How far extends the right to free speech?

I know they seldom appear, but there are people that actually have less class and ethical standing than those from Grovetuckey (aka Grove City); and those people are from this church!

Have they no shame? There are plenty of places to make a statement and funerals shouldn't be one of them. I know one thing, if they get arrested and do time, I know people with life sentences like "Kareem" from Cleveland and "Jim Bob" from Grovetuckey will remember their stands against gay sex! Their anuses will never be safe!

Fred Phelps and his weird brood need to crawl back under their rock but unfortunately the First Amendment protects their right to be repellent. The Bill of Rights has been picked away at by the courts and the government enough already, especially the Fourth and the Fifth (the Second seems to be holding up). To start adding exceptions to the First Amendment is the first step towards tyranny and thought control.

C) 9/7/2010 HNNEWS Hudson Net Newswires (Redistribution Cleared with HNNEWS Credit)
Westboro Baptist Church Case Founded On Big "Lie"

by Thurman Boyd Hayes

Right now the attorneys for the Westboro Baptist Church are arguing in our nation's highest court to defend their right to free speech. I support their right to free speech, however, I cannot, will not and never will support their right to harass the families of our slain war dead over an issue which on its face is a complete and demonstrable lie. The lie in this case is the very thing that the Westboro Baptist Church is in the Supreme Court arguing over the right to speak. That lie, that obvious and blatant falsehood, that despicable and obscene fraud, with which they have tortured numerous families across the country in their screeching, banshee like voices, and pathetic placards, is proof that these people are not rational in the least and are certainly driven by sheer, mindless hatred. Westboro Baptist Church's message is that we have slain soldiers because of abortion and homosexuality in America. They base this on passages from the Old Testament where God says he will punish the Israel for a variety of sins if they commit them.

I am not going to argue the merits of their interpretation, the existence of God or the historical accuracy of the Biblical account. I'm just going by the obvious historical facts and the claims that the Westboro Baptist Church itself has made. They show up at these funerals claiming that we should "Thank God for Dead Soldiers". Fine. When have we not had dead soldiers from a war? The answer is obvious - we have always had our American dead from any conflict that we've significantly engaged in. In fact, from the war in Viet Nam, the U.S. KIA numbers were around some 58,000 at a time when homosexuality was not in as much prominence as it is now, while just in 1990, during the original Gulf War, the U.S. lost only a few service people. Meanwhile, total American casualties from the war which founded this nation were 5 times higher than they are now from the current wars over which the Westboro Baptist Church is arguing that the casualties are caused by a sinful nation condoning homosexuality. Those were the days of the Founding Fathers that the Church believes were when the nation was closer to God and yet the casualties were 5 times greater - 25,000 versus the current 4,000+. The American loses from the Civil War were even more staggering - over a half a million total, and yet homosexuality was a crime in all states of the Union and the Confederacy.

The facts are that the Westboro Baptist Church is fighting for the right, in the nation's highest court, to continue torturing grieving American families with one of the greatest bold faced lies ever concocted. A lie that they have only been able to get away with because no one has had the guts and the brains to point out its obvious idiocy and stand-up to them and call them the liars that they are. For the sake of the families that have been subjected to their disgusting deceit, and the memories of their loved ones who gave the ultimate sacrifice, let me then be the first to say that the Westboro Baptist Church's message is a filthy lie and for that, all the members responsible should be damned...

Fred Phelps has the right to spew his misguided venom all he wants. He has carefully studied the law and knows exactly where the line is. Then he walks right up to it and dares somebody to do something. That's how he draws attention to himself.

Do you want to know how you handle somebody like Phelps? Lose it.

It's called "not guilty by reason of temporary insanity". It's a vaible defense for taking a machete to Phelps and his mindless minions.

I'm not saying that violence is the proper way to handle a disagreement with somebody, but when Phelps exploits the constitution so he can harass the family of a fallen soldier in order to amplify his message of hate, there's no civilized way to respond.

There's no jury in the country who would convict Albert Snyder if the harassment from Phelps finally pushed him over the edge and when you choose to exercise your first amendment rights to express a hateful message that stirs up powerful emotions you run the risk of facing violent consequences that most Americans would find justifiable.

