Commuter-rail panel does double-take on Lakeland's impact

We should stop caring about us old farts. This is a legacy project for our children and theirs. It's a chance to do something in Florida that is not selfish. Florida has historically been a loser/cheater state where all the nations riff-raff come to development, ponzi, maybe gambling soon. That is not a good culture for the state. We are populated enough to start thinking about the future, not how some sidewider is going to make me and my country meaningful...in my mind.

We talk about environment, green space, no off-shore drilling, but we can't find out way out of the legislator. Let's get our act together for our youth. Maybe then we can leave this earth knowing we did something good for others in our community.

Sadly, the millions just spent to create a long term 'Vision' for the development of Central Florida now seem to have been wasted. Lake County and Lakeland participated in this thousand person effort.

Part of the work involved defining how this part of Florida should go forward, and people agreed that we need to create transportation corridors offering many ways of moving people around. That includes commuter rail.

I went to a number of these meetings. Everyone supported the ideas. If there was a major problem, why did no one point it out before all the money was spent buying land, designing a system and so on?

The alternative to this corridor approach - continuing as we have with more and more paved roadways - was uninformly rejected by everyone. I guess no one who attended these meetings is involved in Lakeland's 'Main Street', or is a Florida Legislator.

Wow. What a great idea to keep extending it. How could Lakeland complain if they get a commuter rail that runs them to either Tampa or Orlando?

I suggest to pay back all this work that Lakeland is now tanking (after they have been leading the commission all along for years) - put tolls at the ramps to I-4 all through Polk County. Let their citizen's pay back the money they wasted every time they continue to overcrowd the only major artery across central Florida.

Reading the article below gave me the urge to remind everyone of the original price tag for Commuter Rail. It was $473.5 million. That was less than two years ago. Now, the estimated cost is $1.2 billion!

Already,$41 million has been spent. As the article states, another $52 million is slated to be spent this year even with the legislature's recent action. When will these people learn?!

To Opportunity Tax,

Well said, the future is what is important now. Give the leaders a chance to get more together on it.

To All Bloggers,

A lot has happened in a weeks time. Our leaders will being getting together on this. The bigger picture has been seen and the staking of the future have been laid in place.
Just on Thursday Tri-Rail ridership has set another record. A record that every citizen of Florida should now be proud of.

The powers that be are at work. I personally have gotten more involved in a relationship with Tri-Rail. I have used every contact I have to show the Vision of Florida and who we intend to be. One of our Palm Beach County Comissioner's Jeff Koon is stepping up to the plate in South Florida. Mr. Mica is clearly stepping up to the plate, & soon Winter Haven & Lakeland will be brought together with South Florida.

To 2 friends in Winter Haven. One of you is getting your wish. One of you has to do the right thing by your community and help bring us together.

The Vision of the Past for Florida's future are coming to be. Such men as Henry Flagler(Founder of the F.E.C. RR) & Walt Disney (The Man) knew long before their time this day would come.

Sorry I couldn't be reached. Phone problem. This is very encouraging, and certainly we want commuter rail to work for everyone. But the 4-train issue continues be used disingenuously, as Jay pointed out. If CSX or the state imposed an enforceable cap of 4 trains, you would likely see much less opposition here. But CSX won't commit to any such limits on traffic. That's because it's not 4 trains. If it's really 4 trains, commit to it in writing with meaningful penalties. If not, stop saying 4 trains because it contributes to the sense of this not being above board.

This deal, as currently constructed, takes Florida's two main freight rail highways and consolidates them into one, which runs through the heart of our redeveloped downtown. This will reset transportation patterns for a generation or longer, entirely to Lakeland's detriment. And it uses our tax dollars to do it. This is not complaint, it's a fact. Let's work together to make this fact less harmful. We have suggestions we'd love to discuss.

Seems the folks in Orlando continue to only think of themselves...the 21 trains now running through Orlando will soon be running through downtown Lakeland in addition to those already there(we already see coal trains headed to the power plant in Orlando)...a commuter rail system is a great idea but we need to put one in place that will see us into the next century not an extension of present out moded rail that is totally dependent on expensive diesl fuel and not one tied to taxpayer money of any kind....everyone in Central Florida needs to get together on a plan for the whole area and not just jump on an opportunity that really makes no sense and will most certainly harm several areas...if the rail yard is such a great thing, why isn't Orlando fighting to hang on to the Taft yard and encouraging CSX to build a smaller one elsewhere so the impact is spread out....let's be real folks!!!

Ms. Townsend, with all due respect, how many people of your Lakeland rely on the jobs and economy Orlando generates so they can continue living in Lakeland?

