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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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Tony C wrote: <quoted text>
Kucinich is definitely the best on our issue.
I actually can't vote in the primary because in Florida you have to be a registered Democrat to do so. I'm registered Independent and not willing to give that up.
I think your assessment of Hillary was spot on.
Obama impressed me the most and seemed the most genuine. I think he is not personally against gay marriage, just being politically astute.
Edwards and Hillary - not sure they would ever support gay marriage. But I get the sense if Obama were elected to a second term, and it came across his desk after the inequity of civil unions had been proven, he would support us.
Richardson - I will give him this - for someone who obviously "doesn't get it" - it is all that much more impressive what he has done and/or attempted to do on our behalf. That's a man who believes in equality even for people he totally misunderstands. Your post brings up an issue that is very important to me and many others, but often gets ignored. That being the issue of registered independants voting in party primaries. Very few states allow this and I hope that more people will work to change the laws in their states. It is difficult because neither the Dems nor Repubs want to risk losing political power. As it now stands, the United States is controlled by two sides of the same coin. I'd like to see the voting laws become uniform thruout the country. And since all taxpayers foot the bill for party primaries, shouldn't all taxpayers be allowed to vote in all primaries, regardless of political affiliation? I can hear the screams now! Well my other idea will cause even more howling and nashing of teeth. If the two parties want to keep the "members only" system, then I say let the political parties foot the bill and pay for all costs the government incurs when it holds a primary election.
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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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Nana to Four wrote: *ignoring the Ann Coulter Wannabes Debs*
Well! Now - who actually watched the debate? I did, and I was pleasantly - and unpleasantly surprised by several responses by the Democratic hopefuls.
Anyone else see it? Or is this thread just another cover for gay bashing? Thanks for trying to get this thread back on topic watched most of it (recorded it on DVR). Very impressed with Gravel. Would like to see him on the ticket. Edwards seemed ill at ease, but I felt he did his best to give honest answers. Very impressed with Obama, underwhelmed by Hilary. And poor Richardson. He seemed like a little kid standing on the sidelines crying because no one ever picks him for the reindeer games.
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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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Debpatriot wrote: <quoted text>Thanks, George. I just wanted to be fair, & not come to the conclusion that gay people are hateful towards straight people, but Wisdom tells me to move on. Eye-opener for sure:( perhaps if you remained on topic and avoided one on one confrontations with idividual posters you'd be taken more seriously. I welcome your views on what the candidates said on the LOGO debate, but if you are not familiar with or watched the debate, then you should not be on this thread unless you are trying to ask questions. We are very happy to provide answers and opinions. But we do get tired of reading the same anti-gay traditional values schtick that has paraded itself before the nation for 25 years now.
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“equality for ALL means ALL”
Since: Jan 07
Fort Lauderdale FL
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Unbelievable wrote: <quoted text>
Deb, do you have a reply for this? Do you see anything wrong with the facts I presented? Don't hold your breath. She has to ask someone else what to say.
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“Let a smile be your umbrella!”
Since: Aug 07
Saint Augustine, FL
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Well, on the topic of the debate - what'd you all think of the moderator? I didn't know her, assume she's straight, and I liked her questions. To the point in most cases.
And I thought Joe Salmonese did a great job. Melissa was amazing, aiming straight between Hillary's eyes. It was fascinating to hear the spin put on the process by the former First Lady of her husband's policies.
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“Oh, it's what you do to me.”
Since: Apr 07
PoDunk, IN
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How can so many, on this board and everywhere, claim to be a follower of Christ and brothers and sisters to myself in His evergrowing family while spewing hate?
So sad. And I will continue to pray they will find contentment in their own walk with the Lord.
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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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Nana to Four wrote: <quoted text>
It IS totally mind blowing. They won't admit they're bashing when they tell us we're going to hell. They deny the Christianity of many gays, because it doesn't fit their "agenda". They won't admit they're bashing when they ridicule our loving relationships. They won't admit that by calling us names (I've personally seen rug-muncher, fudge packer, and worse on Topix in the last month) they're being at best rude, and at worst hateful.
When they start posting I get this picture in my head of them standing over me with a huge plaster statue of Jesus, banging me on the head.
Then they whimper and cry when we take them on and shout that we're ABUSING them when we won't take their crap lying down. They certainly don't want to educate us - because any teacher knows you can't belittle a student and then expect them to learn. They don't want to engage in rational discourse either, because every time we offer a reasoned response we're told Black is White, Up is Down, and we're idiots for believing differently than they do.
They certainly can't agree to disagree - which is the stance we LGBTQers have had to take with them for centuries now.
They don't know how to live, and let live. Instead they want strident strife - an insistence that they, and they alone, hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Kinda reminds me of little Lucy Van Pelt (Peanuts) yelling, "If I can't be right, I'll be wrong at the top of my voice!"
