aware the UK has a state religion) on its populations, E.G>: it can force children to attend collective CHRISTIAN worship.

As it does now.

Required.

By law.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#17205 Jun 18, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Clearly you don't know what "lying" means.
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
You demonstrate it daily, Chibi.
Yes. Clearly I demonstrate that you don't know what lying is. And I do so daily.

In fact, by calling me a liar, you are lying.

You claim to understand English - both ways, you are a liar, little man.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#17206 Jun 18, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
First-year students at the Purdue Vet School were attending their first anatomy class with a real dead cow. They all gathered around the surgery table with the body covered with a white sheet.
The professor started the class by telling them, "In Veterinary medicine it is necessary to have two important qualities as a doctor. The first is that you not be disgusted by anything involving the animal's body."
For an example, the professor pulled back the sheet, stuck his finger in the butt of the cow, withdrew it, and stuck his finger in his mouth. "Go ahead and do the same thing," he told his students.
The students freaked out, hesitated for several minutes, but eventually took turns sticking a finger in the butt of the dead cow and sucking on it.
When everyone finished, the Professor looked at them and said;
"The second most important quality is observation. I stuck in my middle finger and sucked on my index finger. Now learn to pay attention. Life's tough, but it's even tougher if you're stupid."
Paul Ehrlich tells a similar story about a different professor, but with urine.

Apologies, but I believe that one over the dead cow one. However, maybe they're both wrong.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#17207 Jun 18, 2012
Skitz wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair most schools in the UK won't make a child pray if they don't want to. Even without parental consent. No matter what the law says. Fact.
It's hard enough to get kids into school in certain areas, let alone enforce religion on them.
Hopefully, the rule of having Christianity taught in schools will end. But what better way to turn children away from religion than to force it down their throats? That is the reason that even though religion is mandatory to a certain extent, more people are less religious. May it continue.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#17208 Jun 18, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
SO YOU CANNOT READ?
only to SUCH limitations- there is NOTHING in this agreement that prevents the UK from passing laws that FORCE its STATE RELIGION (you are aware the UK has a state religion) on its populations, E.G>: it can force children to attend collective CHRISTIAN worship.
As it does now.
Required.
By law.
True so far as it goes. State religion is a shame on any nation, true enough.

It is true that if there is one thing worse than religion, it is State-sponsored or state-enforced religion.

Religion in UK schools is increasingly scorned, in practice. Religion in schools is bad for society and undermines respect for the law. Of course, religionists are to blame for this state of affairs. When non-belieivers object they are termed 'New Atheists'; or objections are labelled 'aggressive secularism'.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#17209 Jun 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Hopefully, the rule of having Christianity taught in schools will end. But what better way to turn children away from religion than to force it down their throats? That is the reason that even though religion is mandatory to a certain extent, more people are less religious....
My feelings too.
Thanks for your reply above (post 17197).

“Just a very naughty boy.”

Since: Dec 08

Dodge

#17210 Jun 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Hopefully, the rule of having Christianity taught in schools will end. But what better way to turn children away from religion than to force it down their throats? That is the reason that even though religion is mandatory to a certain extent, more people are less religious. May it continue.
It definitely seams to have an impact on furthering our christian faith LOL. I honestly can say the picture of this forced religious worship in the UK that is portrayed on here is simply untrue.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#17211 Jun 18, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>My feelings too.
Thanks for your reply above (post 17197).
It's nice that we have people on here who make sense and are not so obsessed with everything that is said that they continue to harp on it for weeks at a time.

So...
Why do you feel atheists are still in the closet in America?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#17212 Jun 18, 2012
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Well, that depends on what you mean by reality. Your reality is that there is no god. My reality is that there is. You regard my beliefs as a fantasy while I regard yours as fantasy. I do not see any disconnect from reality from my religion.

