Gore says transfer to clean energy vital for U.S.

upwithbiofuels wrote:

Something tells me Tina Anne works with EXXON or is in the harem of the king of Saudi Arabia. These aren't little ripples Anne. Everyone is hurting from the price of oil not just here in America but all over the world. The price of your precious crude is causing a lot of people around the world to starve. If you'll check the news (and don't say the media is liberal, I've heard enough to that BS) you'll hear things like teachers are being laid off because its taking more money to keep the school buses going, policemen and firemen are losing their jobs because of the money it takes to buy gas, the jobless rate is soaring in America because of all the extra money now going to the middle east.
Doesn't that make sense to you Anne, as the money goes over there they get rich and we lose our jobs. Quit defending OPEC and BIG OIL and help us solve this crisis.

upwithbiofuels wrote:

I think if America starts producing biofuels then the southeastern US and other areas will produce as much wealth as Saudi Arabia does from polluting FOSSIL FUELS. Of course the big investors will benefit the most but there will be a lot of jobs created and instead of our dollars buying Roll Royces for sheiks in Arabia they will be buying pickups for good ol' boys.

tina anne wrote:

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Meanwhile in many other countries people will be going hungry. Not to mention sections of the southwest would require serious irrigation to bring in the crops your referring to. Biofuels are the to this decade as the solar panels were to the seventies. Something that sounds good but isn't practical enought in the macro.

upwithbiofuels wrote:

Its very clear that all republicans have been brainwashed by BIG OIL'S propaganda. It should be simple enough for a 10 year old to understand. FOSSIL FUELS are NOT limitless, the supply of FOSSIL FUELS will ever so slowly dwindle. As this happens the price will continue on its path to the stars!!!! The world and this country needs its own source of renewable fuel. The technology exists now to produce ethanol from cellulose. Did you hear that. Let me repeat it. The technology exists now to produce ethanol from cellulose. The production will start next year in Georgia. This will be a fuel made in America by Americans. We NEED many more of these plants.

Roy wrote:

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Ethanol is problematic.
When you take resources used for food production, and change that to fuel, you have less food production. We're already seeing that today with the existing ethanol subsidies.
More of that strategy is not a solution.

Daniel wrote:

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You can use all kinds of alternative fuels. not just corn. natural gas, cooking oil, i'm sure you know the list. ethanol is just the start.... why try to sqwash it?

Kimbefly wrote:

<quoted text>At this point the main source of useful biofuels is oil and sugar. Oil (vegetable, chicken fat, etc.) can be converted to biodeisel, which powers any diesel engine, and sugar can be converted to ethanol, which can be added to gas for most cars, or used exclusively in a few cars already on the road.
Sugar is necessarily the basis for ethanol - any home brewer knows that - sugar + brewers yeast equals alcohol fermentation. Cellulosic alcohol I believe is a holy grail - everybody is looking, but it is very difficult to find. The trick is to break down cellulose into sugars that can be fermented. Cellulose, or fiber is tough stuff that requires enzymes to break it down (cows do it), but it is difficult to do it cost-effectively for industrial or laboratory purposes.
Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of cellulosic alcohol?

Daniel wrote:

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Very nice post. But, for the 2nd most obesity nation in the world to complain about hunger???? come on.

Kimbefly wrote:

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Thanks.
I don't think we're complaining about hunger (which I agree would be laughable), but we ARE seeing our prices increase dramatically. The rest of the world is having trouble with food supply, which they attribute to the diversion of foodstuffs to biofuels.

Daniel wrote:

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True. My biggest problem with people trying to kill this alternative energy market. I mean batteries is another alternative energy. some solar panels on cars. and so on. not just the"food" alternative energy.
I would agree to limit the amount of food used in the alternative energy. I mean, people gotta eat right? but to try to get rid of it completely........ why? I'm not saying your saying that. but some people on here do.

Kimbefly wrote:

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I'm with you. There's a biodeisel plant locally that uses non-food oils - chicken fat, frier oil, etc., and they supply local companies with fuel. This is not a global solution (there are only so many chickens to process and french fries to eat), but it is a healthy drop in the bucket.
The other alternatives should be chased as hard as is humanly possible. If we were good at harnessing solar power, our troubles would be over, and I think it is within reach. Photovoltaics are currently too expensive for the average Joe (though check out Citizenre.com ).
We should be a lot smarter about collecting water from roofs, composting (and making methane out of great amounts of compost), etc. Peace.

BEAN51 wrote:

The more I think about this,the more confusing it gets.National hysteria! A Pied Piper comes along ,and all follow ,unquestioning.Reminds me in history,a cleric yells"They Are defiling The Holy Land" people all over Europe,young ,old,just start walking to the Holy land.

Kimbefly wrote:

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Please tell me more about the celluosic ethanol plant - I researched this in depth recently and found that most of the plants were not producing yet and were "looking for investors." I read that cellulase (an enzyme that turns cellulose to sugar) was essential to the process, but could not find any for sale. I came to the conclusion that this was so much unicorn spit, but I would be happy to learn that I am wrong.

tina anne wrote:

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Meanwhile in many other countries people will be going hungry. Not to mention sections of the southwest would require serious irrigation to bring in the crops your referring to. Biofuels are the to this decade as the solar panels were to the seventies. Something that sounds good but isn't practical enought in the macro.

Roy wrote:

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Ethanol is problematic.
When you take resources used for food production, and change that to fuel, you have less food production. We're already seeing that today with the existing ethanol subsidies.
More of that strategy is not a solution.

upwithbiofuels wrote:

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Hello Kimbefly,
The plant in Georgia is being built by Range fuels which is a company from Colorado I think.
There are others involved with cellulosic ethanol production too. Another is Iogen from Canada.
Ethanol has somehow gotten a bad name over the last couple of years which I attribute to propaganda from those who stand to lose the most such as OPEC and BIG OIL. The grocery mfg assoc. has already been caught paying $300,000 to a public relations firm to discredit ethanol.
We can do this. Brazil has already done it.

Daniel wrote:

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Why not use all types. You make make fuel out of anything..... even pot.....

upwithbiofuels wrote:

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Its people like you that are a roadblock to progress. The reason people are going hungry is because of the rising price of FOSSIL FUELS all over the globe. It takes FOSSIL FUELS in every step of food production. It takes FOSSIL FUELS for planting the seed, for cultivating and protecting the crops, most fertilizers and pesticides are manufactured from FOSSIL FUELS, for harvesting the crops, for transporting the crop to be processed, packaging the crop, transporting the end product to the grocery store, etc. To make matters worse Tina Anne as all of this FOSSIL FUEL is being burned more CO2 is added to the atmosphere and more dollars leave this nation and go to the middle east.
You must quit using food and hunger as part of your argument against BIOFUELS anyway Tina Anne because the future of BIOFUELS is from biomass as I have tried to explain to you. Ethanol will be produced from forest wastes next year in Georgia. Let me repeat that for Tina Anne. Ethanol will be produced from FOREST WASTES not CORN Tina Anne. Do y'all think she got it that time?

Roy wrote:

<quoted text>
Ethanol is problematic.
When you take resources used for food production, and change that to fuel, you have less food production. We're already seeing that today with the existing ethanol subsidies.
More of that strategy is not a solution.