President Obama says he supports gay marriage

The guy's a DOPE. Homosexual 'marriage' is a cruel lie with no real basis in how homosexual live!

No significant percent of the homosexual population has 'married' in ANY country that allows it, and studies have shown that few such 'marriages' are even exclusive relationships.

The homosexual 'marriage' movement is a hate based political charade attacking what others hold sacred.

No homosexual relationship shares the reasons for government involvement in real marriage. No economically or physically unequal genders are involve. No child is ever born as a direct result, and no such relationship can provide a child with a father and mother. Having both is one of the most accurate statistical predictions of a child's future success in life.

Homosexual themselves overwhelmingly reject 'marriage' as an actual practice in EVERY country that allows the concocted oxymoron.

It's always amusing for me to read goatboy of 10,000 screen names spam.

He consistently ignores how many heterosexuals "reject" marriage in a "significant proportion" by getting divorced.

He ignores how those who divorce attack what people hold sacred in marriage.

And when he claims that Same Sex Marriage will somehow deprive a child of a mother and father I have to wonder if he even knows the basics about the birds and the bees!

DNF wrote:

It's always amusing for me to read goatboy of 10,000 screen names spam.
He consistently ignores how many heterosexuals "reject" marriage in a "significant proportion" by getting divorced.
He ignores how those who divorce attack what people hold sacred in marriage.
And when he claims that Same Sex Marriage will somehow deprive a child of a mother and father I have to wonder if he even knows the basics about the birds and the bees!

In the home raising the children together...you seem to constantly and conveniently leave that out!

Braidwood wrote:

The guy's a DOPE. Homosexual 'marriage' is a cruel lie with no real basis in how homosexual live!
No significant percent of the homosexual population has 'married' in ANY country that allows it, and studies have shown that few such 'marriages' are even exclusive relationships.
The homosexual 'marriage' movement is a hate based political charade attacking what others hold sacred.
No homosexual relationship shares the reasons for government involvement in real marriage. No economically or physically unequal genders are involve. No child is ever born as a direct result, and no such relationship can provide a child with a father and mother. Having both is one of the most accurate statistical predictions of a child's future success in life.
Homosexual themselves overwhelmingly reject 'marriage' as an actual practice in EVERY country that allows the concocted oxymoron.

Gays in America have equal rights in jobs, housing, and voting, unlike gays in almost any other country on this planet. These are the only important issues, not "gay marriage," which sounds like just an excuse to have a party to me.

DNF wrote:

It's always amusing for me to read goatboy of 10,000 screen names spam.
He consistently ignores how many heterosexuals "reject" marriage in a "significant proportion" by getting divorced.
He ignores how those who divorce attack what people hold sacred in marriage.
And when he claims that Same Sex Marriage will somehow deprive a child of a mother and father I have to wonder if he even knows the basics about the birds and the bees!

Atheist and secularist type thinking has done a lot of damage by weakening people's character and will, but less scrotum in your face than the homosexuals invading Catholic seminaries to place and maintain their abuse of young people for decades to discredit the Church. Drugs, pornography, destroyed families, indoctrination of pre-schoolers, increased perversions, murders of millions... the legacy of atheists, secularists and homosexuals.

Get That Fool wrote:

<quoted text>
In the home raising the children together...you seem to constantly and conveniently leave that out!

No I didn't. I addressed that directly when I pointed out divorce.

Stop misquoting me please.

Philliproy wrote:

<quoted text>
Gays in America have equal rights in jobs, housing, and voting, unlike gays in almost any other country on this planet. These are the only important issues, not "gay marriage," which sounds like just an excuse to have a party to me.

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." 9th amendment.

Case law, through the Supreme Court, has established marriage as one of those previously unlisted fundamental civil rights, on 14 separate occasions.

The 14th amendment says no state shall "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
The Equal Protection Clause “‘neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens.’(SCOTUS)

The U.S. Supreme Court said: "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections."

"While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (p.117 In re Marriage)

Laws that deny equality, stigmatize those being denied. This stigma affects how they are treated in a wide variety of situations, and can affect how they view themselves when the government tells them they are not worthy of equal treatment. Such prejudice causes needless suffering and even death. It has no legitimate place in the law.

Gays do NOT yet have equal rights in jobs or housing in this country. You don't know what you're talking about cracker.

Philliproy wrote:

<quoted text>
Gays in America have equal rights in jobs, housing, and voting, unlike gays in almost any other country on this planet. These are the only important issues, not "gay marriage," which sounds like just an excuse to have a party to me.

How the sperm and egg came together has noting to do with the fact many gay couples are raising children who can be expected to do just as well as any other children.

Science has demonstrated the relationship between the parent and child is the most important variable in determining the success of the child. Gender is irrelevant. Two is better than one. But having opposite sex parents is no better than same sex parents. Adopted children also do as well as biological children.