Personally, all of this could have been avoided had the high-speed rail authority been allowed to continue, but thanks to just this sort of short-sightedness and complaining about NOW vs. the FUTURE, it was repealed with campaigning from our own governor at the time (Bush).

To Tawny Olore, FDOT

I wanted to post to you that South Florida has an issue coming on Tri-Rail. The FDOT needs to keep behind Tri-Rail as it is a clear flagship of Commuter Rail in Florida.

I also wanted to post one more thing to all blogger's,

The money that has been spent now is an investment. One we should not be turning our backs on now. Does it make sense, ever, to turn your back on an investment? Would you do that in your personal life?

My feeling is this is the line of thought, why would the citizens of Florida turn their back on an investment for all Florida Communities.

Jim Duffy wrote:

Reading the article below gave me the urge to remind everyone of the original price tag for Commuter Rail. It was $473.5 million. That was less than two years ago. Now, the estimated cost is $1.2 billion!
Already,$41 million has been spent. As the article states, another $52 million is slated to be spent this year even with the legislature's recent action. When will these people learn?!

Your correct; what started out to be a simple why of connecting the airport to the tourist district has become a monster of a project. Personally, I think just having a elevated people mover system, such as the one in Las Vegas, was the appropriate plan to focus on. I also feel that in time, other communities, when they were ready to commit, would have built connector spurs to the east-west line.
However, this issue has become a much larger concern because of the freight moving potential of rail corridors around the state. That is what FDOT’s Tawny Olore is hinting too by saying “the future of rail in Florida.” It is not so much about moving people, as it is creating connections between the Sea and Airports with rail corridors. That is why the cost is growing and so is speculator/investor interest.
Eventually, we will move forward in building these corridors. The questions that remain however, is who is going to own and control these corridors and more importantly, benefit from the tax revenue?

Julie Townsend wrote:

Sorry I couldn't be reached. Phone problem. This is very encouraging, and certainly we want commuter rail to work for everyone. But the 4-train issue continues be used disingenuously, as Jay pointed out. If CSX or the state imposed an enforceable cap of 4 trains, you would likely see much less opposition here. But CSX won't commit to any such limits on traffic. That's because it's not 4 trains. If it's really 4 trains, commit to it in writing with meaningful penalties. If not, stop saying 4 trains because it contributes to the sense of this not being above board.
This deal, as currently constructed, takes Florida's two main freight rail highways and consolidates them into one, which runs through the heart of our redeveloped downtown. This will reset transportation patterns for a generation or longer, entirely to Lakeland's detriment. And it uses our tax dollars to do it. This is not complaint, it's a fact. Let's work together to make this fact less harmful. We have suggestions we'd love to discuss.

I understand the reset of traffic patterns. In Lakeland the issue I have is that, more than likely happens anyway with time. The I-4 corridor has grown in just 20 years. Under this ideal I feel its only a matter of time before the reset happens. At the same time, we have the chance now to not have the same mistakes of the past on planning happen again. Really the planning problems of the late 1960s - 1970s.

I love to hear that solutions to help are what your concerned with. We all have the chance to do something right by our community and every citizen.

Uncle Andy wrote:

<quoted text>

However, this issue has become a much larger concern because of the freight moving potential of rail corridors around the state. That is what FDOT’s Tawny Olore is hinting too by saying “the future of rail in Florida.” It is not so much about moving people, as it is creating connections between the Sea and Airports with rail corridors. That is why the cost is growing and so is speculator/investor interest.
Eventually, we will move forward in building these corridors. The questions that remain however, is who is going to own and control these corridors and more importantly, benefit from the tax revenue?

I don't think you could be more right on the money.

CSX will be more flexible, as some of their feels on this, come from other issues that our lawmakers are aware of now.

Uncle Andy,

"The questions that remain however, is who is going to own and control these corridors and more importantly, benefit from the tax revenue?"

Tell us your thought's.

Who do you think it should be?

Ms Townsend - with all due respect, the people (and businesses) in Lakeland, at least a huge chunk of them, rely on jobs in the Orlando and Tampa areas, and are a huge reason I-4 is all clogged up in the first place. I would vote to end high-speed rail, if Lakeland would agree to close off the exits to/from Lakeland and I-4. Then you folks can keep your peaceful existence, and the rest of us can have a little less traffic moving across the State. Deal?

