Protests against a visit to Greece by US Secretary of State...

how that woman dares to visit Greece? Did she ever hear about the CIA imposed military Dictatorship? How she thinks the Greeks, and most Americans for that matter, feel about the Bush's criminal war against Iraq? How she thinks they feel for the tens of thousand Iraqis bombed to extinction? Greeks are not exposed to the incessant Bush propaganda; they are not blinded.
Woman, go back to where you came from and you and your bosh don't ever dare to visit Greece again. You are most unwelcomed.

If the Irak war is your real concern,then why doesnt Greece do something about reconstructing Irak.%There is many people that would appreciate it! Its easy to sit there and comment and have no participation in developing the countries in need.(sounds like crocidile tears to me)! Only with a political hidden agenda!
You are also living in Cleveland OH and you have the nerve to say to an US official 'dont come to greece you are not welcomed' I pitty people like yourself,if thats what you believe and you had some dignity why dont you go and live in Greece? It just makes sense,doesnt it Yorgo?

i can only sympathize so much with Peace (Ankara, Turkey)

I feel much the same way that George dellaportas from cleveland does and i live in america.

I am trying to leave, i pay so much taxes i have no money left.

Mr Bush is only part of the war problem, you have to understand America is now run by elitist Corporations, like Monsanto, and Big pharmecuticals. They are destroying the once free america. Our constitution is being trashed.

HOwever, my intentions are to eventually leave, because I am frightened to live here, not by terrorists, but by my own government. There are many people in America who never wanted war. Many people here never wanted any of this. I am ashamed to live here. America shouldn't have to terrorize another country for oil, but this is a financial interest for Bush. We have technology for other sources of energy and i'm making no reference to nuclear, because nuclear is a no win situation for everyone, noone should use nuclear energy.
It's the American corporations, pharmecuticals, and agribiz that are responsible for these outcomes at least that is what i believe. I don't care what country you are in, you never get the whole truth, media is too easy for any government to manipulate.
I think if we were one world, and respected others for thier beliefs, whatever they may be, we would be alot more peaceful, noone would want war. I would hope for this. War only benifits the rich, never the poor.
Blessings to all those with peace in thier hearts.
I am sorry for those who are suffering, if i could stop it i would, i don't know what to do.

I have to agree with Goerge, Rice has no business in Greece if its got anything to do with WAR. We in Australia have forces in Iraq, even though the large majority of the people disagree with them being there. I cannot believe the Bush government thinks people outside the states share his views.
The beauty of the Greek people is they have the passion and understand history to stand up and send a strong message to their own government and US governments showing anger and dissaproaval of the war. Its a shame we Australians cannot do the same thing here and voice our opinion.
As for peace in Ankara I would suggest Turkey clean up their own garden before looking at their neighbours.

Peter wrote:

I have to agree with Goerge, Rice has no business in Greece if its got anything to do with WAR. We in Australia have forces in Iraq, even though the large majority of the people disagree with them being there. I cannot believe the Bush government thinks people outside the states share his views.
The beauty of the Greek people is they have the passion and understand history to stand up and send a strong message to their own government and US governments showing anger and dissaproaval of the war. Its a shame we Australians cannot do the same thing here and voice our opinion.
As for peace in Ankara I would suggest Turkey clean up their own garden before looking at their neighbours.

Was it not Turkey who rejected US miltary troops to enter IRAK through Turkey? Turkey certainly doesnt want war either,we dont support it in any way! But The hatred against the US by the Greeks is not just about IRAK!Lets be clear about that! If you dig deeper you will know that they are angry at the US because of the relationships with Turkey. Greece cannot stand any country being in relations with Turkey! Just read the forums in this site you will see.And keep in mind that Turkey is spending time and money helping the people in need in IRAK. I dont disagree with you for being against war,but instead of crying over spilt milk,do something to support the innocent people in IRAK.We are!

Peace wrote:

<quoted text> Was it not Turkey who rejected US miltary troops to enter IRAK through Turkey? Turkey certainly doesnt want war either,we dont support it in any way! But The hatred against the US by the Greeks is not just about IRAK!Lets be clear about that! If you dig deeper you will know that they are angry at the US because of the relationships with Turkey. Greece cannot stand any country being in relations with Turkey! Just read the forums in this site you will see.And keep in mind that Turkey is spending time and money helping the people in need in IRAK. I dont disagree with you for being against war,but instead of crying over spilt milk,do something to support the innocent people in IRAK.We are!