Freedom of Speech doesn't come without consequences. That's a lesson somebody needs to teach Mr. Phelps. Throw the "N' word around in the wrong crowd and there's a good chance you'll be spitting your teeth into a plastic cup, call a woman a whore when her burly husband is nearby and see if you don't end up in a chokehold. Tell the father of a KIA Marine that God punished him for being a 'fag'-lover and that father might come after you with an axe handle. Then it's up to a jury to decide whether or not the consequences were reasonable.

This case seems to be similar to a U.S. Supreme Court case from years ago when a group of neo-nazis marched through the largely jewish enclave of Skokie, Illinois. The Court upheld the right of the nazis to hold their march despite the reprehensible nature of their speech.

C) 9/7/2010 HNNEWS Hudson Net Newswires (Redistribution Cleared with HNNEWS Credit)
Westboro Baptist Church Case Founded On Big "Lie"
by Thurman Boyd Hayes
Right now the attorneys for the Westboro Baptist Church are arguing in our nation's highest court to defend their right to free speech. I support their right to free speech, however, I cannot, will not and never will support their right to harass the families of our slain war dead over an issue which on its face is a complete and demonstrable lie. The lie in this case is the very thing that the Westboro Baptist Church is in the Supreme Court arguing over the right to speak. That lie, that obvious and blatant falsehood, that despicable and obscene fraud, with which they have tortured numerous families across the country in their screeching, banshee like voices, and pathetic placards, is proof that these people are not rational in the least and are certainly driven by sheer, mindless hatred. Westboro Baptist Church's message is that we have slain soldiers because of abortion and homosexuality in America. They base this on passages from the Old Testament where God says he will punish the Israel for a variety of sins if they commit them.
I am not going to argue the merits of their interpretation, the existence of God or the historical accuracy of the Biblical account. I'm just going by the obvious historical facts and the claims that the Westboro Baptist Church itself has made. They show up at these funerals claiming that we should "Thank God for Dead Soldiers". Fine. When have we not had dead soldiers from a war? The answer is obvious - we have always had our American dead from any conflict that we've significantly engaged in. In fact, from the war in Viet Nam, the U.S. KIA numbers were around some 58,000 at a time when homosexuality was not in as much prominence as it is now, while just in 1990, during the original Gulf War, the U.S. lost only a few service people. Meanwhile, total American casualties from the war which founded this nation were 5 times higher than they are now from the current wars over which the Westboro Baptist Church is arguing that the casualties are caused by a sinful nation condoning homosexuality. Those were the days of the Founding Fathers that the Church believes were when the nation was closer to God and yet the casualties were 5 times greater - 25,000 versus the current 4,000+. The American loses from the Civil War were even more staggering - over a half a million total, and yet homosexuality was a crime in all states of the Union and the Confederacy.
The facts are that the Westboro Baptist Church is fighting for the right, in the nation's highest court, to continue torturing grieving American families with one of the greatest bold faced lies ever concocted. A lie that they have only been able to get away with because no one has had the guts and the brains to point out its obvious idiocy and stand-up to them and call them the liars that they are. For the sake of the families that have been subjected to their disgusting deceit, and the memories of their loved ones who gave the ultimate sacrifice, let me then be the first to say that the Westboro Baptist Church's message is a filthy lie and for that, all the members responsible should be damned...

I do not understand how judges struggle with this. If a person talks trash to a judge during a trial, they are guilty of contempt of court. What is the difference between first-amdenment protection in that instance as opposed to the harm from radiclas like Phelps?

I believe that people have the right to be crude and offensive, but those who are offended have the right to sue those people for damages without the crude people waiving the free speech banner. That seems to be a pretty simple solution to me.

I think protests at ANY funeral are completely out of line & disrespectful. Do those protesters actually believe their actions are Godly? My Christian upbringing is the belief that one should live & act as God would, with compassion & love for all human beings. Their actions contradict those morals completely. However, I do believe in free speech, as obnoxious & cruel as theirs is. I also believe that what goes around, comes around, & one day they will find themselves on the other side facing similar condemnation for their actions.

What happened to acting responsibly and with compasion? People are given the right to Freespeech, but I don't feel that gives people the right to intentional hurt others with their words and hateful emotions. Does Freedom of Speech Trump "unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?"

