Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CNN

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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#13855
Aug 21, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
Sorry, but people today still find leftovers of those battles. I was raised near the Battle of Shiloh in TN. For a time had a member who was a Park Ranger there. It was almost daily that he found bullets, buttons, belt buckets from that battle. I know because he use to show them to me. Evidences of burial mounds from the Native Americans are found all the time today, and they didn't build buildings. So it wouldn't be to hard to find something left over from the BoM era since people have gone looking for it, and people have found evidences of civilizations even older then the time of the BoM. But, there is nothing, nada, that anyone can point to as coming from the civilizations of the BoM.
You didn't get my point. You can't look for something that you have no idea of that may have once existed or still does exist. You may come across something by accident that you weren't looking and discover it that way I agree.
But where the battles in the BOM took place, where the cities/villages were located is an unknown factor. So you can't find what you can't prove existed/took place. And the supposed BOM events took place some 1600 years ago. Do you know how much/how severe topographical areas can change in 1600 years? Do you know that most all of the Mayan/Aztec cities/villages/roads/fields were free of jungle and thick fauna? They cleared those areas. They made them jungle free. Those areas were jungle free when the Spanish arrived in the 1500s. When they left, it only took 200 years for those areas to be totally shrowded in jungle again.
Ever see what an Arizona city looks like after one of those dust storms come through? Now imagine that city suffering four to eight of those storms a year and no one cleans away the dust.
Point being, if one of those BOM battles were actually found, it would be several feet below ground level after 1600 years of natural earth and climate adding to the top soil.

“Duty is a Privilege! ”

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#13856
Aug 21, 2012
 
The Bible testifies of of The Book of Mormon,

John 10:15-16

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Isaiah 29:11-14

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13857
Aug 21, 2012
 

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piratefighting wrote:
<quoted text>
NOPE your wrong again.
You haven't done your research I see.
It is said that the Plates were hiden in Meso America for a while and then transported to New York.
You really should update yourself with "Mormonism" and the current information if you are going to debate the authenticity of the Book of Mormon and the History of the Nephites.
Please share where it says that.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13858
Aug 21, 2012
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Lack of evidence is evidence? lol...maybe to you but not to a scientist. Not to a judge or a lawyer.
A lack of evidence means none exists. You can't prove a case/theory on the basis of lack of evidence. That only works when there is an accusation made of something against someone or something. Then when another challenges the accusation for evidence, and evidence is not shown, then and only then in that scenario has a case been won(not proved)on lack of evidence, get it?
Lack of evidence is evidence when someone is making claims about something that talks about massive battles, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people. You make such claims, and the burden of proof is on you. My proof it is false is there is NO evidence. The Mormon church claims the BoM is in part, real history. Everyone else does accuse it of being a work of fiction. The proof? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT! Even after a 170+ years of looking for it.

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#13859
Aug 21, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
Skeletons may be hard to find, though that has been done. But the weapons used in those wars would not. Armour, arrowheads, swords, would still be found. Nothing like it has been found at the Hill Cumorah.
Arrow heads yes. Their stone. Anything made of metal, no. Ever seen the corrosion of a car that's sat for just a decade or even several decades? Ever see a picture of a metal fork or knife that's been found buried in the soil for just a century? At first glance it usually resembles a piece of rotting wood in colour. Ever see a piece of metal like a sword, knife, tool that's been buried in soil for three centuries or more? It appears as a piece of soil. It's original shape is usually 50% or more gone. Only the thickest part will remain to minor degrees.
The only metal that survives to any visual degree of recognition is that which has been wrapped in something and buried in a container or in the clothing of a person buried. But metal left sitting on the topsoil that is covered by dirt and dust for decades to centuries, they rust and erode like acid has been poured onto them.

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#13860
Aug 21, 2012
 
Christ set up his Church "The Church of Jesus Christ" during his ministry. Money, power, and evil changed it.

That cannot be denied... it is documented... it's factual history.

Christ turned around and re-established his Church... "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"

... do you get it? The LDS Church is Christs Church

... you are trying to bring down Christs Church with your insults and vulgar attempts of running 1 person away here and there

... the LDS Church is the TRUE Church of Christ...

http://mormon.org/jesus-christ...

