In America, atheists are still in the closet

Apr 11, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Spiked

So do many other interest and identity groups. Complaint is our political lingua franca: it's what Occupiers, Tea Partiers, Wall Street titans, religious and irreligious people share.

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“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#36550
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>That's a convenient ad hominem substitute for actually knowing something.
But it's true.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

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#36551
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
The clip linked to by Ken Miller has been thoroughly debunked on the flagellum.
The flagellum is irreducibly complex. What Miller proposed as the precursor to the flagellum - the Type III secretory system, has been shown to come as a descendant of the flagellum. The flagellum is a precursor to the TIII system, not vice-versa.
Even if Miller were correct, there remains the irreducible complexity problem for him, as the 40 genes (30 more than the T-3 system) necessary for the flagellum do not produce a selective advantage individually, and could not have occured by natural selection.
This has been shown in great detail by Scott Minnich, along with a host of other scientists.
The flagellum is certainly a fascinating adaptation. So your "Intelligent Designer" hunkered down with his Scanning Electron Microscope and decided he'd help bacteria move so they could deliver their toxins more efficiently? What a guy! That's the best you got?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#36552
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>And they advocate these things intentionally and publicly, just like other groups advocate their particular positions. They advocate achieving these goals by research, education, and investigation, and providing an alternative explanation - Not by secret methods.

So what?

"Materialism" is a philosophy to explain life. They have a different philosophy. They attempt to marshall evidence for it.

So what?

You have yet to identify a "leaked internal document". As far as has been determined, that is a lie.

Barbara Forest and her band of hooligans got hold of it because it was sent out in the mail in a fundraiser. Regular U.S. Mail. It was not registered, required no signature, and no oath of secrecy. Futher, it contained the same information they had made known publicly in a variety of forums.

That is not a "leaked document". Anyone making the claim is lying.
What forums?

And who was on the mailing list?

I bet there were no democrats or liberals on it.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

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#36553
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
1. ID proponents oppose having ID or creationism taught in school.
2. ID is not creationism. The major creationist organizations in the world reject ID.
Being in command of just a couple of simple facts about ID would improve your education, as you presently do not know one thing about it.
If there were an "Intelligent Designer" tweaking on everything from bacterial toxin transportation systems to the pretty swirls of spiral galaxies ... wouldn't that being be very akin to "God" or be exhibiting very God-like abilities? Is not "intelligent designer" (in this context) and "god" synonymous? Why would "creationist organizations" reject ID? They are different sides of the same coin. Do they think God is stupid, creating things un-intelligently?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

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#36554
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow.
I've got natural looking close up photos of monarchs. They were taken shortly after they came out of their cocoon and they still couldn't fly. How deceitful of me.
You believe what you WANT to believe and ONLY what you want to believe.
You're pathetic.
At first, I thought you had photos of Henry VIII, Richard the Lionhearted, Charles I.

One sentence later I knew I was wrong--Henry VIII never made it out of his cocoon.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#36555
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
I'm not sure what evidence it would take to successfully overturn even one tenet of the Darwinian synthesis. It might not even be possible in the modern climate, no matter the evidence. It is hard-shell dogma.
Maybe there is no evidence to overturn the Darwinian synthesis because it is essentially correct in the main.

Any aspect of the modern theory that is in error is susceptible to evidence that indicates that. The secular world is anxious to know what really happened on earth.

Do you think that the scientific community would reject compelling evidence if it came from Behe or Minnich? I don't.

Incidentally, evidence in the sciences is physical, not editorials or opinion pieces. Evidence for the Higgs boson was not a plea or an argument. It was photographs of vapor trails - or whatever the technology is these days.

Words can explain and unify such evidence, but not substitute for it. Pointing at physical structures and calling them designed is not enough. The appearance of the universe is not an argument for a designer.

If they can make an unexpected prediction and confirm it with physical evidence that supports only the ID hypothesis, the ID community will have the mainstream scientific community's riveted attention.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#36556
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>Well, we certainly don't want anything to do with a group that would put fake stuff in school.

...Haeckel, Kettlewell,....

Yes, educational purity is sacred. No fake embryo drawings or moths glued to trees. Nobody claiming he created "synthetic life" in a laboratory.(Venter).

Let's band together and oppose such a movement. OK?
See?

Your whole MO is to refute science and insert ID.

Would you say scientific frauds and fuckups outnumber scientific successes?

Does ID have ANY successes?

We've already seen that it is almost entirely fraudulent.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#36557
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the "wedge document"?
Who produced it and published it?
What does it mean?
Enlighten us with your knowledge on this subject.
Judging by your fervor it was you, as knowing the most about it of all human beings it seems also fair to blame you for it's agenda. Something you would have no concept of "an agenda"
now that we are in fact "here" you will have to "hear" that you will fool no one not a single one who "hears" you or is "here"

Rodger That Good Buddy?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#36558
Aug 20, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>It was not an ad hom, it was concern for your sanity.
Don't waste your concern.