Insecurity and low self-esteem. That's all I can figure. I am responding because you wrote an excellent post. But I also want to ask you for one correstion, which I am sure you will agree with me on. They not only attack and question the Christianity of GLBT people. They are always calling into question the Christianity of millions of other people; the straight Christians who support our cause. Fortunately, we have people like you who can express our feelings in a way that is well reasoned and assertive without attempting to rob the other person of their dignity. And we have hundreds of thousands of straight people doing this as well. I am beginning to understand why these particular straight people fear us. They are finally understanding that they are and were the true minority. There numbers are shrinking everyday and as a result the more militant and radical voices of their cause are being questioned about their beliefs or even just dismissed as bigots. They are simply frieghtened because they expect the worst of us. And the fear that we will show the same to them. They fail to see that we are not the haters, they are. And everything has its' consequences.
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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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Debpatriot wrote: I am not a hypocrite. Let your written words speak to all, for your true colors are all in your written word. My God is not the author of confusion. Just had to let you know. very nice sentence. Sounds like a ver batim quote heard in a tent revival meeting. Did you take notes? (Sorry my friends but sometimes she just ticks me off and I get nasty right back)
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“equality for ALL means ALL”
Since: Jan 07
Fort Lauderdale FL
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Nana to Four wrote: Well, on the topic of the debate - what'd you all think of the moderator? I didn't know her, assume she's straight, and I liked her questions. To the point in most cases.
And I thought Joe Salmonese did a great job. Melissa was amazing, aiming straight between Hillary's eyes. It was fascinating to hear the spin put on the process by the former First Lady of her husband's policies. I've seen the moderator before but that's because I watch "boring" political stuff like the McLaughlin Group et al. I thought she was very good. She jumped in and tried not to let things slide. Melissa was also very good. Salmonese annoyed me. First, why try to omit Gravel? Second, he was so star-struck by Hillary - he fed her little cocky attitude.
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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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Please wait...
Nana to Four wrote: Well, on the topic of the debate - what'd you all think of the moderator? I didn't know her, assume she's straight, and I liked her questions. To the point in most cases.
And I thought Joe Salmonese did a great job. Melissa was amazing, aiming straight between Hillary's eyes. It was fascinating to hear the spin put on the process by the former First Lady of her husband's policies. Agreed!. Moderator was incredible! well focused, polite and always professional in a very relaxed way. And KUDOS to Mr. Salomonese and Ms. Etheridge.
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“Thank you Target!”
Since: Apr 07
Born in Newark, Ohio
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AllCreated Equal wrote: How can so many, on this board and everywhere, claim to be a follower of Christ and brothers and sisters to myself in His evergrowing family while spewing hate?
So sad. And I will continue to pray they will find contentment in their own walk with the Lord. Amen
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“Let a smile be your umbrella!”
Since: Aug 07
Saint Augustine, FL
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DNF wrote: <quoted text>I am responding because you wrote an excellent post. But I also want to ask you for one correstion, which I am sure you will agree with me on.
They not only attack and question the Christianity of GLBT people. They are always calling into question the Christianity of millions of other people; the straight Christians who support our cause.
*****
They are simply frieghtened because they expect the worst of us. And the fear that we will show the same to them.
They fail to see that we are not the haters, they are.
And everything has its' consequences. Thanks for the kind words - and yes - I do stand corrected. Too many so-called Christians do attack the beliefs of any and everyone who disagrees with their church's stance on things. I agree too, that they are frightened of us. They must be, to come at us with such vehemence. It's too sad, and as a direct result they now have some reason to be afraid of us. A lot more of us are going armed these days, in defense of our lives, and those of our loved ones. In February, 2004, my Beloved and I trekked all the way out to California to take part in the historic marriages being performed in San Francisco. We had to wait in line overnight during a SF winter storm, but we did it so we could see our union finally recognized, knowing that we'd be stripped of it soon enough. While we were in line during those two days, the Phelpsians and other protesters lined the sidewalk opposite us. They drove their hate covered truck around and around the block. Shouted their angry slogans amid the cheering for couples emerging from City Hall with their marriage certificates proudly in hand. Hooted and cat-called the happy couples. I've never seen a clearer example of how they were the haters, and we were the lovers. I think I'll always think of our two groups that way.
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JMichael
Arlington, TX
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Nana to Four wrote: Well, on the topic of the debate - what'd you all think of the moderator? I didn't know her, assume she's straight, and I liked her questions. To the point in most cases.
And I thought Joe Salmonese did a great job. Melissa was amazing, aiming straight between Hillary's eyes. It was fascinating to hear the spin put on the process by the former First Lady of her husband's policies. I actually thought the moderator and all three panelists were great, and like you, I was blown away by Melissa's question to Hillary; she perfectly articulated something that I was feeling but couldn't quite put into words. People who actually attended the forum in person said that Hillary had a huge rapport with the audience, but whatever magic she created in person didn't carry over into my living room. I thought Kucinich and Obama came off best. However, the trick for me is to integrate what they said during the forum about LGBT issues into their stated positions on *other* major issues, and then determine who deserves my vote overall. I try not to be a one-issue voter (although I feel confident that all the candidates who did NOT show up at the forum will NOT get my support).