HEY nice talking to a peaceful turk but ur information is not accurate, greek people offered a great deal of money, food, clothing,nursery for the children etc and also the greek orthodox church contributed by arhiepiskopos christodoulos, did u know these facts before posting? as for the us ur right that we recent them 'cause their dirty politics have caused numerous problems in our country and around the world also and beeing a peaceful person as ur name states please don't defend them either!!!

anna wrote:

<quoted text>
HEY nice talking to a peaceful turk but ur information is not accurate, greek people offered a great deal of money, food, clothing,nursery for the children etc and also the greek orthodox church contributed by arhiepiskopos christodoulos, did u know these facts before posting? as for the us ur right that we recent them 'cause their dirty politics have caused numerous problems in our country and around the world also and beeing a peaceful person as ur name states please don't defend them either!!!

Anna,
what makes you thnk that most Turks are not peaceful?
Is it all that unfounded Greek propoganda at schools that educated you and the likes of you..
you`ll be surprised to learn that we are not fed any garbage like that for any country in the world...you have hell of a lot to learn about us girl!

Ali Turkoglu wrote:

<quoted text>
Anna,
what makes you thnk that most Turks are not peaceful?
Is it all that unfounded Greek propoganda at schools that educated you and the likes of you..
you`ll be surprised to learn that we are not fed any garbage like that for any country in the world...you have hell of a lot to learn about us girl!

i never said that all turks are lovewarriors, please do not put YOUR words into my mouth and i by all means i like the name "peace" that our co-writer used and i didn't put it ironiclly as for the "garbage" thing ur wrong that that turkish schools teach the turkish children to love the greeks i know that the "garbage" they feed them is that lesvos, samos etc are turkish islands so don't pretend to be the perfect or unmistaken ones 'cause ur not

anna wrote:

<quoted text>
i never said that all turks are lovewarriors, please do not put YOUR words into my mouth and i by all means i like the name "peace" that our co-writer used and i didn't put it ironiclly as for the "garbage" thing ur wrong that that turkish schools teach the turkish children to love the greeks i know that the "garbage" they feed them is that lesvos, samos etc are turkish islands so don't pretend to be the perfect or unmistaken ones 'cause ur not

Dear Anna,,,
we have no designs over any territory of Greece...period..(although Kavala would be a nice prize!!!,joking of course!)
Evry country glorifies its history by covering over the failures and emphasising victories,so that is all we learn,like the Ottoman Empire which ruled most of the then known civilised world inc;luding Greece
over 5 centuries and therefore we have affinity for all these places....but we also know that the past is simply PAST! and as most ,we are also trying to survive the present!!!hope this will put your mind at rest along with your countrymen and women!
rgds
a.t.

Ali Turkoglu wrote:

<quoted text>
Anna,
what makes you thnk that most Turks are not peaceful?
Is it all that unfounded Greek propoganda at schools that educated you and the likes of you..
you`ll be surprised to learn that we are not fed any garbage like that for any country in the world...you have hell of a lot to learn about us girl!

Please answer me this: Is it true or not that the school book for history states "we crushed greeks" (I have a copy of one) and things like this and was recently changed in the attempt for Turkey entry into the EU? Is it true that you have a custom in Smyrna re-enacting the push of Greeks in the Sea?(which stopped for a couple of years after the mutual help during the Earthquakes)

Peace wrote:

<quoted text> Was it not Turkey who rejected US miltary troops to enter IRAK through Turkey? Turkey certainly doesnt want war either,we dont support it in any way! But The hatred against the US by the Greeks is not just about IRAK!Lets be clear about that! If you dig deeper you will know that they are angry at the US because of the relationships with Turkey. Greece cannot stand any country being in relations with Turkey! Just read the forums in this site you will see.And keep in mind that Turkey is spending time and money helping the people in need in IRAK. I dont disagree with you for being against war,but instead of crying over spilt milk,do something to support the innocent people in IRAK.We are!

Turkey rejected help to the US for the Iraq campaign because it could not extract 25 billion dollars the Turkish Prime Minister asked. Us was offering 19. So it was not an ethical denial for the good of Iraq. I also have to remind you that in August the Turkish government asked the US for the right to operate in Northern Iraq for "cleansing" operations (NOT AGAIN guys!!!)