There's no sanity left.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

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#36559
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, we certainly don't want anything to do with a group that would put fake stuff in school.
...Haeckel, Kettlewell,....
Yes, educational purity is sacred. No fake embryo drawings or moths glued to trees. Nobody claiming he created "synthetic life" in a laboratory.(Venter).
Let's band together and oppose such a movement. OK?
The Haeckel drawings have been addressed, I don't see a huge problem with the moths, but that's been rectified too.

The issue of synthetic life isn't a problem to me. So what if it utilized components from other sources?

If an oak tree and a pine tree were modified to be comprised of both types.

Coniciduous? Denifer? I'd consider that synthetic.

I know you probably don't agree.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#36560
Aug 20, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>At first, I thought you had photos of Henry VIII, Richard the Lionhearted, Charles I.

One sentence later I knew I was wrong--Henry VIII never made it out of his cocoon.
And I'm not quite that old.

Almost.

But not quite.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#36561
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
"Materialism" is a philosophy to explain life. They have a different philosophy. They attempt to marshall evidence for it. So what?
I don't mind.
Buck Crick wrote:
You have yet to identify a "leaked internal document". As far as has been determined, that is a lie.
I have identified such a document. And you are not the judge of when I lie.
Buck Crick wrote:
Barbara Forest and her band of hooligans got hold of it because it was sent out in the mail in a fundraiser. Regular U.S. Mail. It was not registered, required no signature, and no oath of secrecy. Futher, it contained the same information they had made known publicly in a variety of forums.
How is that an argument against the Wedge Document having been a private internal document that was leaked? Are you implying that this letter to Barbara Forrest, which is news of no apparent import to me, was the initial viewing of this letter by a Discovery Institute outsider?
Buck Crick wrote:
That is not a "leaked document". Anyone making the claim is lying.
So you say. Where is your support for these claims?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#36562
Aug 20, 2012
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
The Folks Behind the Leak of the “Wedge”
Seattle Weekly has a scathing article on home-town outfit, the Discovery Institute. But the most startling part is that the leakers of the DI “Wedge” document are identified as Matt Duss and Tim Rhodes.
The story begins, so far as the world at large is concerned, on a late January day seven years ago, in a mail room in a downtown Seattle office of an international human-resources firm. The mail room was also the copy center, and a part-time employee named Matt Duss was handed a document to copy. It was not at all the kind of desperately dull personnel-processing document Duss was used to feeding through the machine. For one thing, it bore the rubber-stamped warnings “TOP SECRET” and “NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION.” Its cover bore an ominous pyramidal diagram superimposed on a fuzzy reproduction of Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel rendition of God the Father zapping life into Adam, all under a mysterious title: The Wedge.
Curious, Duss rifled through the 10 or so pages, eyebrows rising ever higher, then proceeded to execute his commission while reserving a copy of the treatise for himself. Within a week, he had shared his find with a friend who shared his interest in questions of evolution, ideology, and the propagation of ideas. Unlike Duss, the friend, Tim Rhodes, was technically savvy, and it took him little time to scan the document and post it to the World Wide Web, where it first appeared on Feb. 5, 1999.
http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/02/01...
Thanks for that.
jenna patton

Grays, UK

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#36563
Aug 20, 2012
 
100% FUD CRYPTER http://adf.ly/C4SF2

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#36564
Aug 20, 2012
 
RHill wrote:
<quoted text>
The flagellum is certainly a fascinating adaptation. So your "Intelligent Designer" hunkered down with his Scanning Electron Microscope and decided he'd help bacteria move so they could deliver their toxins more efficiently? What a guy! That's the best you got?
And did he have to build them all individually?

Or did he teach some other little microbe to do it for him.

Face it. Thee's a crapload of flagella out there.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#36565
Aug 20, 2012
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
1. ID proponents oppose having ID or creationism taught in school.
2. ID is not creationism. The major creationist organizations in the world reject ID.
Being in command of just a couple of simple facts about ID would improve your education, as you presently do not know one thing about it.
Pfui.

"Intelligent design" presupposes an "intelligent designer"

In what way does that differ from a "creator"?

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

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#36567
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I thought when I read your post.
Obama could hold a shit-eating contest in Chicago, and you would not only attend, you would swear it tasted good.
Voting for the muslim sonuvabitch should be grounds for forced institutionalization.
FAntastic post. I'm so tired of this Obamanation of our country.

Not only is he our first black president ever, he's our worst president ever.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#36568
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
FAntastic post. I'm so tired of this Obamanation of our country.
Not only is he our first black president ever, he's our worst president ever.
You can be the first transparent president.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

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#36569
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You can be the first transparent president.
Imagine the Inaugural speech...

<President Just Results> "As President, I want to say this first and foremost to the American people. You're all going to hell. That is all."

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#36570
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Nontheist wrote:
Imagine the Inaugural speech...
<President Just Results> "As President, I want to say this first and foremost to the American people. You're all going to hell. That is all."
...notable as the first Presidential candidate with a historical figure as a running mate...

"I don't need no VP! Jesus is my copilot!"

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