But what do we mean when we say He is the Savior of the world? The Redeemer? Each of these titles point to the truth that Jesus Christ is the only way by which we can return to live with our Heavenly Father. Jesus suffered and was crucified for the sins of the world, giving each of God’s children the gift of repentance and forgiveness. Only by His mercy and grace can anyone be saved. His subsequent resurrection prepared the way for every person to overcome physical death as well. These events are called the Atonement. In short, Jesus Christ saves us from sin and death. For that, he is very literally our Savior and Redeemer. In the future Jesus Christ will return to reign on earth in peace for a thousand years. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and He will be our Lord forever.

---

You see Dana...

God will always win in the end.

Be truthful, research and report truthfully, prosper... and win.

Degrade yourself and others and be seen as an evil filthy rat... and loose.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13861
Aug 21, 2012
 

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piratefighting wrote:
You can't win by insulting people... until they just bore of you.
You can't win by taking other posts from other people, changing the information in them and expect to be respected.
That's not winning.
Then why do you keep doing it?
Hey... another thing to keep in mind is that running someone off because of your foul vulgar insults is not taking down the Church...
Actually it's just the opposite... that person turns to the Church and stops wasting their time on you and starts focusing on the Lord...
Get it?
When you start acting civil, you will get treated civil. Clean your own house before you tell me how to clean mine.
You sit in here day after day running people down with false information, insults, it's degrading to yourself dude.
I'll survive. It isn't false information that keeps you coming back. It's your fear of the truth.
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#13862
Aug 21, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
"11. The T. C. Strong bookstore was operating in 1818 and ran a two-column ad listing its books (Palmyra Register, 15 Sept. 1818). Leonard Westcott opened a store in 1821 and offered to take rags in payment for books (Western Farmer, 11 Apr. 1821). E. F. Marshall opened a new store in December 1822 (Palmyra Herald, 4 Dec. 1822). Ads for bookstores in Canandaigua and Rochester also appeared. J. D. Evernghim operated a bookstore from 1 October 1823 to May 1824 (Wayne Sentinel, 1 Oct. 1823 and May 1824). All publishers of the Palmyra paper, including Timothy C. Strong, Pomeroy Tucker, John H. Gilbert, Egbert G. Grandin, also operated a bookstore along with the printing business and ran a circulating library."
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/...
<quoted text>
B.H. Roberts wouldn't have don't a comparison between the two if Smith had not read it. As the LDS church's first historian, you can't claim him to be an "anti".
And YOU'RE IN HERE MAKING CLAIMS you JUST CAN'T B.E.G.I.N. to COVER.

Smith's WHOLE FAMILY kept EXTENSIVE DIARIES.
N.O.T. one W.O.R.D.
From ANY of them he EVER had possession of books you claim.

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#13863
Aug 21, 2012
 

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Comes the Christmas after about 4 months, could you store the bubble toy, bubble gun, bubble wand, bubble stick, bubble sword, flashing toy?

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#13864
Aug 21, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
"11. The T. C. Strong bookstore was operating in 1818 and ran a two-column ad listing its books (Palmyra Register, 15 Sept. 1818). Leonard Westcott opened a store in 1821 and offered to take rags in payment for books (Western Farmer, 11 Apr. 1821). E. F. Marshall opened a new store in December 1822 (Palmyra Herald, 4 Dec. 1822). Ads for bookstores in Canandaigua and Rochester also appeared. J. D. Evernghim operated a bookstore from 1 October 1823 to May 1824 (Wayne Sentinel, 1 Oct. 1823 and May 1824). All publishers of the Palmyra paper, including Timothy C. Strong, Pomeroy Tucker, John H. Gilbert, Egbert G. Grandin, also operated a bookstore along with the printing business and ran a circulating library."
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/...
<quoted text>
B.H. Roberts wouldn't have don't a comparison between the two if Smith had not read it. As the LDS church's first historian, you can't claim him to be an "anti".
Excellent, you showed evidence I didn't find. Now show evidence that Smith went to those stores and bought/borrowed/traded for their books and you'll have some real evidence for your theory :)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13865
Aug 21, 2012
 

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piratefighting wrote:
The Bible testifies of of The Book of Mormon, Isaiah 29:11-14 (Verses remove to make room for the answer.
The Preferred View of Isa. 29:11-14.