Nikitaras wrote:

<quoted text>
Please answer me this: Is it true or not that the school book for history states "we crushed greeks" (I have a copy of one) and things like this and was recently changed in the attempt for Turkey entry into the EU? Is it true that you have a custom in Smyrna re-enacting the push of Greeks in the Sea?(which stopped for a couple of years after the mutual help during the Earthquakes)

Nikitaras.,
I shall no longer post profanity to you as there is now need and also apologising for the past dialogue with you when i was a little bit off colour!But remember friends do argue!!
anyway...some answers to your ques;
1-of course we do have the term as you say in our school books...i do not know if this is still the curricilum but certainly in our time it was there...
this was ,bringing my point back about" glorifying the past "etc...we also know that same practice also takes place in Greece...the main issue with the Greeks was the fact that they with the initiation of the British and The French invaded parts of Turkey under the pretext of Greater Hellen,and instigated heavy atrocities over the civil population,once the Brits and the French realised that they were never gonna win this war on Turkish territory,they puled their support hence the collapse of this dream by the Greeks in Anatolia...since this was a relatively recent history,not easy to forget,hence the enmity...
neverthless,i know for fact that we have to change as well as Grece has to...we ,i feel are more prone to change-as our main nationalistic character is adabtablitiy to the environment and the trends of the times,but not your countrymen,although there is a considerable thaw in our relationhips when compared with the recent past...Things are changing for the better as there is also a trend to change boooks too on our part...
2-your second question is lesss of a problem as each and every city-after independence-has a date on the calender for the same...Greeks are not particularly targeted here but any country that invaded Turkey after the WW1...
hope i answered your questions in an unbiased and honest way..
rgds
a.t.

Nikitaras wrote:

<quoted text>
Turkey rejected help to the US for the Iraq campaign because it could not extract 25 billion dollars the Turkish Prime Minister asked. Us was offering 19. So it was not an ethical denial for the good of Iraq. I also have to remind you that in August the Turkish government asked the US for the right to operate in Northern Iraq for "cleansing" operations (NOT AGAIN guys!!!)

Nikitaras,
some other points to ponder here..
no power in Turkey would change what the parliament decided....it was not a matter for money as a year later Turkey even rejected 8 Billion dollars of US aid as there was no need for it and this had created some probs at the US senate as they did not know what to do with this unexpected riches(!)
therfore the decision was not...repeat was not financial but one on humanitarian grounds...my personal opinion was that the USA should have been given the green light,.as this may have shortened the war and maybe the whole thing would have been wrapped up by now...but not to be.

Turkish Govt. only communicated with the US,not asked them as you put it as we do not take any orders from anybody ...but we do have a duty on humanitarian grounds as, if this Turkish operation would create more problems for the newly appointed Iraqi govt,then we would have defeated the whole object of the move;the creation of a stable Iraq...
hope i clearified some points here.
rgds
a.t.

Ali Turkoglu wrote:

<quoted text>
Nikitaras,
some other points to ponder here..
no power in Turkey would change what the parliament decided....it was not a matter for money as a year later Turkey even rejected 8 Billion dollars of US aid as there was no need for it and this had created some probs at the US senate as they did not know what to do with this unexpected riches(!)
therfore the decision was not...repeat was not financial but one on humanitarian grounds...my personal opinion was that the USA should have been given the green light,.as this may have shortened the war and maybe the whole thing would have been wrapped up by now...but not to be.
Turkish Govt. only communicated with the US,not asked them as you put it as we do not take any orders from anybody ...but we do have a duty on humanitarian grounds as, if this Turkish operation would create more problems for the newly appointed Iraqi govt,then we would have defeated the whole object of the move;the creation of a stable Iraq...
hope i clearified some points here.
rgds
a.t.

Come on it is common knwledge that Turkey wanted payback from the US and that this is the reason they refused to let troops on Turkish soil. Do not fool yourselves that this was done on humanitarian reasons. On the other hand I have to say that I admire (really do) turkish foreign policy that is focused and demanding (even if the claims are not justified). You see in foreign policy there is no good or evil, ethical or unethical (it is tought on all political sciences courses), there is just what you give, what you get, what you demand and how much power you have to impose your terms on the grounds of your national interests. Turkey has shown that when it comes to diplomacy is very persuasive (has almost convinced some people on outrageous things). I think the only one that is better than you when it comes to diplomacy is Britain, not even the USA.

irene wrote:

i can only sympathize so much with Peace (Ankara, Turkey)
I feel much the same way that George dellaportas from cleveland does and i live in america.
I am trying to leave, i pay so much taxes i have no money left.
Mr Bush is only part of the war problem, you have to understand America is now run by elitist Corporations, like Monsanto, and Big pharmecuticals. They are destroying the once free america. Our constitution is being trashed.
HOwever, my intentions are to eventually leave, because I am frightened to live here, not by terrorists, but by my own government. There are many people in America who never wanted war. Many people here never wanted any of this. I am ashamed to live here. America shouldn't have to terrorize another country for oil, but this is a financial interest for Bush. We have technology for other sources of energy and i'm making no reference to nuclear, because nuclear is a no win situation for everyone, noone should use nuclear energy.
It's the American corporations, pharmecuticals, and agribiz that are responsible for these outcomes at least that is what i believe. I don't care what country you are in, you never get the whole truth, media is too easy for any government to manipulate.
I think if we were one world, and respected others for thier beliefs, whatever they may be, we would be alot more peaceful, noone would want war. I would hope for this. War only benifits the rich, never the poor.
Blessings to all those with peace in thier hearts.
I am sorry for those who are suffering, if i could stop it i would, i don't know what to do.