The exception is when step parents enter who were not invested in the child. Again, the relationship between the parent and child is the determining factor.

Children should be treated equally under the law no matter how they were conceived. Method of procreation provides no legitimate governmental interest sufficient for harming them through denial of equal rights.


"The Turkey Baster Method is the most common way of artificial insemination to get pregnant and have an artificial insemination at home.
The advantage to this method is that you don't need any fitted equipment!
The success rate is the same as with intercourse, perhaps a bit less because there are usually fewer opportunities for insemination and timing may not cover the bases as well." http://www.babymed.com/home-artificial-insemi...

The question of gay marriage is a red herring and totally irrelevant to real civil rights in this country. Marriage is an outdated and increasingly unpopular institution (some would say legal trap), anyway.

Why beat the dead horse of an outmoded institution that is increasingly shunned by a majority of Americans?

Almost all levels of government and society throughout the world severely punish married couples by increasing taxes on married couples above unmarried couples and by invoking other severe penalties against those who irrationally choose marriage. Why choose this sort of self-inflicted punishment?

TomInElPaso wrote:

Gays do NOT yet have equal rights in jobs or housing in this country. You don't know what you're talking about cracker.
<quoted text>

Thanks for that reminder. Marriage has been on my mind today, and I skipped over the false information about already having equal rights in housing, public accommodations, employment, credit, and many of the other rights still not covered equally by the feds and many states. And Romney wants to return us to denial of equality in the military, as well as changing the constitution to deny marriage equality.

Just 9 percent of women aged 30 to 34 were unmarried in 1965, a percentage that more than tripled by 2000, to 32 percent.

In 1960, there were there were approximately 450,000 couples cohabiting in the United States; by 2011, the number had increased to 7.5million

Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/cohabitation-3#i...

So, it is really becoming "normal" to not be in a relationship, either to a same sex or opposite sex partner. In other words, being single is normal, while being married is becoming abnormal.

Why buck the growing trend?

There are over 1,138 federal rights that accompany marriage covers over a thousand motivations for some people. Others want and value the public commitment. For many gay as well as straight couples, the religious commitment and support of their church congregation is important. Everyone has their own set of motivations for getting married. Yet there are serious considerations that motivate people to not enter lightly. If you aren't serious, your partner may get angry and take half your stuff.

But as long a marriage remains a fundamental right, denial of that right stigmatizes and dehumanizes, resulting in a wide variety and severity of needless harm.

"In the court’s final analysis, the government’s only basis for supporting DOMA comes down to an apparent belief that the moral views of the majority may properly be enacted as the law of the land in regard to state-sanctioned same-sex marriage in disregard of the personal status and living conditions of a significant segment of our pluralistic society. Such a view is not consistent with the evidence or the law as embodied in the Fifth Amendment with respect to the thoughts expressed in this decision. The court has no doubt about its conclusion: DOMA deprives them of the equal protection of the law to which they are entitled."

"Proposition 8 is unconstitutional under both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution." "Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional."

Philliproy wrote:

The question of gay marriage is a red herring and totally irrelevant to real civil rights in this country. Marriage is an outdated and increasingly unpopular institution (some would say legal trap), anyway.
Why beat the dead horse of an outmoded institution that is increasingly shunned by a majority of Americans?
Almost all levels of government and society throughout the world severely punish married couples by increasing taxes on married couples above unmarried couples and by invoking other severe penalties against those who irrationally choose marriage. Why choose this sort of self-inflicted punishment?

You are fairly clueless about taxes and parents with children. Parents can claim a tax deduction for every dependent. They may even qualify for the earned income credit.

Unfortunately the IRS has taken the stand that since DOMA only grants federal recognition to married heterosexual couples, those tax deductions and many others are denied to legally married same sex couples.

Philliproy wrote:

<quoted text>
Gays in America have equal rights in jobs, housing, and voting, unlike gays in almost any other country on this planet. These are the only important issues, not "gay marriage," which sounds like just an excuse to have a party to me.

What you don't know about being gay is A LOT.
Jobs, housing, and voting have NOTHING to do with who you want to spend your life with. Suppose the US government told you that you couldn't marry the person you were in love with. You'd be first in line to protest THAT.
Marriage incorporates many things you heteros take for granted like insurance issues, next of kin issues, tax issues, legal issues not to mention recognition of you and your spouse as a FAMILY.
I know that the president of the US saying he supports gay marriage REALLY pisses you off ... and it pleases me to no end.
Get over it ... as if two guys getting married will have ANY impact on your shallow, miserable life anyway.

This is a short sample of the documentation which demonstrates anti-gay laws, social policies, and social support systems that deny equality perpetuate prejudice and discrimination that causes harm in a wide variety of ways. The resulting dehumanization and demonization is used to justify their behavior by those who bully, beat, torture, and kill, here and around the world. It also results in self destruction, both fast and slow. Prejudice causes needless suffering and death.

Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."

The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."

The Ca. Supreme Court: "While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (p.117)

"It is important to note that being LGBT is not a risk factor in and of itself; however, the minority stressors that LGBT individual encounter - such as discrimination and harassment - are directly associated with suicidal behavior as well as indirectly with risk factors for suicide." (American Association of Suicidology)
http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library...

"Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals." (APA)

Hate crimes against gay people are the highest per person in the U.S. Attacks against gay people are more severe and violent than for other groups according to the FBI.

"The research, published in the January Pediatrics (Vol. 123, No. 1), found that LGB adults who reported high rates of parental rejection in their teens were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide, 5.9 times more likely to report high levels of depression, 3.4 times more likely to use illegal drugs, and 3.4 times more likely to have had unprotected sex than LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection, reports the study team, headed by Caitlin Ryan, PhD, of San Francisco State University.

Again, prejudice and discrimination causes needless suffing and death. It has no place in the law.

Philliproy wrote:

Just 9 percent of women aged 30 to 34 were unmarried in 1965, a percentage that more than tripled by 2000, to 32 percent.
In 1960, there were there were approximately 450,000 couples cohabiting in the United States; by 2011, the number had increased to 7.5million
Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/cohabitation-3#i...
So, it is really becoming "normal" to not be in a relationship, either to a same sex or opposite sex partner. In other words, being single is normal, while being married is becoming abnormal.
Why buck the growing trend?

An interesting post. I have another monkey wrench you might want to use in the marriage question.

Many on both sides talk about how important children are to society, but not many of them favor raising taxes. Higher taxes would mean more money available for teachers, police and firefighters as well as programs that help children in families that live below the poverty line.

If they really care about children why are they opposed to raising taxes and closing loopholes?

The Supreme Court of the United States has not declared DOMA unconsitutional. And, the President of the United States has no legal right to override the Supreme Court and unilaterally declare DOMA unconstitutional.

And, the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts on 1 Jan 2013 will make tax rates higher for married couples than unmarried couples. It's called the "Marriage Penalty."

And, why not simply abolish marriage for all? That would promote equality in a much less convoluted fashion.

Oh, but that would take away so much money from mealy-mouthed Family Law Attorneys! I get it!

Not Yet Equal wrote:

This is a short sample of the documentation which demonstrates anti-gay laws, social policies, and social support systems that deny equality perpetuate prejudice and discrimination that causes harm in a wide variety of ways. The resulting dehumanization and demonization is used to justify their behavior by those who bully, beat, torture, and kill, here and around the world. It also results in self destruction, both fast and slow. Prejudice causes needless suffering and death.
Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."
The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."
The Ca. Supreme Court: "While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (p.117)
"It is important to note that being LGBT is not a risk factor in and of itself; however, the minority stressors that LGBT individual encounter - such as discrimination and harassment - are directly associated with suicidal behavior as well as indirectly with risk factors for suicide." (American Association of Suicidology)
http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library...
"Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals." (APA)
Hate crimes against gay people are the highest per person in the U.S. Attacks against gay people are more severe and violent than for other groups according to the FBI.
"The research, published in the January Pediatrics (Vol. 123, No. 1), found that LGB adults who reported high rates of parental rejection in their teens were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide, 5.9 times more likely to report high levels of depression, 3.4 times more likely to use illegal drugs, and 3.4 times more likely to have had unprotected sex than LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection, reports the study team, headed by Caitlin Ryan, PhD, of San Francisco State University.
Again, prejudice and discrimination causes needless suffing and death. It has no place in the law.

It's Nature's way of telling you something's wrong.

"Overall, results of research suggest that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from that of children with heterosexual parents." (APA)

While we don't fully understand why some people are gay, bisexual, or straight, the sexual orientation of the parent is not a determining factor. Gay people mostly come from straight parents. The fear gay parents will produce gay children is unfounded, irrational, and not supported by the science.

Additionally, having children or even the ability to have children has never been a requirement for marriage in the U.S. People who cannot possibly have children, and those who have no intention of having children get married all the time. But some gay people do in fact reproduce using the same variety of assistance straight people use, or adopt the abused and discarded children of straight people. It is neither wise or helpful to society to deny to those families the same protections granted to straight families who are similarly situated. In fact, it is irrational, unnecessary, harmful, and cruel.

Gay people have always been around no matter how well accepted or how severely punished. The reality is, gay people have formed bonds in the past and will continue to form relationships. The question then becomes, are we going to accept reality and encourage strong, committed relationships around the shared values of family, fidelity, and responsibility, with the help of friends, family, and the government, or is it in the best interest of society to make laws that attack and demean such relationships, causing unjustified harm to those couples and their children.