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“Married as I can be!”
Since: Jun 07
Las Vegas
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I thought Melissa's interaction with Governor Richardson were the funniest and most telling. She let him know in no uncertain terms that she was done with him we she started asking him about the beetle problem in New Mexico. Classy way to dismiss somebody!
I agree with JMichael that Hillary was less than exciting, and I'm surprised that so many people on the broadcast were gushing about her so much.
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“Let a smile be your umbrella!”
Since: Aug 07
Saint Augustine, FL
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I agree! Whatever charisma it is she's reputed to have - it didn't translate into my living room either!
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“equality for ALL means ALL”
Since: Jan 07
Fort Lauderdale FL
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Nana to Four wrote: <quoted text>Thanks for the kind words - and yes - I do stand corrected. Too many so-called Christians do attack the beliefs of any and everyone who disagrees with their church's stance on things.
I agree too, that they are frightened of us. They must be, to come at us with such vehemence. It's too sad, and as a direct result they now have some reason to be afraid of us. A lot more of us are going armed these days, in defense of our lives, and those of our loved ones.
In February, 2004, my Beloved and I trekked all the way out to California to take part in the historic marriages being performed in San Francisco. We had to wait in line overnight during a SF winter storm, but we did it so we could see our union finally recognized, knowing that we'd be stripped of it soon enough.
While we were in line during those two days, the Phelpsians and other protesters lined the sidewalk opposite us. They drove their hate covered truck around and around the block. Shouted their angry slogans amid the cheering for couples emerging from City Hall with their marriage certificates proudly in hand. Hooted and cat-called the happy couples.
I've never seen a clearer example of how they were the haters, and we were the lovers. I think I'll always think of our two groups that way. Wow, that must have been a wild experience. I was single then, or I would have been right there!! I've encountered the Phelpsians a few times myself - in NYC, in D.C. It always shocks them when I talk Christianese to them. They are thrown off. They're just expecting everyone to yell back and curse at them (ok I do that too.) But I challenge them on Biblical issues and they are ill-prepared to answer. It made the cops nervous in NYC. They kept saying to move along with the parade. I said we were just talking. I guess that's not encouraged. So then I just shouted curses back at them and kept walking with the parade.
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JMichael
Arlington, TX
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Tony C wrote: <quoted text>
Wow, that must have been a wild experience. I was single then, or I would have been right there!!
I've encountered the Phelpsians a few times myself - in NYC, in D.C. It always shocks them when I talk Christianese to them. They are thrown off. They're just expecting everyone to yell back and curse at them (ok I do that too.) But I challenge them on Biblical issues and they are ill-prepared to answer.
It made the cops nervous in NYC. They kept saying to move along with the parade. I said we were just talking. I guess that's not encouraged.
So then I just shouted curses back at them and kept walking with the parade. I sang with them one time in DC. Well, it was one of my favorite hymns, and I figured I'd be darned if I was going to let them claim it for themselves!
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“Let a smile be your umbrella!”
Since: Aug 07
Saint Augustine, FL
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TonyC and JMichael - I find it downright admirable that you two can interact with the Phelpsians reasonably. I admire you for that - truly.
They make my teeth squeak. I can't stand the sight or sound of them. I had my camera with me and should have photographed their hate-mobile but I just couldn't bring myself to record them for however brief a history. Perhaps they offend me most by being from Kansas, the state of my birth. They're not the Kansas I know in my youth - that's for sure!
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Lola from NC
Greensboro, NC
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Tony C wrote: <quoted text>
Wow, that must have been a wild experience. I was single then, or I would have been right there!!
I've encountered the Phelpsians a few times myself - in NYC, in D.C. It always shocks them when I talk Christianese to them. They are thrown off. They're just expecting everyone to yell back and curse at them (ok I do that too.) But I challenge them on Biblical issues and they are ill-prepared to answer.
It made the cops nervous in NYC. They kept saying to move along with the parade. I said we were just talking. I guess that's not encouraged.
So then I just shouted curses back at them and kept walking with the parade. Hey, sometimes you just gotta do what ya gotta do. lol The Phelps' deserve every single curse aimed their way. And more.
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JMichael
Arlington, TX
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Nana to Four wrote: TonyC and JMichael - I find it downright admirable that you two can interact with the Phelpsians reasonably. I admire you for that - truly. Thank you, Nana. Of course, I didn't *want* to be reasonable towards them. I wanted to raise a riot! But in the particular situation I was in, I think a peaceful reaction was the best and most effective choice. However ... if I ever ran into them picketing the funeral of a gay person or a fallen soldier, and adding to the misery of a bereaved family by spewing hatred, I'm very afraid that I would not be able to respond with quite the same degree of level headedness.
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Aquarius