Looks like God helped Fred to start a "Tea Party Church"

Thankfully, in this country we do have free speech rights. It appears that the Supreme Court is going to find in favor of this pathetic excuse for a church. So be it. Westboro Babtist church members are only human. They will have funerals for their family members, and weddings, and birthday parties in the park and graduations and just general day to day living. Maybe its time for the general population to force feed them some of the bitter pie they've been feeding everyone else.

I'm grateful for all who showed support during the WBC visit on Monday. That said, I have always made the conscious decision to avoid these abominable inbreds much in the same way I step off the sidewalk to avoid stepping in a pile of dog****.

The Supreme Court Justices are cowards. The claim that free speech trumps respect for the dead and privacy to make a "general" point is absurd. This church specifically targeted the soldiers, personally. Their claim was to garner a widespread forum by using sensitive funerals only to broadcast their agenda about homosexuals is false. Why didn't they picket and target that gay NJ college student who committed suicide? Certainly that would get more attention than a soldier's burial.

If this church performed those acts at Arlington ceremonies or during the burial of a statesman or president, the Supreme Court would scream foul, infinitely. Justice Kagen's response that the parent should have obtained a restraint order prior to the funeral is blatantly ridiculous. Deaths of soldiers are not usually planned! Why isn't this church picketing and protesting Catholic church services and papal visits. They harbor the most predatory gays as a tenet of the church.

These protests have nothing to do with free speech, they are targeting honorable soldiers from a "hate" agenda. Oh, that's right, only gays and blacks can use the "targeted hate" card. It really amazes me that Justice Kagen REQUIRES respect as a Justice in court (preventing ALL free speech) but believes no one else in the country deserves it.

Justice Kagen is addressed as Your Honor only by rule and not by honor. US soldier's and veterans EARNED their honor and it is real!

Fred and co. were found guilty in Civil court of incredible doucheness... This should not be a first amendment issue; the government is not trying to oppress his free speech they are simply saying that a jury was convinced his actions were of such ass****ness that he owed the victim $5 million in restitution.

They should be taken out behind a barn & whpped senseless. Tarred & feathered. That would be our free speech back at these cowardly pukes! How many people have been killed in he name of Christ over the last two thousand years?

HNNEWS wrote:

C) 9/7/2010 HNNEWS Hudson Net Newswires (Redistribution Cleared with HNNEWS Credit)
Westboro Baptist Church Case Founded On Big "Lie"
by Thurman Boyd Hayes

Mr. Hayes’ lengthy missive suffers from one major problem: It has nothing to do with the Westboro case.
This issue here isn’t one of lying since any interpretation of the Bible can be construed as true or false, depending on one’s point of view. Rising from the dead? Walking on water? Parting the Red Sea? To any believer, those anecdotes are true; to any atheist,, they’re false, and no court in the land is going to weigh in on any of them, so they are legally moot.

While it’s easy to be outraged by the conduct of the Westboro Baptist Church, limiting or denying their First Amendment right may be more problematic than it appears. Freedom of Speech is a guaranteed right, so in that regard, the WBC has Constitutional protection. But the pressing question in the Snyder/Phelps case is whether the protest of the WBC at Matthew Snyder’s funeral impinged on the family’s privacy. That part is problematic because the demonstration was held in a public space.

In the ruling by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals there was no finding invasion of privacy.
They wrote:“In light of these cases, it is clear that there was no type of “intrusion” under any of the bases that Snyder asserts. First, as to the funeral protest itself, the Phelps did not “intrude” or “pry” upon any private seclusion. The Phelps never intruded upon a private place because their protest occurred at all times in a public place that was designated by the police and located approximately 1,000 feet from the funeral. Further, the Phelps never confronted Snyder, and Snyder admits he could not see the protest. Finally, there was no intrusion because the evidence is undisputed that the church service was never disrupted. The Phelps never entered the church, and they stopped protesting when the church service began. In sum, I would hold the funeral protest did not intrude upon Snyder's seclusion.”
Additionally, the court said:“Furthermore, it was established at trial that Snyder did not actually see the signs until he saw a television program later that day with footage of the Phelps family at his son’s funeral.”

Freedom of speech oftentimes means having to listen to things we’d rather not hear and to which we may take offense, but there are only a very few types of speech that the courts have ruled as unprotected, and they are narrowly tailored. And in the opinion of the Federal Appeals Court which ruled in this case, those types of speech were not involved here.

