No watermen subsidy

It would be different if the free market system caused this problem but that is not the case. Pollution has caused it and it is not going to come back until local, state, and federal governments stop playing lipservice to it.
The waterman has been hanging on by his bootstraps waiting for the lipservice to stop and for promised and mandated action to be taken.
The Bay will take care of itself and the waterman if the pollution is stopped.

Ken Smith wrote:

It would be different if the free market system caused this problem but that is not the case. Pollution has caused it and it is not going to come back until local, state, and federal governments stop playing lipservice to it.
The waterman has been hanging on by his bootstraps waiting for the lipservice to stop and for promised and mandated action to be taken.
The Bay will take care of itself and the waterman if the pollution is stopped.

Why don't the waterman lobby for a moratorium on building permits for any municipality whose water treatment plants don't measure up to federal standards?

The crab population is decreasing because of Navy submarines using their radar. The noise from submarine radars causes the crabs to die. THe whole thing was explained on TV last night.

Ken Smith wrote:

It would be different if the free market system caused this problem but that is not the case. Pollution has caused it and it is not going to come back until local, state, and federal governments stop playing lipservice to it.
The waterman has been hanging on by his bootstraps waiting for the lipservice to stop and for promised and mandated action to be taken.
The Bay will take care of itself and the waterman if the pollution is stopped.

I beg to differ. The free market system did cause the problem by allowing pollution. Until we add the true cost of all our decision, we will get unintended results for our actions.

I agree with the author, no subsidy.

Hey Ken, Mr. Watermen Assoc. President, cry me a river baby. Too many watermen, taking too many (insert species here), for too many years is the pure definition of overfishing. This didn't happen to the crabs suddenly, it's been a steady decline for almost two decades, starting when the oysters collapsed. Crabs are just another victim in the history of the Chesapeake's watermen. The ecosystem is the real victim and the public now is being blackmailed into paying for it. You watermen saw it coming and you did nothing but increase pressure on the stock. This ain't a disaster, it's stupidity. And I'm tired of bailing out stupid people. Here's my question to you: WHEN ARE THE WATERMEN GOING TO PAY ME BACK FOR HAVING TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY OVERFISHING!

Stop stealing from us wrote:

Hey Ken, Mr. Watermen Assoc. President, cry me a river baby. Too many watermen, taking too many (insert species here), for too many years is the pure definition of overfishing. This didn't happen to the crabs suddenly, it's been a steady decline for almost two decades, starting when the oysters collapsed. Crabs are just another victim in the history of the Chesapeake's watermen. The ecosystem is the real victim and the public now is being blackmailed into paying for it. You watermen saw it coming and you did nothing but increase pressure on the stock. This ain't a disaster, it's stupidity. And I'm tired of bailing out stupid people. Here's my question to you: WHEN ARE THE WATERMEN GOING TO PAY ME BACK FOR HAVING TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY OVERFISHING!

I agree with you. It's been stupid greed that's allowed for a lot of the problem they find themselves in.

If you work the water you're clearly up to par physically and can find other work during this tough time. A subsidy seems a bit silly. I do, however, think watermen need to learn to unionize and get themselves some health benefits and establish a wage. Watermen get the short end of the stick on both of those fronts.

Matt Insley wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you. It's been stupid greed that's allowed for a lot of the problem they find themselves in.
If you work the water you're clearly up to par physically and can find other work during this tough time. A subsidy seems a bit silly. I do, however, think watermen need to learn to unionize and get themselves some health benefits and establish a wage. Watermen get the short end of the stick on both of those fronts.

Watermen are not permitted to buy health insurance?

Scribe wrote:

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Watermen are not permitted to buy health insurance?

Of course they can purchase their own health insurance. That's not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on their lack of unionization.

Having been out on the water for 2 decades, I've got to say that the watermen "probably" brought this on themselves. There were some days you could not motor in a straight line from Hampton to Dare Marina. You had to run a mine field of crab pots and nets. Overfishing is killing our marine life at an unprecedented rate. We've got to stop Omega Protein from scooping up every last swimming menhaden (important forage fish). We've got to stop the crabbers from potting every last crab. It's kind of nuts the way we just allow the commercial fishermen to basically wipe out entire species.

Matt Insley wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you. It's been stupid greed that's allowed for a lot of the problem they find themselves in.
If you work the water you're clearly up to par physically and can find other work during this tough time. A subsidy seems a bit silly. I do, however, think watermen need to learn to unionize and get themselves some health benefits and establish a wage. Watermen get the short end of the stick on both of those fronts.

They might be up to par physically, but changing jobs would usually equate to contruction work, and right now nobody is building and most contruction folks I know are sitting at home hoping they get a phone call so they can go do some work.

Matt Insley wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course they can purchase their own health insurance. That's not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on their lack of unionization.

WHy do they need a union? So they can have another boss? Most unions are corrupt.

Wondering wrote:

<quoted text>
They might be up to par physically, but changing jobs would usually equate to contruction work, and right now nobody is building and most contruction folks I know are sitting at home hoping they get a phone call so they can go do some work.

So do we subsidize the construction worker too? And how long should the watermen receive checks for not working? Until the crab population rebounds? How long will that take?

First of all, the waterman would much rather work than be compensated and who knows if this is just a temporary situation or not. They may never crab again during these months. In most lines of work if your company goes out of business or you are layed off or whatever---you can find another job of some sort doing what you know how to do. There is only ONE Chesapeake Bay.

Old Hippie wrote:

The crab population is decreasing because of Navy submarines using their radar. The noise from submarine radars causes the crabs to die. THe whole thing was explained on TV last night.

As an Obama Marxist, you simply hate and blame the military. Take another toke and go back to sleep.

ms p-town wrote:

First of all, the waterman would much rather work than be compensated and who knows if this is just a temporary situation or not. They may never crab again during these months. In most lines of work if your company goes out of business or you are layed off or whatever---you can find another job of some sort doing what you know how to do. There is only ONE Chesapeake Bay.

And if you can't get a job doing what you know how to do you get job training and learn to do something else. You don't just sit in a corner and wait for the tax payer to write you check

Matt Insley wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course they can purchase their own health insurance. That's not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on their lack of unionization.

"...unionize and get themselves some health benefits.."

Matt Insley wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course they can purchase their own health insurance. That's not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on their lack of unionization.

A Republican calling for a union? Reagan is spinning in his grave. The free market fixes all - eventually.

What these watermen should really do is harvest less and charge a higher price. Supply and demand...

Capitalist wrote:

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A Republican calling for a union? Reagan is spinning in his grave. The free market fixes all - eventually.
What these watermen should really do is harvest less and charge a higher price. Supply and demand...

Usually the watermen sell their product to a buyer. Unfortunately the buyer would set the price and not the watermen.

Matt Insley wrote:

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Usually the watermen sell their product to a buyer. Unfortunately the buyer would set the price and not the watermen.

Doesn't matter. They should accept an industry wide moratorium and agree to only sell half as many as they usually do to the buyer. It would drive the prices up exponentially. As long as they all did it. It's a consortium. Legal as long as they don't collude to fix prices.

Everyone who loves crab would pay more if necessary.

Matt Insley wrote:

<quoted text>
Usually the watermen sell their product to a buyer. Unfortunately the buyer would set the price and not the watermen.

"I would prefer an honest expression of uncertainty to misguided certitude." -- George Will