I would say some people may be better at coping with differences in beliefs, but most are not. If two different people talk religion, they are bound to disagree at some point and perhaps form opinions of each other. Sometimes resentful opinions. But the same would happen if two people talk politics, or socio-economics. In my country my generation often has a political divide from older generations.

Many things divide people. It's how people are. And your parents think they know what's best for you. Your government thinks they know whats best for you because their illustrious leaders said so. Your company thinks they know what's best for you. In the end, finding your true self is your own responsibility. My religion encouraged me to find my own true self. The rest is all excuses made by men who have no spine to stand on their own and walk their own path.
But that's just it. You're NOT walking your own path. You are walking a path laid out by men based largely on demonstratively untrue stories.

Your reality contains an entity that has no evidence whatsoever.

And the differences people of different faiths encounter arise even without directly bringing up religion.

I grew up amongst a large, extended family of Catholics, and I have yet to bring up my atheism. Religion rarely comes up, yet I have always felt separate from them. It's just something subtle, almost undetectable, but ever present.

And if you wear some outward symbol of your religion, you're practically erecting a wall and saying, "These are my beliefs. Don't question them and we'll get along just fine."

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#17213 Jun 18, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>Still waiting for you to refute it, SweetCheeks.
He didn't dispute it.

Why would he refute it?

Dolt.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#17214 Jun 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Yet your religion expects you to remain a member of it. That is not 'finding your own true self'. It is finding what you can get away with and still be a member.
Well put.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#17215 Jun 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> It's nice that we have people on here who make sense and are not so obsessed with everything that is said that they continue to harp on it for weeks at a time.
We do? Who, me??:-)
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>
So...
Why do you feel atheists are still in the closet in America?
Well, I was looking for an answer from USAmericans. That's my interest in this thread.

Two words:‘critical mass’.

The status quo is religious tradition. In the USA, one still has to ‘come out’ as an atheist, much like someone who is gay. Only when non-belief becomes entirely acceptable will we discover how common atheism and agnosticism truly are.

I (rather repetitively) quote Bush41’s comment about atheists not being patriots and citizens. And consider Jerry DeWitt’s position..
http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2012/0...
Just keep pointing out the absurdities and injustices until the penny drops. Increasingly, people will realise that religion is superstition and theology is simply a mythology that is still currently widely believed.

I do not mean to suggest that a ‘critical mass’ of non-believers will be attained in any one particular decade, let alone a year or a month. But I think we are watching the rapid decline of religion and as numbers of non-believers increase, the rate of religion’s decline will increase. Religion will not die out completely,(there are still Satanists, Pagans and Wiccans), but it MAY reduce to such cult status in the UK by 2038. It seems it might take longer in the US and be a slower process. That might have something to do with the disparate size of the nations as well as the different immigration demographies, cultures and traditions.

What do you think?
rider

Ishpeming, MI

#17216 Jun 18, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly you don't know what "lying" means.
Woody Guthrie~ All You Fascists Bound To Lose - YouTube
Jan 4, 2009 ... All You Fascists Bound To Lose (Cover)by Redstar226417 views · Woody ....
Guthrie - Goin Down The Road Feelin Bad (the Asch Recordings)...

- 153k -

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#17218 Jun 18, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Yes. Clearly I demonstrate that you don't know what lying is.
Clearly, you are the liar, Chibi, you fat tiny whiny Momma's boy.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#17219 Jun 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Hopefully, the rule of having Christianity taught in schools will end.
As of today, it is the LAW in the UK.

Now in the USA: this is prohibited. In the USA, we have a CONSTITUTION that prohibits this indoctrination.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#17220 Jun 18, 2012
EdSed wrote:
It is true that if there is one thing worse than religion, it is State-sponsored or state-enforced religion.
When comparing apples to apples, a country that has a state religion and that state FORCES religious instruction on its children, it is not hard to understand why that country would be seen as MORE religious than a country that protects its children from such indoctrinations and which GUARANTEES its citizens religious freedom in its founding document.

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