Reference is not to a book (Book of Mormon) but to a God-given vision, a prophecy, given via Isaiah. Such a vision is not one that Israel, so dulled by its sins, can grasp properly; rather it is like a book that is sealed to such spiritually blind people. Such blindness also would be true of many in Matthew 13, those who could not grasp the “mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,” and the principle is true of “the natural man” who “does not understand the things of God,” for they are spiritually discerned (I Cor. 2:14-15).

The people of Isaiah’s day who rejected God’s message were the dull ones in Isaiah 29:10,“For the Lord has poured out on you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, namely the prophets, and He has covered your heads, the seers.”

Such lack of perception is because “the people draw near God with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Him,” etc. They draw God’s judgment on themselves (“Woe to those ...,” v. 15) as they seek to hide counsel far from the Lord, and do works in the dark, and say “Who sees us?” God, however, will bring back blessing in a time when “the deaf will hear the word of the book [God’srevelation, not the Book of Mormon] and the eyes of the blind shall see,” and “the humble also shall increase joy.”

Contrast the above with the Mormon misuse by LeGrand Richards and other Mormon writers listed in the first paragraph of this paper. The actual idea is this. Israelites smitten to the ground by invaders will speak out of the dust, in a voice like that of a familiar spirit (medium). They will be so humbled by devastation, so faint. In this way they will, in a sense, be similar to familiar spirits (mediums) who had to carry on their banned business in lower tones, and not in loud voices with boisterous confidence.

Richards has it mean dead people speak by the Book of Mormon. He says,

“Truly it has a familiar spirit, for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel,” so well known (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p. 69). How does this distort the true interpretation?

1. Such usage of “familiar spirit” backfires on Mormon interpreters. The term in every OT reference (of around 15) relates to erroneous witchcraft and the occult.

Passages warn God’s people not to give credence to those who have “familiar spirits” or seek wizards to be polluted by them (Lev. 19:31; 20:6 warns that a person who imbibes ideas of those with familiar spirits and wizards or goes whoring after them will be cut off among the people; 20:27 says that a man or woman with a familiar spirit is to be put to death). One can add that Deuteronomy 18:11 informs that “one who consults with familiar spirits” is an abomination to the Lord. Other texts agree: 2 Kings 21:6 connects Manasseh’s evil with his traffic with familiar spirits; I Chron. 10:13 shows comments on King Saul who died for sin against the Lord, as in seeking counsel of a witch with a familiar spirit (a medium).
2. That those who speak out of the dust are dead, as Richards interprets, is not said. Instead the thought is that Israelites who reject will writhe in the dust in subjection to enemies who utterly capture them. Under such power, their voice will be faint, flimsy, like a secretive familiar spirit’s, in contrast to ability to speak in the full flush of bold confidence

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#13867
Aug 21, 2012
 
You know you sit in here day after day trying to bait people...

when you hook someone...

you pick and choose what you will attack...

It's not about getting... it's abouyt giving...
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not going to embrace fantasies just to please a phony religion that only wants to run every detail of my life without giving me anything in return. Sorry, that's not going to happen.
No response to the rest. It was just all BS.

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#13868
Aug 21, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Lack of evidence is evidence when someone is making claims about something that talks about massive battles, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people. You make such claims, and the burden of proof is on you. My proof it is false is there is NO evidence. The Mormon church claims the BoM is in part, real history. Everyone else does accuse it of being a work of fiction. The proof? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT! Even after a 170+ years of looking for it.
You need to get this straight. There is no actual proof to prove the BOM correct and true to any real varying degree of more or less. But because evidence doesn't exist for it, that doesn't mean the BOM stories never happened. It just means at present, today, we have no supporting evidence to prove they took place. There is a difference there you continue in ignorance refuse to see and admit is true.

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#13869
Aug 21, 2012
 
Your insistence that lack of evidence is no evidence is exactly what the atheist said until the Bible with its relevant archeology became the GOLD standard for middle eastern ancient history.