Irene...
now i cannot deal with your emotions here on this forum girl!
dont start going all sentimental on us...
you are ok in the USA,at least you can say what you want to say...
here in the UK,THEY TAX US ACCORDING TO HOW MUCH WE TALK!
so stay there girl and keep telling us the news!
love
a.t.

Nikitaras wrote:

<quoted text>
Come on it is common knwledge that Turkey wanted payback from the US and that this is the reason they refused to let troops on Turkish soil. Do not fool yourselves that this was done on humanitarian reasons. On the other hand I have to say that I admire (really do) turkish foreign policy that is focused and demanding (even if the claims are not justified). You see in foreign policy there is no good or evil, ethical or unethical (it is tought on all political sciences courses), there is just what you give, what you get, what you demand and how much power you have to impose your terms on the grounds of your national interests. Turkey has shown that when it comes to diplomacy is very persuasive (has almost convinced some people on outrageous things). I think the only one that is better than you when it comes to diplomacy is Britain, not even the USA.

Mr N.
ok we take all the credit!

Ali Turkoglu wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear Anna,,,
we have no designs over any territory of Greece...period..(although Kavala would be a nice prize!!!,joking of course!)
Evry country glorifies its history by covering over the failures and emphasising victories,so that is all we learn,like the Ottoman Empire which ruled most of the then known civilised world inc;luding Greece
over 5 centuries and therefore we have affinity for all these places....but we also know that the past is simply PAST! and as most ,we are also trying to survive the present!!!hope this will put your mind at rest along with your countrymen and women!
rgds
a.t.

dear ali i wish the powerful generals of Turkey thought like you! i really do like the common turkish people but it's really annoying seeing the tv news everyday talking about our national airspace's violations by the turkish military plains and also i am really disappointed in seeing the turkish generals talking about the "grey zones" in the aegean we are just a country that wants to live in peace with Turkey , how would u feel if our army talked about "grey zones" inside Turkey? honestly as a turkish citizen how would u feel?

anna

the FIR line which greece imposing is simply not
recognised by Turks because if we agree the AEGEAN
sea would be a greek lake ...

we shall fly in the international air corridors
and if you chase our planes and provoke dogfights
we shall bring your planes down , that simple.

Greeks should be more peaceful and not provoke
nor claim the whole aegean as private property...

anna wrote:

<quoted text>
dear ali i wish the powerful generals of Turkey thought like you! i really do like the common turkish people but it's really annoying seeing the tv news everyday talking about our national airspace's violations by the turkish military plains and also i am really disappointed in seeing the turkish generals talking about the "grey zones" in the aegean we are just a country that wants to live in peace with Turkey , how would u feel if our army talked about "grey zones" inside Turkey? honestly as a turkish citizen how would u feel?

Righteous wrote:

anna
the FIR line which greece imposing is simply not
recognised by Turks because if we agree the AEGEAN
sea would be a greek lake ...
we shall fly in the international air corridors
and if you chase our planes and provoke dogfights
we shall bring your planes down , that simple.
Greeks should be more peaceful and not provoke
nor claim the whole aegean as private property...
<quoted text>

dear righteous the problem is not when u fly in international air corridors cause it's legal and our plains won't chase u out, the problem is that most of the times u fly in greek airspace fully armed as if u were in a war! with actions like these u don't promote peace and stability, if u put ur place in the position of a greek habitant of the samos island u wouldn't really feel very safe seeing the turkish military plains fly over ur head all the time would u?

Righteous wrote:

anna
the FIR line which greece imposing is simply not
recognised by Turks because if we agree the AEGEAN
sea would be a greek lake ...
we shall fly in the international air corridors
and if you chase our planes and provoke dogfights
we shall bring your planes down , that simple.
Greeks should be more peaceful and not provoke
nor claim the whole aegean as private property...
<quoted text>

I do not know if you noticed changes after the End of World War but the Aegean IS a Greek "Lake" and shall remain so no matter what fanatics want you to believe. You now you shall be forced to abandon these tactics condemened by ALL civilised nations or never enter EU (even if you do not want to, your government does.) As for the dog fights there are some very interesting statistics on the Turkish fighters prowess in Greek Turkish dog fights that shows Turkish fighters ALWAYS heading back after an intercept. That should tell you a lot. As we say in Greek and as it concerns the Aegean "Molon Lave" that mean "Come and get it"