No one--or, at least, not many--agree with the Phelps’ conduct at these funerals. It’s crude, offensive and insensitive. But its unpopularity doesn’t make it illegal, nor should it.
Other people are offended by the Tea Party, the democrats, the republicans, illegals, Obama, the war, etc., etc., etc....
The list of things that offend people is a never-ending one. Were each of us allowed to ban someone else’s speech based on our own distaste for it, no one would ever be allowed to say anything about anything. Like the Sara Lee commercial says,“Everybody doesn’t like something.”

Albert Snyder’s indignation is understandable, and none of us would feel differently were we in his place. But the cost of placating him, or any one of us as an individual, and risk the loss of the right of free speech for every other American--a right, which ironically, his son ostensibly died defending--is too high a price to pay.

Just think of all the widows and orphans that could have been fed and clothed instead of spending it on protests and travel!(Deuteronomy 10:18) This "Most Hated Family in America" needs to be locked up. Certainly if they showed up at a funeral, a town should have the right to "escort" them into jail.

FREE speech means what is says "free".
IF you pick and choose speech it no longer is FREE SPEECH period.
Get a backbone and live in America bunch of whimps.

MInotBlue wrote:

The Supreme Court Justices are cowards. The claim that free speech trumps respect for the dead and privacy to make a "general" point is absurd. This church specifically targeted the soldiers, personally. Their claim was to garner a widespread forum by using sensitive funerals only to broadcast their agenda about homosexuals is false. Why didn't they picket and target that gay NJ college student who committed suicide? Certainly that would get more attention than a soldier's burial.
If this church performed those acts at Arlington ceremonies or during the burial of a statesman or president, the Supreme Court would scream foul, infinitely. Justice Kagen's response that the parent should have obtained a restraint order prior to the funeral is blatantly ridiculous. Deaths of soldiers are not usually planned! Why isn't this church picketing and protesting Catholic church services and papal visits. They harbor the most predatory gays as a tenet of the church.
These protests have nothing to do with free speech, they are targeting honorable soldiers from a "hate" agenda. Oh, that's right, only gays and blacks can use the "targeted hate" card. It really amazes me that Justice Kagen REQUIRES respect as a Justice in court (preventing ALL free speech) but believes no one else in the country deserves it.
Justice Kagen is addressed as Your Honor only by rule and not by honor. US soldier's and veterans EARNED their honor and it is real!

Nobody has a right to be respected and honored. Nobody. That's something decent people extended to others voluntarily. Fred Phelps and his minions are not decent people. They are sorry excuses for human beings, but the beauty of our country is that the very least of us is afforded protection under the constitution. It's a shame that Fred Phelps is able to exploit this for his purposes but as long as he maintains his distance and conducts his demonstrations from public property there is nothing anybody can do, from a legal capacity, to stop this.

The "hate" being expressed is not toward the soldiers. The "hate" is directed at homosexuals. Phelps is using the soldiers to channel more hatred toward homosexuals.

If you don't like Fred Phelps I would suggest forming a posse, donning some masks and showing up at his next demonstration. Then beat him and his idiot followers senseless and disappear into the night. You can't sit there and demand that the government stay out of your business on one issue and beg them to step in on this one. Fred is working the legal angles. He's taking advantage of the constitution and using it as a marketing tool. Instead of asking the Supreme Court to bend the most sacred of our rights, mete out a little street justice.

That's also the beauty of our system. The authorities are people too. Can you see a cop going out of his way to prevent somebody from punching Fred Phelps in the face? Can you see a prosecutor really busting his hump to convict somebody of assault if Phelps sustained a beating from an angry family outside of a funeral home?

Can you see Fred Phelps and his followers staging too many more protests if they were met with phsyical harm every time they assembled? The judges who refuse to stifle Fred's first amendment rights probably wouldn't mind dismissing a felonious assault charge if somebody stuffed a fist in Fred's mouth. So stop wring your hands and take action.

Another Concerned Citizen wrote:

This case seems to be similar to a U.S. Supreme Court case from years ago when a group of neo-nazis marched through the largely jewish enclave of Skokie, Illinois. The Court upheld the right of the nazis to hold their march despite the reprehensible nature of their speech.

And that is free speech.
Not just speech you and your friends like.