And here is the other question of the day. This high speed rail project has been studied, even by Lakeland as far back that I know of as 1996 to alleviate the traffic pain between Lakeland and Hillsborough. It was targeted in high focus beginning in the year 2000 as something that would eventually hit the ballots for the citizens to vote on. It was voted on and passed by Floridians. The net of this is that - IT HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME BY LAKELAND THAT THIS WAS COMING...far before 2002. So - why was Lakeland soooo short-sighted that they began investing in reguvenating the downtown area that this line would have to come through to materialize? Why did the leaders of Lakeland not plan for this from the outset when their reguvenation group started to form back in 2001 - 2002. The drive for high speed rail studies had already been in play at least 6 - 7 years by then that I can pull up on the web, yet you folks didn't think to plan for this accordingly???!!!! It seems to me you City leaders were very, very short sighted and negligent to your citizens, and to the broader citizens of Florida. You should have taken a page out of the books of many progressive cities and planned your reguvenation efforts to maximize high speed rail coming in - to welcome it to drive commerce and visitors to the area (aka that drives revenue if you are not familiar with this concept). Short - Short - Short sighted planning on your folks part.

Julie Townsend wrote:

Sorry I couldn't be reached. Phone problem. This is very encouraging, and certainly we want commuter rail to work for everyone. But the 4-train issue continues be used disingenuously, as Jay pointed out. If CSX or the state imposed an enforceable cap of 4 trains, you would likely see much less opposition here. But CSX won't commit to any such limits on traffic. That's because it's not 4 trains. If it's really 4 trains, commit to it in writing with meaningful penalties. If not, stop saying 4 trains because it contributes to the sense of this not being above board.
This deal, as currently constructed, takes Florida's two main freight rail highways and consolidates them into one, which runs through the heart of our redeveloped downtown. This will reset transportation patterns for a generation or longer, entirely to Lakeland's detriment. And it uses our tax dollars to do it. This is not complaint, it's a fact. Let's work together to make this fact less harmful. We have suggestions we'd love to discuss.

Jim Duffy wrote:

Reading the article below gave me the urge to remind everyone of the original price tag for Commuter Rail. It was $473.5 million. That was less than two years ago. Now, the estimated cost is $1.2 billion!
Already,$41 million has been spent. As the article states, another $52 million is slated to be spent this year even with the legislature's recent action. When will these people learn?!

That's interesting, gas has gone from 60$ in Jan '06 to 125$ today. Very similar increase.

So how much longer do we wait to realize that our happy motoring car culture can't continue forever? How many more billions are we going to throw down the toilet of further surburan development?

Here are some facts folks, there are a minimum of eight freight and four Amtrak trains through the Orlando area everyday of the week. Aside from the usual twelve trains, on some days it can be as many as twenty or more. Some trains like rock trains and coal trains don't run everyday. Some of those freight trains will still have to come to Orlando. Now, taking away some of those freight trains will increase truck traffic from Lakeland to Orlando. But, nobody is telling us that are they? And please, have some patience with freight trains, for one example a single coal train takes anywhere from 200 to 300 trucks off the roads. And, they also bring many of the goods we use daily.

a train will not stop people from driving. The trains only go so far and then you will need a car to go to your destination. PORK BARREL POLITICS is what this project is. It will create another agency that will be a burden on the taxpayers. Rail will fall into disrepair just like the roadways in Florida. If ORlando wants to build a train from it's airport to disney then do it with disney's and Orange county taxpayers dollars. NOT STATE TAXDOLLARS!!!! I HOPE RAIL FAILS....

This isn't only about 4 additional trains through Lakeland. It's about:
1. The possibility of 40 trains a day through Lakeland and Plant City ( which Glorioso should be concerned about instead of turning a blind eye)
2. Statewide commuter rail. Once the S-line is used as the frieght super highway, there will never be a chance for Tampa to have commuter rail to any city except Tampa.
3. This deal being done in secrecy, by Jeb Bush and not out in the open
4. Several Orlando area officials not wanting this project and saying privately they know it is a bad bill, but afraid to step out of the shadows and do anything about it to protect their taxpayers who rely on them because of threats!!!

It's time we move on. Give up Buddy! Look to Amtrak, it's headed your way!

This is a good idea, Read the New York Times article today. Public Rail transportation use is skyrocketing due to the price of fuel. Denver has set new record highs in use. If this project does not go through when the price fuel is at 3.70 a gallon, then Florida is filled with fools.

Rail will be a GOLD MINE for the rental car industry and disney. You will have 4 rental car agencies at every rail stop. C'mon it only takes an hour to drive from Tampa to Disney.. THis rail project is a BUST for taxpayers. SCRAP RAIL AND START FUNDING SCHOOLS...FIX THE ROADS WE ALREADY HAVE. IF you build it pay for it yourself not with taxpayers dollars. Most of the supporters think rail will solve our traffic problems. Supporters of rail should get a life.. If gas is $10 a gallon then the car rental agency will charge you $30 a gallon if you bring their rental car you rented from the train station to go to your destination back with less gas than what was in it to begin with...RAIL IS PORK BARREL POLITICS AT IT'S BEST.....If taxpayer have to pay for it....I HOPE RAIL FAILS