If you research you will find that relevant archeology has become available and it is undeniable because... THERE ARE ARTIFACTS... and the places identified in the Book of Mormon are identified...

Oh and guess what...

giving someone a hard time does not make you a winner.

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#13870
Aug 21, 2012
 
interesting enough... this site has a picture of one of the artifacts of which I speak of...(the stone now sits at the Smithsonian)

http://www.moroni10.com/lehi_stone.html

http://www.aztec-history.com/olmec-civilizati...

Fox news even shows one of the ancient sites of of the Indians from Guatamala

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/slideshow/2012...

There is so much I can't sit here and feed it to you... you have to be willing to read and research.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13871
Aug 21, 2012
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent, you showed evidence I didn't find. Now show evidence that Smith went to those stores and bought/borrowed/traded for their books and you'll have some real evidence for your theory :)
Joseph Smith, Sr., was a school teacher during the off season. Joseph's brother, Hyrum, worked as a school teacher during the off season also. One of his sisters may have also been a teacher at some point in her life. This wasn't a family of illiterates. Education was important to the Smith family, and although Joseph may have only had limited formal education in a typical classroom, his parents undoubtedly schooled him at home. Also Joseph was going to high school when he was 20 years old in Harmony PA with the Stowell children.

Joseph was able to read and ponder scriptures. His parents were literate. He had access to books and newspapers. He even held a position as "exhorter" at a local church. Joseph's mother wrote that they did not neglect the education of their children.

If you are trying to defend the BoM on such a minor issue, it is a sad defense. B.H. Roberts wrote:

Josiah Priest's Wonders of Nature and Providence(which contains large portions of TVoH) was published in New York state, only about twenty miles from where the Smith family resided from about 1815 to 1830, and Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews was published in Poultney, Vermont, only a few miles from Windsor, Vermont where Joseph Smith's family lived until he was ten years of age. Roberts considered it "probable" that Ethan Smith's book was "either possessed by Joseph Smith or certainly known by him, for [it] was surely available to him" — Studies of the Book of Mormon, p. 153.

Swallowing gnats again?

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#13872
Aug 21, 2012
 
https://www.google.com/search...

Click the link above. Words can't describe it.

It's there. It's real. Just because you don't know about it, deny, or reject it... doesn't mean it didn't happen.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13873
Aug 21, 2012
 

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piratefighting wrote:
You know you sit in here day after day trying to bait people...
when you hook someone...
you pick and choose what you will attack...
It's not about getting... it's abouyt giving...
<quoted text>
I have always gladly discussed anything about the teachings of Mormonism. But most of the time, when people are just going to call me a homosexual child molester, I'm not going waste my time with you. When you act civil, I'll treat you civil.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#13874
Aug 21, 2012
 

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piratefighting wrote:
https://www.google.com/search? q=ancient+maya+ruins+of+palenq ue+chiapas+mexico&hl=en &rls=com.microsoft:en-us:I E-Address&prmd=imvns&t bm=isch&tbo=u&source=u niv&sa=X&ei=KEczUNOHN- eBiwLA0IGIDw&ved=0CFoQsAQ &biw=718&bih=565#q=anc ient+maya+ruins+of+palenque+ch iapas+mexico&hl=en&sa= X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us: IE-Address&tbm=isch&pr md=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc. r_pw.r_qf.&fp=313e29bfd073 7741&biw=1084&bih=565
Click the link above. Words can't describe it.
It's there. It's real. Just because you don't know about it, deny, or reject it... doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Known about for this years. Ever since I saw the Jack West slides in church. What makes you think those buildings have anything whatsoever to do with the BoM?

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#13875
Aug 21, 2012
 
It's been check and verified for accuracy...

City / Land of Nephi ... Guatamala / Kaminaljuyu
10 days (80 miles)

to

Waters of Mormon ... Lake of Atitlan
8 days (65 miles)

to

Land of Helam ... Almolonga
1 day (8 miles)

to

Valley of Alma ... Quetzaltenango
12 days (96 miles)

to

City Land of Zarahemla ... Chiapas Depression

---

now.... run and go verify... you can't disprove it... the trail has been marked... many travel and tour it every day.

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